Why isn't savate as widely known and practiced in America as Muay Thai?

[kittybreed]

A local guy here in the Central Florida area told me he competed in Savate at last years' Disney Martial Arts Festival. I don't see it listed this year, though. Here's a link to the Disney page.
http://disneyworldsports.disney.go....tDetailPage&CMP=OTC-VanURLMartialArtsFestival

 

[lklawson]

I think you have actually hit on the main reason, or very close to it. One of the major reasons for the codification of boxing rules in Britain was to exclude the techniques that were being practiced by the Scottish which were based on Savate. By the early 19th century kicking as a techniques had been outlawed. The Revised London Prize Ring Rules (later revised as the Marquess of Queensbury rules) asked the following of boxers:



Add to this the vast scope of the British Empire during the 19th century and you can begin to see what happened to Savate. It was simply overwhelmed by Marquess of Queensbury-style boxing.

Oh, I'm sure that had some fair amount to do with it, but I think it was more than that. More by far. Remember, there were several notable "Boxing vx. Savate" matches, to try to determin the "superior" method. Both were wildly popular.

The two most damaging events to degrade the popular perception of la Savate were

1) the homoganizing effect of the Olympics (which drove countless regional wrestling styles to the brink of extinction), "prefering," as it did, English Boxing over la Savate.

2) the devistation upon the ranks of Savateures wrought by WWI. The ranks of Savate Silver Gloves holders were utterly DECIMATED by the trenches. There were, litterally, only a handful of qualfied instructors left after WWI. And it's taken nearly a century for the sport to begin to recover.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[K831]

I have always thought it seemed like a great style... mentioning that brings on the same reply each time

"what those guys in the gay uniforms" or "Isn't that a French style? Yea, I don't want to learn how to quiver and run away.."

That sentiment alone surely hurts its growth here. The other historical context points made by others shed some light on the issue as well.

The little exposure I have had with people trained in the art certainly left me feeling like the moved well, had good mechanics, timing etc...

Here is a link to a video showing the SD side of Savate;

 

[jarrod]

there are many reasons, such as the ones already mentioned. also, unless i'm mistaken, savate is less popular in it's home country than muay thai is in it's own. this means that there are more indigenious fighters out there representing their style.

also, savate's reliance on kicking with the boot & prohibitions against kicking with the shin prevent it from performing well against other styles, regardless of how effective it is. also, if i can make a huge genralization, there is a tendency among the french to refuse to "market" any aspect of their culture; the prevailing thought seems to be that what they have is so great that others should come to them. you can see this in french language, philosophy, & art. the french have a lot to offer, including savate, but most people will gravitate towards what is more accessible.

jf

 

[lklawson]

also, savate's reliance on kicking with the boot & prohibitions against kicking with the shin prevent it from performing well against other styles

This is due to its street fighting roots. It makes perfect sense coming from french street gangs who were free to wear steel capped sabots (boots). Why kick with the shin when you can toe-kick with a metal tipped boot?

It makes more sense in the more combative/SD versions of Savate, such as Danse de la Rue, though they are far more difficult to find.

The same sort of thing goes for la canne. There are two basic standard "styles" of la canne. La canne de combat, and la canne de armes. The first, la canne de combat, is the "sporting" version and omits thrusts and enforces certain rules on how cuts are made that, frankly makes it less useful as a SD style. La canne de armes is the "standard" style which includes more SD & combative training. And, of course, that is generic. You can find specific styles of la canne, such as my favorite, Vigny style.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[jarrod]

This is due to its street fighting roots. It makes perfect sense coming from french street gangs who were free to wear steel capped sabots (boots). Why kick with the shin when you can toe-kick with a metal tipped boot?

i know, but savate is the only style which allows for boots in competition. i was just saying that since their primary weapon is taken away when competing against muay thay, it hasn't held up as well as it could.

jf

 

[lklawson]

i know, but savate is the only style which allows for boots in competition.

And, of course, those competition boots aren't exactly "steel toed." IMS, called "slippers" after Chausson

i was just saying that since their primary weapon is taken away when competing against muay thay, it hasn't held up as well as it could.

Quite so.

It should be noted that in Danse de la Rue, knee kicks and shin kicks are not illegal.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[jarrod]

interesting! i haven't even heard of danse la rue, & i'm something of a history nerd. this may say something about the french tendency to avoid exportation.

jf

 

[lklawson]

interesting! i haven't even heard of danse la rue, & i'm something of a history nerd. this may say something about the french tendency to avoid exportation.

Craig Gemeiner of http://savateaustralia.com is the go-to guy for DdlR. He's done a boat load of research and development with it.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Jarrod G.]

I agree that the elitism of Savate is a big reason for it's not cathcing on. I must say that it's a really cool style, but good luck finding someone to teach it to you. Another reason I think that muay thai has become more popular in recent years than savate is that it allows the use of knees/elbows which further increases the dynamics of the fights. basically, western boxing is pure and simple whereas thai boxing is as close to no hold barred as you can get in a pro fighting style (besides the emrgence of MMA in recent years) Savate is really cool, unfortunately it falls somewhere between these two arts and is caught in a huge gray with everything else that falls in between.