Writing an article on martial arts school scams

[sadan]

Hello everyone. I'm a martial arts instructor (TKD) and also am an attorney. Last week I was asked by a friend to help out with an issue concerning a martial arts contract and was incredibly disturbed by what I saw. I'm surprised not to see more information about what might be a system in which an increasing number of martial arts schools may be run (and concerns long term contracts) -- and I don't mean in a positive straightforward way.

As a result, I've started to put together an article to help people who hope to join a legitimate martial arts school identify and avoid schools that are likely to either be a fraud, engaging in fraud, questionable practice or other issue which may not be disclosed and will only serve to disappoint and deject a student later. Topics include:

- the McDojo and purported martial art being taught
- the belting game (a very large number of "stripes" resulting in many belt tests which cost $$$)
- what does it mean to have a black belt instructor and who "certifies" that they are what they claim to be?
- dangerous contracts, such as unusually extended commitments
- claims of "certification" for students (and what does that really mean)

I'd enjoy (sadly) hearing some of the scams and misleading practices that you've encountered in the hope of trying to help people identify schools that they should avoid.

 

[marques]

I like the idea, put all them on a black list... close all the BS...

Then the first issue is defining scam. There is so much diversity in the offer and demand that it is hard to define minimum standards or something.

Examples:
"Belting game" - When it becomes large number? People selling it says they are honest and it is optional and a supplement to compensate low prices per class/month. At the same time, some non-ranked styles ask for quite a lot of money upfront.
"Dangerous contracts" - In France, for instance, long contracts (1 year) are the norm. Payment per class or per month, when possible, have prices ridiculously high (Paris area, at least). Some user of this forum went for a 3 years contract, voluntarily.
"Certification" - They are as much value as the value of the person(s) who gave them. There is no authority to rule martial arts... Neither one authority per discipline... neither one per country...

The idea is noble, but it is not a easy one to deal with. What I call scam (offer), is just someone else need (demand). Is it wrong?

Perhaps we could start start with "rectification of names". So we could argue if it is karate or not, fitness or not, self-defence or not... scam or not. In the way things are these days, it seems 'all right'. :/

 

[oftheherd1]

Do a search here on the word McDojo. You will find a lot of mentions that may not be pertinent to what you want, but you will also find some things to look out for. You will of course want to check again the rules here so you do not inadvertently look like you are slamming a particular school or teacher.

FWIW, I have never been a fan of contracts and a lot of tests. I understand that a school must have some business sense to stay around, and I believe we westerners tend to want constant 'feel good' massages in the form of very visible signs of 'progress,' rather than realizing what they want to learn will take time and practice.

But that wasn't how it worked in the schools I learned in. It was monthly payments and belt tests when the teacher felt your were ready.

 

[sadan]

Thanks for your input. It's always important to get different perspectives before writing an article and critique on what are perceived bad practices. My recent review concerns a legal subtlety that I think most don't understand or appreciate until much later. And if they knew what was going on from the start, they might very well choose to go elsewhere.

Everyone needs to pay the bills. Where my sense of fairness is rubbed the wrong way begins when it's designed to mislead someone into not seeing the real picture. Sadly the flexibility of rationalizing can go much further when money is involved. I'll respond to the short list:

• Belting game: I'm talking about when newcomers are told of the belt levels at the school but aren't fully informed of how each level may be broken down into several sub levels, each of which requires testing and an additional fee. I can appreciate breaking down a handful of the longer stages that may exist in each martial art.
• Certification: Agreed - Yes, it's mostly based upon who you say you are. There may be no sole authority in martial arts but there are certainly organizations that have much more credibility than others and might be helpful for a variety of reasons. The key again is being honest in what they mean and don't mean and whether it makes a difference to the new student. I've seen some places make significant efforts to create an illusion of what they actually are and it's obvious to those who have been around.
• Dangerous Contracts: I'd appreciate hearing more about such experiences of which you speak. I can understand that in high rent areas such as Paris they need to fill the seats with a commitment. But when we start talking about multi-year agreements, ask yourself what is really going on here and why someone needs to even make a 2-3 year commitment to something that they don't even know is for them. In some schools some very harsh terms are expressed which make it required to read these contracts carefully - but at least they are mentioned. I'm going to highlight some of these clauses so that potential students can flag them to ask questions.

@oftheherd1 - I was fortunate having fallen into a school with a legitimate instructor of several decades. My experience was exactly the same as yours.

 

[oftheherd1]

I have never attended a school that required contracts as I mentioned. I have heard of schools that sell contracts guaranteeing a black belt. If you come, they will teach. If you don't, they will be open waiting, and of course keeping your money. I am told some of them guarantee the black belt within a certain time frame, with a certain amount of attendance, or another contract. I was told that some schools, in their contracts mentioned some vague thing about perhaps selling the contract to a financial institution. If you want to stop coming to school, they don't care. They also don't own the contract so you will be dealing with the financial institution.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Hello everyone. I'm a martial arts instructor (TKD) and also am an attorney. Last week I was asked by a friend to help out with an issue concerning a martial arts contract and was incredibly disturbed by what I saw. I'm surprised not to see more information about what might be a system in which an increasing number of martial arts schools may be run (and concerns long term contracts) -- and I don't mean in a positive straightforward way.

I am not an attorney, but I know that there are many kinds of contracts, and calling various aspects out as fraudulent or otherwise to be avoided could well end up with the person making the allegation being sued for restraint of trade. IANAL this is not legal advice.

As a result, I've started to put together an article to help people who hope to join a legitimate martial arts school identify and avoid schools that are likely to either be a fraud, engaging in fraud, questionable practice or other issue which may not be disclosed and will only serve to disappoint and deject a student later. Topics include:

I think such an article can be helpful, but one must be quite careful to avoid discussions of fraud unless one can prove fraudulent intent and is willing to do so in court.

- the McDojo and purported martial art being taught
- the belting game (a very large number of "stripes" resulting in many belt tests which cost $$$)
- what does it mean to have a black belt instructor and who "certifies" that they are what they claim to be?
- dangerous contracts, such as unusually extended commitments
- claims of "certification" for students (and what does that really mean)

I'd enjoy (sadly) hearing some of the scams and misleading practices that you've encountered in the hope of trying to help people identify schools that they should avoid.

Some thoughts. These are my opinions only. I have no particular expertise and claim no special knowledge of the subject.

Consider first that a martial arts school is a business, in many ways like any other. However, the article being sold is a bit of an intangible. What is martial arts training, exactly? I can sell an apple. It either is or is not an apple. I can teach you to speak Esperanto. It either is or is not Esperanto. But if I offer to teach you some form of martial arts training, who decides if it does or does not meet some objective standard to be called 'legitimate martial arts' training?

What is being conveyed in the way of a promise to students? That they will be able to engage in a sport? That they will be able to defend themselves against violence? That they will receive health benefits associated with physical training? That they will find friends and engage in a pleasurable hobby? I don't see a lot of places making any kind of representation about what precisely is the expected outcome of training, which makes it hard to say they do or do not provide a claimed service.

We have legitimacy defined by organization, in some cases, and by lineage in others. However, can we say that all organizations convey legitimacy, or that lineage, even when it is 'as claimed' and not fraudulent, provides a guarantee of quality training? As others have noted, organizations run the gamut from groups that do their best to ensure that the style they support is being taught by instructors who meet their quality standards, to groups that simply grant degrees for money and have no qualifications beyond that, and everything in between.

We can also say that there are instructors and schools who claim no lineage and no membership in any organizations, and who is to say that they do not teach a valid or legitimate form of 'martial arts'? Beauty being in the eye of the beholder, it seems to me that every martial arts training facility will claim to teach a valid form of martial arts, and there's no way to prove legally that it does or it does not.

Sadly, I believe that this leads to many students being misled about what they are being taught and how applicable it might be to any given situation.

On the issue of contracts. As you mentioned, contracts are often considered a necessary way to do business when services are being provided. Many or most gymnasiums do it. Various studios that teach yoga, spinning, etc, etc, depend upon contracts. These are considered necessary for a variety of legitimate reasons, including being able to get a loan, liability insurance, and having some semblance of predictability in terms of drawing an income from the business, etc.

While many martial arts training facilities do not use contracts, it would be incorrect to assume that any who do are not legitimate training facilities.

What should be in a contract? Typically, a hold harmless clause is required, for liability reasons. A set stated term, options for renewal, and an agreed-upon periodic fee. Any additional fees should be clearly spelled out, and it should be noted if they are required or optional (for example, patches, belts, weapons, safety gear, participation in tournaments and seminars, and so on). How often can the student attend, and for how many hours?

I would argue that any such contract should have stated terms under which the contract can be nullified, such as the student moving, losing their job or source of income, or becoming too injured to continue training, as well as any fees for contract cancellation. Fees for material breach, agreements as to how contract disputes should be settled, and so on would all be very good to have as well. I understand that some contracts also promise to promote a student in good standing to various ranks at various dates, and I guess that's at the discretion of the prospective student as to whether or not that is a good or bad thing. Personally, I would be very wary of a school that guaranteed promotions, but that's me.

If I were going to sign a contract of that sort, one of the things I would do is start adding up the fees and project what my yearly cost would be, so I could consider it as a cost-benefit value proposition. Say $100 per month for attending. That's $1200 per year. Say an average of 5 years to black belt. That means a black belt costs $6,000, exclusive of any other fees. Now add in any mandatory fees such as uniforms, patches, testing fees, belt fees, tournaments or competitions, seminars, and so on. Let's say it ends up being in the neighborhood of $10,000. Does that mean it's a bad deal? No way to say. What does it mean to the student? How does it work into their budget? What value do they feel they will extract from it? Do they even wish to consider it in terms of money spent (it is legitimate not to, but it's good to at least have a clear picture of what the reality will look like).

I would always advise any prospective student of any martial arts training facility to ask for time to look over a contract at home prior to signing it. There should be no reason a training facility would hesitate to allow a prospective student to consider what they are signing and obligating themselves to do or pay.

On the subject of fees. There seem to be a lot of ways to extract money from students. I can't comment on what is and is not legitimate in that regard, but I'm aware of some of the many methods. I've mentioned some above. For example, testing fees for promotions, belt fees for the actual promotion. Uniforms. Patches. Weapons. Safety/Sparring gear. Mandatory attendance at tournaments, competitions, and seminars. It can add up. Particularly for kids, parents probably need to have a reasonable expectation as to their outlay before committing to these kinds of ongoing expenses.

As to certifications, authenticity, and so on, I have no way to judge. I can say that as a person who has a background in the military and law enforcement, and who has been training for some time in a martial arts style that is generally recognized as legitimate (Isshin Ryu) and under an instructor who has a wonderful reputation world-wide, I can generally identify what is 'good training' and what is not, but it's all subjective.

I don't know how to even go about such a thing. In many states in the US, various trades are licensed, board-certified, and have to meet some objective standard before a person can engage in the trade. Plumbers, private detectives, carpenters, tattooists, and so on. However, although it can be very difficult to apply objective standards to some sets of skills and abilities. A plumber has to pass a number of tests, belong to an organization, have gone through an apprenticeship, etc. But that doesn't mean he or she is a good plumber; it just helps to make sure there aren't that many bad ones.

But you will notice that while house painters might be licensed, artists who paint pictures of houses are not. Photographers are not. Wedding cake decorators are not. Why? Probably because there is no universal standard for 'art'.

And it is in this realm, between trade and art, that the martial arts training industry finds itself. It can be said to be a trade in some sense. The instructors should ideally be skilled and experienced practitioners. But of what? There's the rub. I would not suspect that a test for a judo instructor would be too difficult, as there is a traditional definition of judo, there are established lineages and associations, judo is an accepted Olympic sport and has been for many years, etc, etc. However, now take a guy who says he invented his own style, has no lineage, no associations, and there are no other high-level practioners of it. We can say he can't be licensed, but what if it happens he's a great fighter and he really did invent his own style? Or if he claims his style doesn't actually teach self-defense, but inner peace at being beaten up? What if he teaches run-away-fu, or lay-down-and-beg-ryu? I'm playing the fool here but to illustrate a point. Since martial arts is such a fluid amorphous thing, how can someone define who is and who is not teaching it?

I think it comes down to Caveat Emptor as it does with many things. There are many pitfalls, and I hope it helps prospective students when they come to online discussion forums like this one and ask. Sometimes someone will say "Oh, I know that guy. He's a pretty good trainer." Or, "I remember that guy. He got a green belt in my style, promoted himself to 15th dan, and opened a school. Buyer beware." Some of us have some knowledge about various organizations or styles or claimed lineages and are willing to share.

But it's all pretty much down to individuals. And that's always going to be a problem.

 

[sadan]

I was told that some schools, in their contracts mentioned some vague thing about perhaps selling the contract to a financial institution. If you want to stop coming to school, they don't care. They also don't own the contract so you will be dealing with the financial institution.

I am not an attorney, but I know that there are many kinds of contracts, and calling various aspects out as fraudulent or otherwise to be avoided could well end up with the person making the allegation being sued for restraint of trade. IANAL this is not legal advice. I think such an article can be helpful, but one must be quite careful to avoid discussions of fraud unless one can prove fraudulent intent and is willing to do so in court.

I didn't expect such savvy, educated, extensive and well constructed replies. Kudos and thank you.

@Bill Mattocks - Fantastic post. Your extensive reply makes me realize that I will probably need to create two articles. One is on reviewing martial arts contracts and another is setting expectations beyond the contract. Your advice is excellent on giving legal advice as well. The issue with which I am dealing surrounds what @oftheherd1 has mentioned and it would appear to be a growing practice and a system being generated. I fully understood why I heard what I was being told consistently from representatives when I spoke to them. In my opinion, the only way a student will sign is if they are told something akin to white lie. After all, who would sign a contract if what @oftheherd1 mentions was obvious?

I took a look at the agreement sent to me and have decided to do a full article to identify to all students what they need to know before signing any martial arts school agreement. It is shocking and unsignable. The only way I can see a reasonable person signing it is if (a) there are circumstances as to why the person might not have been able to fully read it at the time of signing - and there are; and (b) salespeople/instructors may be taking liberties with oral explanations and representations in spite of the harsher language, e.g. "I know it says no refunds on our 5 year contract but we always work things out as you can trust us and our school's 400 year reputation, etc."

@oftheherd1 - My master was embarrassed to extract the money and wanted students committed to coming. He was bored and uninterested in those with a passing fancy and they could leave as they pleased. Our contracts ranged from 1-3 months, occasionally 6 if a student was committed and wanted a discount and 1 year for black belts with a significant discount of which no one would complain. Belt tests occurred when he decided students were ready and we even only paid for the belts, not even for testing. It's very rare and I can accept my good fortune. It's the sleazery that I'm finding which bothers me and which I hope to help people avoid and prevent a stench from attaching itself to a wonderful institution that can bring people incredibly positive experiences.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Let me add this.

There is a nearby karate school that I will not name, for what I hope are obvious reasons. When it opened, it was announced in the local newspaper. It is part of a chain, the owners are franchisees of that chain. I did some independent investigation because I was curious. Here is what I found.

The school franchise costs 50,000 USD. Like any franchise (oil change business, hair salon, stationary store), the franchise controls many aspects of the business. The name, logo, advertisement, and so on are all set by corporate HQ. In this case, they look for franchise owners who are husband-and-wife teams. When they agree to enter into a franchise agreement, they fly to the HQ location, are given a six-week training course (no prior martial arts expertise required), and fly back home, where they locate and rent appropriate studio space, get their signage, equipment, and begin operations.

They are shown how to make contacts and contracts with local public and private schools, municipal organizations, church groups, and so on. They cater primarily to children. They have a set curriculum. They are shown how to recruit and hire 'black belts' of any martial arts styles that they can teach to be their instructors, typically teens and young adults who have some kind of martial arts background and who will work for fairly low wages.

They operate by contract, either individual or in the case of schools and whatnot, by organization. Promotions are guaranteed at a certain frequency. There are fees for belt tests and promotions. Uniforms, sparring gear, patches, and all other equipment must be purchased through the franchise. Seminars and competitions are mandatory and also involved fees. Parents are encouraged to take students to tournaments in local as well as interstate venues, not unlike soccer or baseball or hockey students do.

By contrast, the school where I train is a small rented space that is owned by an instructor with 40+ years of experience training and well over 30 years experience teaching. He has his own businesses besides the dojo - it would hardly pay a living wage, if I had to guess. We are a member of a small but recognized organization. There is a single monthly fee, no contracts. There are no fees for tests. The only fee for a belt is the cost of the belt itself, and only if the belt color changes (no charge for stripes for kids). There is no mandatory participation in any event. Students can buy uniforms through the school or elsewhere. They can buy patches, but don't have to. They do not have to join any parent organization. We teach kids as well as adults. Instructors are all students themselves as well as volunteers. We help because we love the dojo and want to give back. We're a family.

Now...which is better?

I don't know. Better is such a subjective word.

I attend the dojo where I study because it fits my needs. It's a family, as I mentioned. We're tight, we're friends. We know and trust each other. We train hard; a person walking in off the street might think we were trying to kill each other. We can demonstrate that a technique works on request against a resisting opponent. We train for self-defense. We spar, but only for variety; we don't do sport karate. Those who attend tournaments do so for their own entertainment, it's never required or even recommended in most cases. Seminars are not required, although our yearly organization's meeting is encouraged for those who wish to attend and can afford the time and money it takes to go there. All these things make my dojo 'better' for me.

However, it is just as valid for a person to want other things. A defined curriculum. A safe space. Membership in a franchise that means the training facility will continue if the owners sell or leave or if the student moves, etc. As much as promotions on a schedule mean little to me, they do mean something to some, and who is to say that is wrong? Maybe self-defense is not the ultimate goal. Maybe it is sports competition, or self-confidence, or even an after-school activity that fits into the family schedule. Who am I to say those things are wrong?

I may raise an eyebrow at franchise owners who were taught from white to black belt in six weeks, but I can't prove that they cannot defend themselves (unless I wanted to challenge them to a fight, I guess). It may seem odd or even ludicrous to me, but again, who am I to say that it works or does not work? Maybe their school produces students who really can defend themselves, I don't know!

In conclusion, I think there is a world of difference between schools run as for-profit businesses and those run as labors of love. But I cannot say that quality instruction cannot be obtained in either one. Either can be excellent - or terrible - or anywhere in between.

Franchises don't interest me, either as a student or as a someday-maybe dojo owner. But that's just me. Franchises exist because (in general) they are an effective way to create a viable business that will support the owners, with as much risk as possible removed from the equation. They tend to be proven money-making businesses that provide a good or a service to the public, and do it in a way that meets with enough approval to continue in business.

I will note that the franchise I spoke of is still open, still apparently doing well, and it's been over five years since they opened. They must be doing something right.

 

[Buka]

Welcome to MartialTalk, sadan. Best of luck with your project.

You might have a conflict of interests, though. Being an Instructor and delving into the workings of what might be considered competitors. But I'm sure you know more about that than I do.

If I may ask - how long have you, yourself, been training? And how many other dojos have you been in, to see first hand, exactly what goes on in them?

 

[marques]

• Dangerous Contracts: I'd appreciate hearing more about such experiences of which you speak. I can understand that in high rent areas such as Paris they need to fill the seats with a commitment. But when we start talking about multi-year agreements, ask yourself what is really going on here and why someone needs to even make a 2-3 year commitment to something that they don't even know is for them. In some schools some very harsh terms are expressed which make it required to read these contracts carefully - but at least they are mentioned. I'm going to highlight some of these clauses so that potential students can flag them to ask questions.

@sadan , about the 3 years contract I don't know much. I just read it here, in the forum.

About the year contract, just search online. I think it is quite easy, even without knowing French. Otherwise, I can search for you if you tell me exactly what you are looking for.

My experiences: In fact, managed to pay only the last 3-4 months of the academic year, twice. But once I needed to say I was going to Africa on the summer and absolutely no interest in a 1-year contract. It was paid in advance and price made up by the instructor, since it is not an option on the price table. Did a 3th similar deal, just did not went there after the trial class... In two of the tree cases, no monthly option.

Monthly and per class options exists in some places but (very) expensive. And actually, the year contract made the cost/hour a bargain, assuming you train full year, all classes... which is the good side of the deal.

 

[oftheherd1]

I didn't expect such savvy, educated, extensive and well constructed replies. Kudos and thank you.
...

(b) salespeople/instructors may be taking liberties with oral explanations and representations in spite of the harsher language, e.g. "I know it says no refunds on our 5 year contract but we always work things out as you can trust us and our school's 400 year reputation, etc."
...

Thanks. Bill Mattocks' replies are always well thought out and well articulated. If I do so, it is probably an accident.

I recently bought a new car. Among other things they offered was gap insurance for the life of the loan, and we were told we could cancel at any time and get a full refund on the little under $900 fee. We figured if we got our money back any time on demand, what could we lose.

When I was handed the contract, I turned it over and began reading a long page. When I got to the refund part, way down, I found it would be prorated. I pointed that out, and was told prorating wasn't true, we could get $800 back anytime. Lie number two. Obviously we didn't get gap insurance!

Everyone needs to read any contract before they sign. They tend to be long and full of legalese. That is usually to protect the interests of one side over the other. If it goes too far, it is time for changes or a decision not to sign.

 

[sadan]

You might have a conflict of interests, though. Being an Instructor and delving into the workings of what might be considered competitors. But I'm sure you know more about that than I do. If I may ask - how long have you, yourself, been training? And how many other dojos have you been in, to see first hand, exactly what goes on in them?

Zero conflict of interest. The school in question is several hours away by car and in another state and most of the apparent "network" attached to the backbone. This came to me solely as a legal matter. When you see the contract in my article, feel free to roll your eyes liberally. Of course I'll be mentioning this place as a great source of information and experience and helped compile information in the article.

My background: In high school I trained for a few years in Shotokan Karate. Roughly 16 years ago I unexpectedly found myself studying Taekwondo and loving my small school. I was fortunate to have been beaten up regularly by several scary Korean born/trained 4th and 5th Dans who also taught a mixed TKD-boxing-fitness class once per week. I am a Kukkiwon certified 4th Dan black belt, instructed at 2 schools and taught by a bona fide Korean grand master (9th Dan.) His master is an extremely well known grand master, especially in Korea, where I have been fortunate to spend a very short time studying as well. I have been a licensed attorney for 2 decades.

 

[Andrew Green]

- the McDojo and purported martial art being taught

I really dislike this word, it makes little sense. McDonalds is a massive franchise that is know for their business systems which allow them to serve at a level of consistency that is really quite impressive and do so for a very low price. The food might not be great, but for the prices they charge I'm not sure what anyone can really expect.

In the martial arts it seems to get used towards businesses that deliver inconsistent results for high prices.

- the belting game (a very large number of "stripes" resulting in many belt tests which cost $$$)

How many stripes or belts you have is not at all related to the quality of instruction, it may be related to retention though. Improving retention is a good thing.

As for testing fees, it's up to them. As long as fees are disclosed upfront and not a surprise I don't think they are a problem.

Pretty sure the reason testing fees got big was to create a piece of the income for the school that didn't go through a billing company (which takes a percentage for their services).

In the end, you pay for testing, just like everything else. Just a matter of whether or not it is included in the monthly fees or a separate fee. You still pay for the belt, certificate, instructors time, facility usage, etc. in some way.

- what does it mean to have a black belt instructor and who "certifies" that they are what they claim to be?

Not much and no one. There is no certifying body in the martial arts. Some organizations certify instructors, but it's purely a internal thing.

- dangerous contracts, such as unusually extended commitments

Just a matter of being honest up front. If you don't want to commit to a term, don't. People do need to be aware of what they are signing up for and how they can get out.

- claims of "certification" for students (and what does that really mean)

It means you are certified in whatever group you are a part of. Whether it is a single school or a national organization says little about that.

Scams are just a matter of ethics and transparency. There is a ethical way to use contracts, and a unethical one. There is a ethical way to certify people, and a unethical one. What matters is the person representing the school being honest about what it is you are signing up for.

Simple things like promising people they will lose weight and get a workout... and then having them do stuff that barely gets them sweating. Promising them self-defence and then teaching nothing but sport geared stuff or forms with no application. Promising them MMA and teaching TKD and Aikido when you knew they wanted MMA the sport, not just two styles mixed together. Promising them traditional training and teaching MMA is the same.

Just be honest about what you do and why, that's it. It's just like any other business. If you buy a car and the seller promises you it's in great shape and it's not, that's a scam. Buy the same car and the seller is upfront about it's condition, not a scam. If you go in looking for something that can off road because that's what you need... and the seller sells you on a great car that they love, but it can't do what you need, that's a scam too. Even if the product was great, it wasn't what the buyer wanted and you sold it to them anyways knowing it wasn't.

 

[sadan]

@Andrew Green - You raise several excellent points and comments. As I'm on a mobile device and difficult to quote, I'll respond to several individually.

McDojo - I never liked the term either for a similar reason and use it only as it is in the parlance of martial arts discussions. For the most part I think the term was meant to be a clever quip on franchising and a homogenous place appearing everywhere. I don't think the same evils / failures apply since a Dojo/Dojang is supposed to be a personal service, not generic.

Certification - I agree with you for the most part and would like to respectfully raise an issue which people don't consider when they join a Dojo, Dojang or club. I believe that what you get out is primarily about the substance, integrity, skill of the masters and a trustworthy / comfortable / enjoyable experience with the organization and the students generally. That's #1 and works for many people. It's easier when you don't expect to move around. And it can help with what you alluded to regarding thinking you're learning A but really are learning B.

Where certification came into play in our school was being the product of the center of a large city attracting a number of migrating students. Certification is not universally uniform as you point out and can be vague as to what it means and implemented at "certified" schools. Good organizations are supposed to be about making sure (best they can) that teachers are qualified and an acceptable curriculum is taught. For example, many TKD schools teach at least the Taeguk forms (we also learned Palgwe.) So transferring to a new school may result in less transition time. We had some very talented martial artists transfer from TKD schools that went modified MMA to take advantage of media hype. Jeet Kune Do is one thing. It's another when it's cobbled together by a modestly experienced school owner to make paying adrenaline junkies happy. As a result, some talented students who came to us knew very little about traditional TKD and were frustrated that their 2nd Dan still put them in the beginners class. My master was sympathetic, recognized their long commitments and tried to accelerate the usual pace based upon their experience, true skill level and exhibiting mastery of each form more quickly than true beginners.

It's very difficult to know the right questions to ask or how to spot answers at the beginning of the journey. We were WTF (most popular now) but even students of ITF were able to transition easily, had some similarity and they were able to learn our other forms reasonably quickly. Same deal regarding skill level and testing. Probably would have been the same if I was in their shoes.

And in the place I discovered it is marketed as a well recognized name in martial arts. I discovered that they are learning the same martial art but adapted in a different country and better known by a different name that is mostly common only to those familiar with the martial arts.

It's all about honesty, integrity and proper disclosure. I have a very broad respect and wide tolerance for those making such efforts, regardless of results. What I've seen in two schools isn't even making the low limbo bar.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Hello everyone. I'm a martial arts instructor (TKD) and also am an attorney. Last week I was asked by a friend to help out with an issue concerning a martial arts contract and was incredibly disturbed by what I saw. I'm surprised not to see more information about what might be a system in which an increasing number of martial arts schools may be run (and concerns long term contracts) -- and I don't mean in a positive straightforward way.

As a result, I've started to put together an article to help people who hope to join a legitimate martial arts school identify and avoid schools that are likely to either be a fraud, engaging in fraud, questionable practice or other issue which may not be disclosed and will only serve to disappoint and deject a student later. Topics include:

- the McDojo and purported martial art being taught
- the belting game (a very large number of "stripes" resulting in many belt tests which cost $$$)
- what does it mean to have a black belt instructor and who "certifies" that they are what they claim to be?
- dangerous contracts, such as unusually extended commitments
- claims of "certification" for students (and what does that really mean)

I'd enjoy (sadly) hearing some of the scams and misleading practices that you've encountered in the hope of trying to help people identify schools that they should avoid.

I guess this is one rabbit hole you haven't been down yet. Have fun with it.

 

[sadan]

I guess this is one rabbit hole you haven't been down yet. Have fun with it.

LOL, thanks. On my site we have had many questions regarding gym / health club membership scams (some epic in length) and only a handful of martial arts school topics although a couple recently.

One item that I can't yet identify. There is a reference to potentially assign the contract to "APS". Does anyone have any idea what entity this might be?

 

[JowGaWolf]

regarding gym / health club membership scams

I can see this being easier to grasp than martial arts. Everyone goes to the gym to exercise. But when it comes to a martial arts school, not everyone goes there to learn martial arts. Some go there to get a black belt and they don't care if they actually learn something or not, some go to learn to fight, some go for self-defense, exercise, social activity, to fulfill a dream, to do martial arts stunts, for self-esteem, to improve confidence, for bragging rights that they take a martial arts, to go professional, for medical reasons (tai chi) or for the love of martial arts itself.

The only time it really becomes a McDojo or a scam is when you don't learn something that you though you were going to learn, but even then that is difficult because if one student gets what they and you don't, then it could just be poor research on you behalf before selecting a school. I can't go to a barber school and think that I'm going to learn how to cook.

Sometimes the reasons change while we are in the school. So a person may originally be a "belt chaser" and then after 2 years decides that he actually wants to learn how to fight. When this happens a person may need to switch school that better suits his needs, but because of the relationship he has with the teacher and fellow classmates he decides to stay.

Then you have people who do demos and assume that the ability to do a cool demo = the ability to actually fight.

The contracts would probably be easy to spot as being counter productive, risky, or red flagged for being trapped into an agreement. Some of my favorite phrases are "Cancel any time" "Monthly Payment" "No testing fees"

 

[sadan]

The only time it really becomes a McDojo or a scam is when you don't learn something that you though you were going to learn, but even then that is difficult because if one student gets what they and you don't, then it could just be poor research on you behalf before selecting a school. I can't go to a barber school and think that I'm going to learn how to cook.

Not really. The McDojo problem seems more about commoditizing poorly what is a personal service and an owner who is primarily concerned about a positive revenue stream. It's not about thinking you're learning Karate but you're really learning Judo or that it's not as intensive as you thought. @Bill Mattocks' fantastic post (Writing an article on martial arts school scams) should allow you to peer into how it's much more sophisticated than you may realize.

Regarding your comment, research is very difficult without an experienced martial artist to help. The friend I mentioned above went to a TKD dojang as a result of meeting a talented 3rd Dan instructor who lived near her apartment. The school was convenient. Several months later the instructor left the school because of an issue with the school owner (who allegedly misrepresented his own credentials among other things.) The owner decided to create "modify" his TKD advertised school to market a quasi-MMA training school to ride the popularity. He created some unstructured curriculum with a couple of young local martial artists who needed a job. My friend wanted to leave, understanding what was going on. The owner kept delaying giving her the black belt certificate she earned because he didn't want her to leave the school. That's when she came to us - and never received the certificate. Unless someone complains publicly, it's difficult for someone to know how to spot someone who has experience covering their tracks.

The contracts would probably be easy to spot as being counter productive, risky, or red flagged for being trapped into an agreement. Some of my favorite phrases are "Cancel any time" "Monthly Payment" "No testing fees"

Monthly Payment is not necessarily a red flag. Neither is "no testing fees." You need to ask questions about how these things work and those statements can be disclosures, not deception. And "cancel any time" is actually a good flag. If you discover that you don't care to stay at the school, are dissatisfied, etc. at least you have a cancellation clause that is conspicuous (even though there will probably be some fees.) What I discovered are subtleties that most people won't understand or appreciate when they sign the contract. @oftheherd1 nailed it with this post - Writing an article on martial arts school scams . Imagine being told that you can only terminate a long agreement if you become injured. You suffer a pretty serious injury but only learn later that the company billing you (because they can) is ruthless and they will charge you unless you can prove you're fully disabled cripple. It's about leveraging.

Regarding the school my friend went (subject of the article), the owner and master (franchisor) seems legitimate and spent many years training in his martial art, some videos on YouTube, etc. I have to wonder whether some of these school owners experience hard times and don't realize what it really means to sell part of your business to a third party to manage. And some of these third parties are interested in only one thing - making money using leverage.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Monthly Payment is not necessarily a red flag.

Not what I was saying. Sorry for the miscommunication. The phrases are things that I look for because it gives me an out. So when I look for a martial arts school, I want to see a monthly payment option, "no testing fees", and "cancel any time."
In my mind if a school is really good then there's no need to lock students into a contract because they are going to be willing to stay there even without long term contracts. The other thing is that "Life Happens" or "Life gets in the way" where students aren't always able to continue their training. When this happens people need to put their life as a priority and training with the school last on the list if necessary. Sometimes people can't put up a years worth of membership money because of other responsibilities. 3 months, 6 months, and 1 year payments should be an option and not a requirement.

As an instructor I don't even offer a 1 year payment option because I rather not have to worry about refunding money because someone decided to leave the school or had to take a break from the school because of life. For me "Cancel any time" has to be without any fees attached.

Imagine being told that you can only terminate a long agreement if you become injured.

I wouldn't join. This type of info is what I would get right up front.

You suffer a pretty serious injury but only learn later that the company billing you (because they can) is ruthless and they will charge you unless you can prove you're fully disabled cripple.

I don't like insurance companies for this reason, so I definitely wouldn't want it in my hobby. I make sure that the schools are managed and own by the Sifu. For Jow Ga the system isn't based on a third party. Sifu's retain full control of their schools. We have a Jow Ga Kung Fu association but they don't handle any of the finances or billing. The association is there to monitor quality of instruction of their Sifus.

I have to wonder whether some of these school owners experience hard times and don't realize what it really means to sell part of your business to a third party to manage.

I think some do and some don't. Sometimes it's the schools fault and sometimes it's their marketing company's fault. For how they present stuff. Here's an example This schools marketing refers to the videos as Hapkido as "Korean Kung Fu Karate".. "Students trying out their self defense moves in a practice fight."
People hear and see these

There is nothing kung fu about what they do. Including this

Sometimes what is presented through marketing is what causes the fake assumption about what a student is going to learn or about how a school is going to operate. If it means more students in their school then there is little that the owner is going to do to stop a 3rd party from bring in more money.

By the way Moderators I'm not bashing the school in the video. The videos are only to show an example of how the school is being advertised. For all I know the people who do the marketing for them probably don't know the difference between Hapkido, Karate, and Kung Fu. I say this because one of my neighbors asked me what type of martial arts do I do. I told him Kung fu and he asked me "Is that some kind of Karate?"

How things marketed has a big effect on what people expect. If you can get people to run with an assumption then they will be less likely to read a contract all the way through, or ask the necessary questions.

 

[thanson02]

Scams are just a matter of ethics and transparency. There is a ethical way to use contracts, and a unethical one. There is a ethical way to certify people, and a unethical one. What matters is the person representing the school being honest about what it is you are signing up for.

Simple things like promising people they will lose weight and get a workout... and then having them do stuff that barely gets them sweating. Promising them self-defence and then teaching nothing but sport geared stuff or forms with no application. Promising them MMA and teaching TKD and Aikido when you knew they wanted MMA the sport, not just two styles mixed together. Promising them traditional training and teaching MMA is the same.

Just be honest about what you do and why, that's it. It's just like any other business. If you buy a car and the seller promises you it's in great shape and it's not, that's a scam. Buy the same car and the seller is upfront about it's condition, not a scam. If you go in looking for something that can off road because that's what you need... and the seller sells you on a great car that they love, but it can't do what you need, that's a scam too. Even if the product was great, it wasn't what the buyer wanted and you sold it to them anyways knowing it wasn't.

This.

Above all things, be honest about what you offer and what they will learn. Also, make sure that your contracts (if you choose to have them) reflect this level of honestly and transparency. And don't nickle and dime your students. As head of a club or school, you are a figure head and they need to trust you and know that you will take care of their needs. Things can get really ugly if that trust becomes broken, which is where most of the issues of "scams" and "McDojos" come from.

Integrity, what a concept..........