Wing Chun

[Kung Fu Wang]

the vertical fist resembles the Chinese character for "sun" (日).

In the long fist system basic form Tantui, all the punches are vertical fist.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Honestly, in our lineage we keep it simple and call things by simple names, whether using English or Cantonese terms. No mysticism or flowery descriptions. the "sun character thrusting punch" or Yat Gee Chung Kuen is called that simply because the vertical fist resembles the Chinese character for "sun" (日).

The "arrow punch" name is equally simple and descriptive, especially as we do it: Using vertical fists with one arm outstretched laterally while the other is drawn back to the center of the chest. As the name implies, it resembles an archer drawing a bow.

The nuances of Chinese kung fu references.

There are several different names in different styles for that same punch, and some of the different plays on name make minor differences. Rising, falling energy that sort of thing. There are even "through the sleeve" versions.

Jin Choi (Arrow Punch) is the canonical Shaolin name. Your lineage's Yat Ji Cheung Kuen would be a five family Yat Ji Man Jin (Sun-shaped Strong Arrow), with minor variations.

The particular stock photo is also Faw Jin Choi (Fire Arrow Punch) because of element aspect of how it is shown (rising). So yet another way of saying it all could be Yat Ji Cheung Man Faw Jin Kuen (Sun-shaped Thrusting Strong Fire Arrow Punch). Or Yat Ji Cheung Man Faw Jin Choi (choi is Hakka for pounding with the fist).

But all of this is just kung fu slang, nobody outside the arts would know what the hell you were talking about. I'm glad you do.

You can actually trace the root of this punch to Qigong practices found with the Shaolin and other places back to Song era medical exercises, particularly the Eight Brocades (#2 below, 2nd image).

 

[geezer]

The nuances of Chinese kung fu references....
But all of this is just kung fu slang, nobody outside the arts would know what the hell you were talking about.

^^^^ Ain't that the truth. As a person who does not speak Chinese (any dialect) I have on occasion tried to discuss a few Wing Chun terms with acquaintances who were native Cantonese speakers. I might as well have been speaking to them from a phrasebook in broken Swahili : Salamu, vipi ina kuendaje?

I thought the problem was that I couldn't properly speak the tones of the words. But even when I showed them the Chinese characters, they were still perplexed. Eventually, a Cantonese American friend (who did train "kung fu") explained to me that these terms we use are not used the same way outside of the martial arts world.

Recognizing my profound limitations as a linguist, I have followed my old sifu's patient advice to us gwailo, and put aside any pretensions of learning Cantonese and instead focused on trying not to make a such mess of the techniques, by whatever name you call them.

BTW Oily, do you speak Cantonese or Mandarin? Either way, you seem to have a wealth of information.

 

[hunschuld]

Geezer I am with you. I can barely speak English let alone Chinese dialects.

In my experience one of the biggest problems with Wing Chun is the translation of Chinese to English or one Cantonese dialect to another or Cantonese to Hokkien etc.

A great deal has been lost due to mistranslation. I have witnessed some very funny and sad situations due to translations

 

[Danny T]

Or as my Sifu (who was from Hong Kong) says "Some call it 'XYZ', call it 'BCD', sometimes they say, 'EFG'. The thing is it's the same just said differently. Don't be so concerned about what it's called but work on being able to do it properly".

 

[Oily Dragon]

^^^^ Ain't that the truth. As a person who does not speak Chinese (any dialect) I have on occasion tried to discuss a few Wing Chun terms with acquaintances who were native Cantonese speakers. I might as well have been speaking to them from a phrasebook in broken Swahili : Salamu, vipi ina kuendaje?

I thought the problem was that I couldn't properly speak the tones of the words. But even when I showed them the Chinese characters, they were still perplexed. Eventually, a Cantonese American friend (who did train "kung fu") explained to me that these terms we use are not used the same way outside of the martial arts world.

Recognizing my profound limitations as a linguist, I have followed my old sifu's patient advice to us gwailo, and put aside any pretensions of learning Cantonese and instead focused on trying not to make a such mess of the techniques, by whatever name you call them.

BTW Oily, do you speak Cantonese or Mandarin? Either way, you seem to have a wealth of information.

I can speak a smidge of Cantonese, maybe enough to order a dish or count to a hundred or explain a concept. I've gotten pretty good at translating texts.

There are literal layers to sift through before we even get to all the various hidden meanings, and I'll point that out in the Ip Man thread with bong sao.

 

[FinalStreet]

Hidden meanings = Authenthic Lineage , Simple.
So if its just pak = block (in any arm) , it's not authentic? its short? its half? how?

 

[wckf92]

Hidden meanings = Authenthic Lineage , Simple.
So if its just pak = block (in any arm) , it's not authentic? its short? its half? how?

Hello @FinalStreet ...I see you are new to the forum. Welcome. I also noticed you are replying to a lot of old threads. It would be very helpful for the sake of conversation if you learn to use the "reply" and / or the "quote" features of this forum... Thanks!

 

[FinalStreet]

Hello @FinalStreet ...I see you are new to the forum. Welcome. I also noticed you are replying to a lot of old threads. It would be very helpful for the sake of conversation if you learn to use the "reply" and / or the "quote" features of this forum... Thanks!

Thank you, I will now. sorry

 

[wckf92]

Thank you, I will now. sorry

No worries! Thank you! (it helps to know who you are "talking" to or quoting when you reply). Enjoy the forum!

 

[Oily Dragon]

Hidden meanings = Authenthic Lineage , Simple.
So if its just pak = block (in any arm) , it's not authentic? its short? its half? how?

Yes, the language of authentic kung fu lineages is rife with hidden meanings. It's how the documentation works.

I watched Karate Kid Part II the other night, with Miyagi on the wooden post on the beach, practicing a southern Chinese technique with ease that most people would hurt themselves attempting.

That's really him there, performing Fukien White Crane, in a movie, and it made me a believer in authentic lineages, because he was never a formal student of karate, but somebody showed him a thing or two.