Why I decided to come up with my own martial arts concept...

[fenglong]

Why would anyone come up with this idea anyway?
Watched too much Dragonball? Screwed up the backflip a little too often? Heard the call of the Youtube Mutant Ninja Turtles?

Or you probably enjoy getting bullied and laughed about. :bangahead:

Anyways, here are some of the reasons I got tired of the different kinds of training I have been through, please feel free to share your experience/advices...

• Combat and fitness training always resulted in a stronger but slower body.
• Techniques often are complicated and not flexible, nor natural.
• Training methods often relate to antiquated or unrelated knowledge.
• You are not supposed to question the teachings or even the teacher/master.
• There mainly seem to be 2 kinds of people training, brawlers and new-age disciples.

Besides these weird experiences I had, I also dislike how highly flexible stances usually result being really unstable too.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Why would anyone come up with this idea anyway?
Watched too much Dragonball? Screwed up the backflip a little too often? Heard the call of the Youtube Mutant Ninja Turtles?

Or you probably enjoy getting bullied and laughed about. :bangahead:

Anyways, here are some of the reasons I got tired of the different kinds of training I have been through, please feel free to share your experience/advices...

• Combat and fitness training always resulted in a stronger but slower body.
• Techniques often are complicated and not flexible, nor natural.
• Training methods often relate to antiquated or unrelated knowledge.
• You are not supposed to question the teachings or even the teacher/master.
• There mainly seem to be 2 kinds of people training, brawlers and new-age disciples.

Besides these weird experiences I had, I also dislike how highly flexible stances usually result being really unstable too.

I cannot speak to your experiences, but they are not mine.

I study a traditional art. Over time, my body has become both stronger and more flexible.
The stances and techniques we are taught seem very natural and straight-forward to me, seldom requiring complicated or difficult movements.
Training methods are far from antiquated, as our system was founded in the 1950's, and we are learning from a 2nd-generation instructor.
We question techniques all the time. Fortunately, our instructor is quite able to demonstrate the 'why' of the technique very clearly, in a manner that all can understand.
We have neither disciples nor brawlers in our dojo. We are not a cult of personality, nor do we permit bullying.

If I may make a suggestion, it would be that if these things are not what you have experienced, you have not been exposed to good teachings. If I ask my instructor why we peform a particular movement, he can and does show me by explanation and direct application; and it becomes instantly clear. One cannot fake that; if the technique did not work, he'd be unable to apply it or to show me how to efficiently and correctly apply it myself. All of our stances have to have stability; it is one of things we are constantly tested on as our instructor walks around the dojo.

Perhaps you need to seek other instruction, as opposed to rejecting all current martial arts and deciding to branch out on your own. But that's just my opinion.

I feel no need to 'do my own thing' because I am quite satisfied that what I am learning is efficient, powerful, effective, and does me a world of good to learn. I count myself extremely fortunate to be training where I am. And I am not a child; I'm a elder adult, quite capable of seeing through ******** and false promises. If it wasn't real, I believe I'd know it.

 

[fenglong]

I cannot speak to your experiences, but they are not mine.

I study a traditional art. Over time, my body has become both stronger and more flexible....

And not slower? I took breaks from training a few times for several weeks and once I got back to training I was actually faster than after constant training for several months. You never had this experience?
I figured especially the extra muscles building up to buffer up the "snap" effect in moves like hard straight punches and kicks may be the reason?

 

[Kong Soo Do]

This should be considered on a case-by-case basis. Some have done it in the past to circumvent the guidelines of an established art. Some have done it to rise more rapidly in rank i.e. start and art/become a 10th Dan (this can be legitimate, or not depending on the case-by-case basis).

Speaking only for myself, I began in a traditional art. I then trained in other traditional arts. Along the way however, I've had the opportunity to train in venues not normally open to students. For example, as a Deputy I also have six high-liabilty instructor ratings. This has allowed me to take training not normally open to private citizens. As a HL instructor, this has allowed my to take training not normally open to line officers. I feel that an instructor should always be otaininig continuing education. And if something more effective is learned, it should replace that which is less effective. As a result, the martial arts that I now teach is quite different from when I began 37 years ago. So I placed that training within the frame work of the traditional training venue and label. I simply retained my highest traditional rank using the new label.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

And not slower? I took breaks from training a few times for several weeks and once I got back to training I was actually faster than after constant training for several months. You never had this experience?
I figured especially the extra muscles building up to buffer up the "snap" effect in moves like hard straight punches and kicks may be the reason?

No. I was out for nearly a month due to illness and have just come back. I am significantly slower, weaker, less flexible. At my age, any break from training, even if I'm not sick, causes my abilities to decline rather quickly. Speed, focus, flexibility, endurance, strenth, you name it; they all suffer greatly even if I stop training for a week.

However, I will say this in support of your statement. When I was very much younger, if I overtrained (not martial arts, I was doing strength training at that time), if I did not give my body time to recover from strenuous weight lifting, my performance declined. I found I needed more sleep and a break between extreme sessions to maximize my gains. I am not in a situation now where I overtrain, so I do not have that problem anymore.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

When I was very much younger, if I overtrained (not martial arts, I was doing strength training at that time), if I did not give my body time to recover from strenuous weight lifting, my performance declined. I found I needed more sleep and a break between extreme sessions to maximize my gains. I am not in a situation now where I overtrain, so I do not have that problem anymore.

+1 on this!

I have to switch up between strength routines like SL 5x5 and body building routines like GVT. Going heavy month after month just has too much of a toll to pay. After a while you reach the point of diminishing return i.e. over-training. A good, solid week once very 3-4 months is needed for a recovery week, at least for me. And yes, plenty of sleep!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

And for what it is worth, I have always had some question about the ability of people to completely absorb the teaching of multiple systems in a given lifetime. If one begins as a child and trains continuously, perhaps it is possible to become a 'master' at more than one art, but for those with say ten years of total training to claim mastery of multiple systems? I very much doubt it. I have met too many '3rd dan' instructors who call themselves 'master' that I can knock on their asses, and I'm a brown belt with only about 4 years training starting at age 46. I do not tear down other systems; if that's what the requirements are, that's what they are. But mastery? I have some issues with that concept. I've met more than a couple young people who thought they knew it all, and were ready for their sokeship and to build their own system. To even my beginner's eyes, they don't know jack about their own systems, far less are they qualified to go it alone.

I recently saw a dojo open near me; part of a chain. The instructors are both black belts, call themselves 'master' and they have completed a SIX WEEK training program with no previous martial arts experience. To this I say BS.

I will not live long enough to attain anything even close to mastery of the art I train in; but I am satisfied with the pace of my training and I believe I am on the correct path for me. Start my own art? I would not presume that I had enough knowledge to do more than teach how to step or punch correctly to children. How then could I create my own system or even judge the correctness of my system? I know far too little to sit in judgment of the art I train in. Fortunately, I am old enough to realize my own ignorance.

 

[fenglong]

Lol! Oh well, everything humans get involved with becomes at least partially corrupted, goes for the MA ranking system as well.
Being satisfied with where you are and hungry enough to keep climbing is the way it is meant to be, at least in my opinion.
Chasing after certain ranks just to show off is a pure waste of time...

(....on a second thought..... "fast-fu" ?)

 

[oftheherd1]

Why would anyone come up with this idea anyway?
Watched too much Dragonball? Screwed up the backflip a little too often? Heard the call of the Youtube Mutant Ninja Turtles?

Or you probably enjoy getting bullied and laughed about. :bangahead:

I have trouble understanding those being tolerated in a serious MA school. Perhaps your emoticon was meant to indicate that was never so?

Anyways, here are some of the reasons I got tired of the different kinds of training I have been through, please feel free to share your experience/advices...

• Combat and fitness training always resulted in a stronger but slower body.

Getting muscle-bound could make you less flexible, but no MA training I have studied would do that.

• Techniques often are complicated and not flexible, nor natural.

My recollection is that in my brief studies of TKD, things were only taught one way, and everyone was expected to learn that way. In the Hapkido I studied, to my astonishment, one of the first things I learned was that things were taught in the way that seemed to work for most people, but that I would be foolish not to learn how to do it the way that worked best for me.

• Training methods often relate to antiquated or unrelated knowledge.

Any MA where that is true would surely be unusual. I would not think it could survive. Nor is that intended to mean all the old teaching is not valuable. How many ways for instance, can you be punched, and how many of those have been around for a very long time?

• You are not supposed to question the teachings or even the teacher/master.

Like Bill, I hadn't run across that myself. I never saw a respectfully asked question ignored, nor left unexplained.

• There mainly seem to be 2 kinds of people training, brawlers and new-age disciples.

The places I learned, those types seemed to usually be weeded out, usually by themselves.

Besides these weird experiences I had, I also dislike how highly flexible stances usually result being really unstable too.

I can only speak for myself. The stances I learned in TKD were very stable (well grounded), and yet flexible. They carried over to Hapkido for me. That said, footwork is very important to Hapkido. Improper footwork will usually result in a technique that doesn't work if you are lucky, or put you at great risk otherwise. But in the Hapkido I learned, we were never unstable.

Perhaps everything you are commenting on is just for discussion, not really your experiences. I certainly hope so. Otherwise, you might want to consider another art or school.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Lol! Oh well, everything humans get involved with becomes at least partially corrupted, goes for the MA ranking system as well.
Being satisfied with where you are and hungry enough to keep climbing is the way it is meant to be, at least in my opinion.
Chasing after certain ranks just to show off is a pure waste of time...

(....on a second thought..... "fast-fu" ?)

I do not chase rank. I am satisfied the the pace of my personal development as a martial artist. I will not reach the pinnacle in my lifetime; I started too late for that. Nevertheless, I have done something I consider important to me, and I continue on that path. Part of learning, in my opinion, is to relax and accept the training and trust that it will take you to good places. Again, I am fortunate in having a great instructor and a solid system to belong to. The most important traits I can bring to my training are patience and perseverance.

I have mentioned before that at some point, I would like to learn some aspects of Judo; I think it would be good to learn how to fall and how to throw more effectively as well as how to fight on the ground to some extent. But I have no illusions that I could master both Isshin-Ryu and Judo in my lifetime, nor am I interested in adding another belt to my wall; I just seek some additional ability to supplement what I am learning. I am not one of those I frequently see, twenty or thirty-something years old, having trained in 6 or 7 systems, claiming high rank in all of them, and feeling that they have learned all they can learn in each of them. I do not believe that is even possible.

 

[fenglong]

@oftheherd1
It is both, I have been to several schools and collected different kinds of experiences and the ones I listed are the majority.

@Bill Mattocks
Very buddhist attitude.

 

[Dirty Dog]

And not slower? I took breaks from training a few times for several weeks and once I got back to training I was actually faster than after constant training for several months. You never had this experience?

I suspect this is more an issue with perception than a real change. While it's true that bulking up can slow you down (more mass to move...), this is simply NOT something that is going to occur over a span of a few weeks. Human physiology just doesn't work that way.

I figured especially the extra muscles building up to buffer up the "snap" effect in moves like hard straight punches and kicks may be the reason?

Um... maybe you're doing it wrong....

 

[fenglong]

@Dirty Dog
....a bit more specific please?

 

[fenglong]

Most of my time I have trained Hung Gar Kungfu, Taekwondo and Kickboxing and I while we have always been told to keep stepping in TKD sparring, needless to say we never used the actual Hung Gar stances in Kungfu sparring =P.
Besides preserving the culture and a little leg training for strength (mabu with vertical thighs) and balance I really doubt their use in real combat situations. At least I myself have never used most of them in actual combat.

 

[Cyriacus]

In short, its unfortunate You got a bad outcome out of MA Training. But the answer isnt 'inventing' a Concept that already exists.
Get Fit.
That is all.
If You cannot or will not do MA Training but want to be better at applying a Combative Method, get Fit.
Also, You have an odd spectrum there. Hung Gar, now dont quote Me on this, takes a while to gain capability at. What System of TKD and Kickboxing? Because theres ALOT of Variations on them. They dont have any one encompassing identity. You seem to imply that all three wound up focusing on Kicking, which I consider to be a horrible idea.

 

[fenglong]

Well "get fit" is a weird advice. I have never seen a marathon runner succeed in combat because he is fit.
Don't you think what we train is essential too?
Please no such assumptions, I simply started off with these 3 arts, TKD was a mixture of traditional and sports systems, sometimes had a bit Hapkido and Gumdo mixed in as well.
At the beginning I was practicing these 3 styles so I could train at least 3 hours a day in my school, later they all showed their benefits, Kickboxing for hardening and sparring, Hung Gar and TKD for techniques and flexibility and in combat situations I was able to get used to what worked out best.
Later I also added Taijiquan.
I tried a lot of different styles when I was not satisfied anymore and I am not saying they were bad, I am not saying any style is bad, I admire most of them, I just never completely like a single style. Instead of mixing up stuff I have not mastered yet or even messing with a style I have not mastered and not fully understood, I rather try to form my expectations into something from the scratch. So far it looks a bit like a mixture of some Karate and Taijiquan...

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Well "get fit" is a weird advice. I have never seen a marathon runner succeed in combat because he is fit.
Don't you think what we train is essential too?
Please no such assumptions, I simply started off with these 3 arts, TKD was a mixture of traditional and sports systems, sometimes had a bit Hapkido and Gumdo mixed in as well.
At the beginning I was practicing these 3 styles so I could train at least 3 hours a day in my school, later they all showed their benefits, Kickboxing for hardening and sparring, Hung Gar and TKD for techniques and flexibility and in combat situations I was able to get used to what worked out best.
Later I also added Taijiquan.
I tried a lot of different styles when I was not satisfied anymore and I am not saying they were bad, I am not saying any style is bad, I admire most of them, I just never completely like a single style. Instead of mixing up stuff I have not mastered yet or even messing with a style I have not mastered and not fully understood, I rather try to form my expectations into something from the scratch. So far it looks a bit like a mixture of some Karate and Taijiquan...

Have you ever heard the old phrase, "Jack of all trades, master of none?" While there are many who excel at having a smattering of knowledge in many disciplines, they can hardly be said to have a deep understanding of any of them.

I would frankly not want to train under a teacher who had 'tried' a bunch of systems, not mastered any of them, and decided to just make something up because they felt they could do better. That's just me.

 

[fenglong]

A good fighter isn't necessarily a good teacher and vice versa, I'd say the same goes with inventing something. Maybe I just felt like doing something with a certain flow which I couldn't find in the styles I "tried" for 10+ years, nor in the styles I just tried for some hours/days.
Maybe that flow works out, or maybe its just poo. =) But I won't feel comfortable teaching or uploading videos before I reached a certain level, until then I just grind for inspiration...

 

[Jenna]

Why would anyone come up with this idea anyway?
Watched too much Dragonball? Screwed up the backflip a little too often? Heard the call of the Youtube Mutant Ninja Turtles?

Or you probably enjoy getting bullied and laughed about. :bangahead:

Anyways, here are some of the reasons I got tired of the different kinds of training I have been through, please feel free to share your experience/advices...

• Combat and fitness training always resulted in a stronger but slower body.
• Techniques often are complicated and not flexible, nor natural.
• Training methods often relate to antiquated or unrelated knowledge.
• You are not supposed to question the teachings or even the teacher/master.
• There mainly seem to be 2 kinds of people training, brawlers and new-age disciples.

Besides these weird experiences I had, I also dislike how highly flexible stances usually result being really unstable too.

I think there is an element of conceit in those that feel they can create a new art.

Think of those founders who have done just that: Gracie, Parker, Ueshiba, Hatsumi, Kano, Presas etc etc. They were conceited enough to think they could do it better. And they did.

Of course they were each exceptional talents in their own disciplines.

Are you? I guess time itself will be your ultimate proving. I wish you well with your endeavour.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I think there is an element of conceit in those that feel they can create a new art.

Think of those founders who have done just that: Gracie, Parker, Ueshiba, Hatsumi, Kano, Presas etc etc. They were conceited enough to think they could do it better. And they did.

Of course they were each exceptional talents in their own disciplines.

Are you? I guess time itself will be your ultimate proving. I wish you well with your endeavour.

I take your point, but I'd like to add to your statement.

What you don't have is the list of those who have tried and failed. I suspect it's a bit longer. Like 10,000 times longer. And of those who succeeded, how many of them piddled around with a large number of arts, mastering none of them, and then ran off and created something new that was superior to what they had never mastered in the first place? I'd put that number somewhat lower than even the list you gave.

I would like to say that I wish such people well, but let's be honest. If I set myself up as soke of my new style that I just made up, and I manage to con some students into learning from me, I'm ripping them off, because I am not qualified to teach martial arts in any way, shape, or form. It may be earnest and well-meant fraud, but fraud it remains. There are too many make-um-up bogus arts already, and people pay good money to learn nothing but some mystical mumbo-jumbo that does no one any good. How about learning an art and then maybe, someday, teaching it? I don't see what's so hard about that.