Xingyiquan Addict 5 Elements Fist... observation of a Ming Jen

[Xue Sheng]

Basic philosophy of Xingyiquan: “I’m going to hit you… hard.”

Xingyiquan is not a popular Internal Chinese martial arts style these days because it does not look pretty, it tends to be aggressive and about fighting and it will hurt to train it if you are training properly

Xingyiquan is aggressive; attack is attack and defense is attack. One of my teachers said “Xingyi doesn’t back up” but in reality there are parts of the forms that do go backwards, however in true Xingyiquan style those also attack. Xingyiquan can cover distances rather quickly but it is an in close fighting style. Xingyiquan is direct and gives the appearance of only moving in a straight line but it also angles and turns on a dime and there are circles in it as well. In Xingyiquan the idea is to end a fight with only one punch and training Santi Shi and applying that to the forms is part of training for that. However if one punch does not work they Xingyiquan can and will be relentless in attack.

Like many Chinese Martial Arts styles Xingyiquan forms can have multiple applications and these are only a few of the applications found in Xingyiquan Wuxingquan

Piquan is a block, a back fist, a palm strike, a grab, a shoulder dislocating take down, and a kick to the knee

Zuanquan is a block, a trap, an uppercut, and a reverse fist

Bengquan, possibly the simplest to understand and the most direct, but getting the power right is possibly more complicated (IMO) or it could be my lack of experience too. Bengquan is a straight punch along the lines of Bruce Lee’s one inch punch

Paoquan can be at least 2 different blocks, a straight bunch and a grab that could lead to a knee strike

Bengquan is block, a trap, a punch to the ribs, and a take down

There are also kicks and misdirection and redirections in Xingyiquan as well

This all of course is just my opinion and I know there are other applications to these forms but I consider myself a beginner at Xingyiquan so take this for what it is worth.

Xing Yi Quan ( Hsing-I, 河北形意拳 ) 5 Elements and Linking form

 

[mograph]

I love that one. The exploding spring?

 

[oaktree]

Basic philosophy of Xingyiquan: “I’m going to hit you… hard.”

Yep going thru you like a truck. But as my teacher says" you dont want to use all your energy going straight you want the Yi or intent but not so much the body which in my opinion is expressed in San ti shi by having 70/30 60/40.

Xingyiquan is not a popular Internal Chinese martial arts style these days because it does not look pretty, it tends to be aggressive and about fighting and it will hurt to train it if you are training properly

Xingyiquan looks simple when I was learning each fist I thought thats it? For 4 years I have been doing Zuanquan a certain way until I saw my teacher do it and showed me a small detail that I never noticed before which made a big difference. Another one in Zuanquan was the final movement with a slight turn at the end expressing the "jin" of that fist which I never noticed before making me focus more on my Xingyiquan training.

Xingyiquan is aggressive; attack is attack and defense is attack. One of my teachers said “Xingyi doesn’t back up” but in reality there are parts of the forms that do go backwards, however in true Xingyiquan style those also attack.

I know in one of the fist there is a slight "back up" but I think in application wise it can be a kick or whatever.

In my opinion the fist which are also used for health can be found following the Jingluo or the organs themselves.
Piquan: follows the Lung Jingluo the rise and fall opens up the back and lungs.
Zuanquan: follows the kidney jingluo and also the kidney
Bengquan: Follows the Liver jingluo and also the punch comes from the liver(traditionally at least, in my form)
Paoquan: Follows the Heart jingluo
Hengquan: Cross steps twisting the Spleen creating harmony between the Stomach and Spleen.
In my opinion practicing San ti shi and the five fist is in itself a complete Qigong routine. Xiao Zhou Tian I think can be accomplish practicing San ti shi, the 12 Jingluo can be open and full of Qi thru correct practice of the five element fists. Again just my opinion.

Another thing I enjoy about Xingyiquan is the obvious spear work involved in it. Looking at San ti shi we can see the positioning of spear.

Even when I watch a Xingyiquan sword routine the spear to me looks so obvious compared to a more fluid type as Wudang sword:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7AxM7n2a4M&feature=related

But I enjoy both.
I am happy we can discuss something productive on Martial talk so much drama in the study these days.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Thanks, I will have more to talk about... believe me.... I'm way to excited about training Xingyiquan again and I just can't seem to shut up


My first sifu new the Dao form, but he only knew form, nothing else. He was going to teach it but I was the only person interested so there was no money in it for him so he never taught it. However he did teach Xingyiquan staff, which basically gave me the same feel as Wuxingquan with only one difference... It was more like "I'm going to hit you....hard.... with a stick"

I am just starting to get back into the associations with the internal organs, the meridians and the 5 elements as they apply to Xingyiquan. Also I have an acupuncture chart I need to start studying as well since xingyi ultimately uses a phoenix eye punch to attack specific points on the body. I also have a person that is very well trained in the points that I can ask about all the points…yes I’m bragging

Piquan - Metal (金, jīn) - lung, large intestine
Zuanquan - Water ( 水, shu&#464 - kidney, bladder
Bengquan - Wood (木, mù) - Liver, gall bladder
Paoquan - Fire (火, hu&#466 - heart, sanjiao
Hengquan - Earth (土, t&#468 - spleen, stomach

I realize there is more to it but I do not have the books with me.

A book that gets into this a bit more than the average, that I really need to reread is Xing Yi Nei Gong: Xing Yi Health Maintenance and Internal Strength Development by Dan Miller and Tim Cartmell

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yep going thru you like a truck. But as my teacher says" you dont want to use all your energy going straight you want the Yi or intent but not so much the body which in my opinion is expressed in San ti shi by having 70/30 60/40.

Agreed, I have been looking at it more like I have a target to hit that is about 6 inches behind the target I see.

Xingyiquan looks simple when I was learning each fist I thought thats it? For 4 years I have been doing Zuanquan a certain way until I saw my teacher do it and showed me a small detail that I never noticed before which made a big difference. Another one in Zuanquan was the final movement with a slight turn at the end expressing the "jin" of that fist which I never noticed before making me focus more on my Xingyiquan training.

I saw the jin element of Zuanquan early on but that may have been my taiji background showing through But what I learned that I had not noticed was the trapping element of Zuanquan and Bengquan

In my opinion the fist which are also used for health can be found following the Jingluo or the organs themselves.
Piquan: follows the Lung Jingluo the rise and fall opens up the back and lungs.
Zuanquan: follows the kidney jingluo and also the kidney
Bengquan: Follows the Liver jingluo and also the punch comes from the liver(traditionally at least, in my form)
Paoquan: Follows the Heart jingluo
Hengquan: Cross steps twisting the Spleen creating harmony between the Stomach and Spleen.
In my opinion practicing San ti shi and the five fist is in itself a complete Qigong routine. Xiao Zhou Tian I think can be accomplish practicing San ti shi, the 12 Jingluo can be open and full of Qi thru correct practice of the five element fists. Again just my opinion.

That is very interesting and I had not thought of that much really, even though I do remember it being discussed at some level in Xing Yi Nei Gong. Thanks, I shall have to look more into that

Another thing I enjoy about Xingyiquan is the obvious spear work involved in it. Looking at San ti shi we can see the positioning of spear.

I ordered “The Xingyi Quan of the Chinese Army: Huang Bo Nien's Xingyi Fist and Weapon Instruction” and I belevie it is applying Xingyiquan spear training to a bayonet

I do know Liang Shouyu teaches 5 elements spear and 12 Animals Jian and Dao but I do not know if the guy I last trained with knows them. I do know that he knows the 12 Animals empty hand set a Xingyiquan Bashi

 

[David43515]

I know you`re probably tired of hearing me say this , but I`m so jealous of anyone who has the oportunity to study Xingi on anykind of regular basis.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I know you`re probably tired of hearing me say this , but I`m so jealous of anyone who has the oportunity to study Xingi on anykind of regular basis.

From the time I first read about and decided that Xingyiquan was the art for me to the time I found my first sifu was about 18 years. From the time I left my first sifu and found my second was about 10 years. From the time my second sifu stopped teaching until I decided the hell with it I’m traveling to train was about 5 years. Now it is just typical CMA training at home by myself, getting a training group going (it appears I have 2 people interested) and traveling a couple hundred miles 2 or 3 times a year as well as meeting up with the sifu about 2 addtional times a year in my area if things go right and if things go as planned traveling a few thousand miles once a year to meet with another sifu, however that last one is still up in the air. As far as I am concerned I’m not stopping now.

Now, if at all possible, leran the basics (Wuji, Zhan Zhaung, Santi Shi) and train them and that is a lot for now. It may be boring but it is so necessary to Xingyiquan.

Keep trying and sooner or later you will get there.