Women Self Defence!

[Kung Fu Wang]

Should Women learn self defense more and more nowadays? How it will help in nowadays life? From what thing women should start learning the self defense tricks?

My wife is a good example for woman self-defense. Besides she has TKD black belt and Chinese wrestling blue belt, she has armed almost up to her teeth.

She always carry:

- stun gun,
- pepper spray,
- brass knuckle,
- spikes wristband,
- small knife necklace,
- ninja key chain.

I'll feel sorry for anyone who tries to attack her.

 

[AngryHobbit]

1. Use a female instructor who teaches from a female prospective.
2. Martial arts isn't self defence.
3. Why should women have to be the ones who have to 'take action and have to follow rules'', why shouldn't there be classes that teach males not to attack females?
4. Telling women that they are at risk because they are women isn't the answer.
5. As has been pointed out, most women are attacked by someone known to them.
6. Most women have plans in mind if attacked, this may not be fighting back, there should be no judgement if a female does whatever they feel is right to survive, if that includes not fighting 'giving in' then that's right for them. Physical fighting isn't always the answer.
7. Trust women to know what they want.
8. We've Been Teaching Women to Defend Themselves All Wrong

There is such a thing as self-defense-oriented martial arts. That's why, for example, I invited other women to join me in nihon goshin aikido classes. But if they chose to go and do a self-defense seminar at a local police department - that's cool too, as long as it was something.

I had a conversation with a female co-worker once and she said, "I'd sooner hurt myself than hurt someone else," when I mentioned self-defense training. And that... just... didn't make sense to me. I suppose, ok, she didn't want to hurt someone for her own sake. But wouldn't she want to protect her kids, for example? Her dog? Her elderly parents? Wouldn't that be worth it? Or is it that people just don't think about it that way? I honestly don't know.

I completely agree with you that it should not be the answer - telling women they are at risk because they are women... or teaching women to defend themselves instead of teaching men not to attack. But that's the world we live in. We ARE at risk. And yes, there are plenty of good men out there who don't need to be told why they should not attack a woman - or anyone for that matter. But there are also plenty of others.

The skewed nature of sexual assault toward women as the most common victims and men as the most common assailants affects other victims regardless of gender combination. It's bad enough women don't report such incidents, because they are afraid they'll be blamed (you know, the standard BS "You skirt was too short." "You were wearing too much makeup", blah, blah, blah). I can't even imagine what it's like for a woman reporting a sexual assault by another woman. Or for a man reporting a sexual assault by another man. Or for a man reporting a sexual assault by a woman.

Again, it is not a comforting thought to tell anyone - man or woman, "Learn how to defend yourself, because of all the reasons we know, but mostly - because of what we don't know." But that is our reality. I would much rather have the training and never have to use it than not have it at all.

 

[AngryHobbit]

People will do hard work for reward rather than fear.

Isn't being able to escape with your life and unscathed reward enough?

 

[AngryHobbit]

I have friends and family members like this as well. One of the things being on the planet for 40+ years is that eventually you won't be able to say things like.
1. I don't know anyone who was raped
2. I don't know anyone who wasn't robbed.
3. I don't know anyone who has gotten into a street fight.
4. I don't know anyone who as been abused

Just go through the list of crimes and you'll discover that you know someone directly or loosely who fits into it, many of the crimes that happen to people.

You know... I started going through that list and immediately felt depressed. Wouldn't it be awesome to actually be able to say "I don't know anyone who" to at least one of these?

 

[hoshin1600]

3. Why should women have to be the ones who have to 'take action and have to follow rules'', why shouldn't there be classes that teach males not to attack females?

i am not sure i understand your comment of why women need to take action and follow rules. what rules are you referring? there are no classes to teach men not to attack women because #1 they wouldnt work , #2 we already have a system in place that works to discourage such behavior, its called prison. #3 its pretty self evident its wrong but some dont care and the threat of imprisonment doesnt seem to stop them. these men are predators not much different than snakes or wolves in their behavior. classes for wolves to not attack sheep doesnt work so well either. that is why the onus is on women for the responsiblity of their own safety.

Most women have plans in mind if attacked, this may not be fighting back, there should be no judgement if a female does whatever they feel is right to survive, if that includes not fighting 'giving in' then that's right for them. Physical fighting isn't always the answer.

i am not so sure this is true. some women may have plans but i can tell you from the relationships in my life and the women i have known, they did not and at least one replied to my questioning "its just never gonna happen to me, so i dont worry about it" i say how do you know, it could. " i just know its never gonna happen, its just not"
the next factor is whether the plan they have in their minds is viable. as Mike Tyson said " everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face". does their plan match reality? how would they know if it does? how do they know its a good plan?

as far as judgement of her decisions: the biggest judgment is from themselves and the questioning of their own choices. i would like to point out that US statistics show that victims of rape who do not fight back have higher instances of emotional issues like PTSD than women who fought back. it would seem self evident that women who fought back and maybe lost would not feel the same sense of questioning and regret as those who froze in fear and did nothing. doing nothing will always bring up the "what ifs" .
while physical fighting is not always the answer, it should be an option and a choice. not learn physical skills would mean that it is not an option. no skills means no choice, giving in would be the ONLY choice. i think the whole point of self defense classes is to give options and skills.

EDIT:
i also wanted to say that the article Tez posted was really good. although the term feminist self defense is a bit of a turn off .with today's environment the word "feminist" is a very charged word in the US and Canada.

 

[oftheherd1]

The article is European, it's taken for granted that sex education from parents and schools is extensive so everyone knows what happens at puberty.

Most self defence for women is run by men from a male perspective of want women face which is usually sympathetic but not actually helpful.

I don't think we are ignorant of the effects of puberty exactly, we just don't seem to take them so much into account nor look for remedies. Maybe Europeans are some ahead of us.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The article is European, it's taken for granted that sex education from parents and schools is extensive so everyone knows what happens at puberty.

Most self defence for women is run by men from a male perspective of want women face which is usually sympathetic but not actually helpful.

Most really just teach self-defense as they would to any audience, and change the wording of their explanations. I've taught self-defense to rooms of just women, but I've never called it "self-defense for women", because I don't change anything about my wording or approach. I don't have a problem with instructors (men or women) teaching general SD to women, but it rankles me when they name it as if it were a specialty program for women when it isn't.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Why should women have to be the ones who have to 'take action and have to follow rules'', why shouldn't there be classes that teach males not to attack females?

Most men know not to. And teaching the "wrong" of it doesn't change the minds of those who would. Until we learn a way to change those minds, helping the women defend themselves is one thing we can do.

 

[hoshin1600]

[
QUOTE="Tez3, post: 1882458, member: 10553"]. We've Been Teaching Women to Defend Themselves All Wrong[/QUOTE]
i said this article Tez posted was pretty good, but i am still going to critique it and make some comments. i do realize that to a degree i am preaching to the choir.

"When I started looking for a self-defense class, what I was really looking for was one that would teach me how to fight"
i am not sure this is the correct criteria for choosing a self defense class. yes, physical martial skills are important but in a self defense class the goal should not be to "WIN" a fight. the goal should be to get out of the danger zone and perhaps that means stopping the threat but not necessarily.

"I signed up for Krav Maga—partly because it’s totally lethal"
a little over exaggerated and it is typical of someone who is inexperienced and excited about martial arts to see what they do as "the best".
people looking for self defense need to be a little more investigative about these classes and sometimes a little critical.

"It’s a simple yet brutally effective type of hand-to-hand combat, originally designed for Israel’s military."
it should be obvious that if it was designed for the military, that it was not designed for civilian's. just because something is effective in one field does not automatically make it effective in another.

"I discovered that it (krav- maga) takes years to learn "
"Empowerment classes can be completed in weeks, not the years it takes to master martial arts."
i put these two sentences together. the first from the beginning of the article and the second from the end. i have an issue with any instructor that puts forth the idea to his students that hours and weeks of training and learning will last any longer in the persons memory and skill set than hours and weeks.

“I don’t think taking a Krav Maga class will give you the immediate skills that people might be looking for,"
see this is a problem. the instructor is implying that the classes she provides give instant results. this is deceptive at best and at worst an out right lie. if your going to be a professional in the field then you should be giving an honest evaluation of expectations. that also means of yourself and of the product your offer! these classes may someday have a real impact on people lives, God forbid they need it and that responsibility should be taken seriously and not taken lightly.

self defense like this really burns my butt.
"four self defense moves that do not need any training at all" i do not want to disparage Harry'd daughter but looking at her performance of these moves......they were not "as advertised" no training means you have no skill and thus it is not an option when they are needed.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

People will do hard work for reward rather than fear.

People avoid for fear, approach for reward. It's not an absolute, but a reasonable general rule.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Isn't being able to escape with your life and unscathed reward enough?

Not if they aren't attacked on a regular basis. Fear of that potential attack is a more potent motivator, but doesn't motivate most people to get training, but to try to avoid being a victim (which is a good idea, if they are getting the right information to do so).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

self defense like this really burns my butt.
"four self defense moves that do not need any training at all" i do not want to disparage Harry'd daughter but looking at her performance of these moves......they were not "as advertised" no training means you have no skill and thus it is not an option when they are needed.

Agreed. The "Dracula" is our cross-face elbow strike. It does take some effort for some people to learn, and repetitions to become an easy response for most people. I've yet to find a single defensive move - no matter how simple - that every person could do well and effectively the first time. And that's without the interference of their avoidance and flinch responses.

 

[drop bear]

Isn't being able to escape with your life and unscathed reward enough?

Nope.

That is called something something in psychology. It is why people don't prepare for cyclones as well.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Nope.

That is called something something in psychology. It is why people don't prepare for cyclones as well.

I think that's the actual term. I know I'm using that every time I discuss the topic from now on.

 

[oftheherd1]

@aedrasteia i appreciate your posting and i understand the point your trying to make. however it seems to me you post questions rather than answers. in some cases this may be helpful to guide people into thinking about the topic and their own beliefs. but i cant help thinking that your own posts are equally unhelpful as the people your trying to correct.

Might I suggest that asking questions as aedrasteia has done, is a way both to encourage thought, and then answers to important questions, as well as showing aedrasteia's strong dismay concerning women being taken advantage of. I just have trouble agreeing with your interpretation of her motives.

i understand what you are implying here but you cannot say that the typical self defense class in general is NOT HELPFUL.
in the US statics show that there is a great success rate of preventing a rape by physical resistance. that there is virtually no increase in physical harm to a defender if she fights back vs compliance. that determined physical resistance is successful where half hearted pleading and resistance is detrimental. yelling and screaming is actually detrimental and shows a major increase in physical injury.
that the three most successful strategies for averting an attempted rape are, stern verbal resistance (saying no), threat of consequences, and determined physical resistance.

Maybe it would be helpful if you would define helpful. Also, could you link to some studies showing great success in resisting rape leading to preventing rape, and the use of the three strategies you mention? It has not been my experience that they are. I'm not saying one of those strategies wouldn't work sometimes, but I don't think it is the norm.

And less increase in physical harm from resistance vs compliance? Compliance? Can you give an example of compliance?

i will ask, why is this ? why are young girls targeted more than adults in many cases? it is because of the lower level of resistance and the inability of young small girls to put forth a formidable physical resistance.

I think it has more to do with the age preference of the perpetrator. Also, I think young girls are quite often more susceptible to grooming than forcible rape. But engaging in sex with girls below a certain age, is still normally codified as rape, even if the victim may not perceive themselves as victims.

i think your post is an attempt to show the difference between forcible rape and coercion. that in many cases it is coercion. i will agree that in these circumstances physical resistance in the form of MA is more difficult to respond with because of the familiarity with the perpetrator but that is not to say it is inappropriate.
unfortunate as your example is, as was pointed out, there are just some situations that are beyond the scope of martial arts and their instructors and i believe children in this situation is one of those.

martial arts is a valuable tool for rape prevention. it should be pointed out that it is not a solution in and of itself, that it is only one component of a successful strategy but it should not be presented and painted as useless in order to bring other non physical strategies to the forefront.

I haven't seen anything that defines the method used against the Olympic girls. It would be perhaps useful to know. Was the abuse forceful or something more subtle? I don't know. But your last two paragraphs are I think, largely correct. Martial arts training might give more confidence to younger women or girls to resist unwanted behavior, or may not if they don't know what is unwanted behavior.

I hope I don't sound too negative to your post. But I do think you are a little off track, even though well intentioned.

 

[drop bear]

1. Use a female instructor who teaches from a female prospective.
2. Martial arts isn't self defence.
3. Why should women have to be the ones who have to 'take action and have to follow rules'', why shouldn't there be classes that teach males not to attack females?
4. Telling women that they are at risk because they are women isn't the answer.
5. As has been pointed out, most women are attacked by someone known to them.
6. Most women have plans in mind if attacked, this may not be fighting back, there should be no judgement if a female does whatever they feel is right to survive, if that includes not fighting 'giving in' then that's right for them. Physical fighting isn't always the answer.
7. Trust women to know what they want.
8. We've Been Teaching Women to Defend Themselves All Wrong

My issue is, and this is including the article. I would personally consider the methods something I would not put my trust in.

And If I would not use that method to protect myself. I just wouldn't recomend it to someone else.

So there would have to be some sort of compelling argument that a system works. And the argument would have to be scientific method.

So this altenate method of womens self defence has to show evidence of it working. Rather than just be hypothesis.

There may be a specific method that works for females rather than males but there is no evidence that this is the case.

just to sort of address this idea separately.
Lets take that No.3 and apply it to when I worked security.

3. Why should bouncers have to be the ones who have to 'take action and have to follow rules'', why shouldn't there be classes that teach drunks not to attack bouncers?

And then the answer is because tough cookies. that environment isnt going to change for wishing. So it is on you do develop the tools to deal with life. Or change your enviroment so you are not around people who attack you.

 

[drop bear]

"When I started looking for a self-defense class, what I was really looking for was one that would teach me how to fight"
i am not sure this is the correct criteria for choosing a self defense class. yes, physical martial skills are important but in a self defense class the goal should not be to "WIN" a fight. the goal should be to get out of the danger zone and perhaps that means stopping the threat but not necessarily.

I still think training to win a fight sets you up functionally better to escape a fight.

Escaping a fight is still a compilation of wins. Especially if you are under someone getting rained on. Because you fight for every position you get.

People think fighting or escaping is doing the technique and having it just work. And that mostly isnt fighting I am sorry to say. It is in reality getting a tiny inch of advantage to get another inch of advantage and so on untill you are where you want to be.

 

[hoshin1600]

I haven't seen anything that defines the method used against the Olympic girls. It would be perhaps useful to know. Was the abuse forceful or something more subtle? I don't know. But your last two paragraphs are I think, largely correct. Martial arts training might give more confidence to younger women or girls to resist unwanted behavior, or may not if they don't know what is unwanted behavior.

I hope I don't sound too negative to your post. But I do think you are a little off track, even though well intentioned.

I think you post has some technical difficulties. I was confused at first but I think I got it. Most of your comments are mixed within the quote.
I will address it as time allows today. But what exactly do you think is off track?

 

[Tez3]

You see, all men deciding what women should have.

 

[oftheherd1]

You see, all men deciding what women should have.

All is a big number Tez3.