Why did you leave Shotokan?

[oldnewbie]

I've been reading alot of great opinons, and wealth of infomation here, and I am very grateful to MT for having the board available to us "newbies" in Martial Arts. When you don't have people around you into Martial Arts, it's difficult to get answers to some questions. (Although, being an old guys in class, I'm not shy about asking "Why?")

I have been studing Shotokan for a couple years, and find it suits me now. It was not a choice on my part, simply where I went first.

In reading several posts, and profiles, I see that some of you started in/taught Shotokan.

My question is this:

If you "began" in Shotokan, what caused you to leave/change?

Was it the school?
Was it the instructor?
Was it the Art?
Did you earn your Black Belt, then change?
Did it not provide you what you were looking for?

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I did Shotokan for a couple years in college. I left for two reasons:

1) It is not very practical. Movements are too linear, too traditional and not very street effective.

2) It has got to be one of the most boring systems I have ever seen. Once you learn Kanku Dai, there really isn't anything else to learn.

 

[oldnewbie]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
I did Shotokan for a couple years in college. I left for two reasons:

1) It is not very practical. Movements are too linear, too traditional and not very street effective.



Could you elaborate on this a little more? My instructor has us moving around our opponents, picking our targets, and moving again. How is this not effective?

2) It has got to be one of the most boring systems I have ever seen. Once you learn Kanku Dai, there really isn't anything else to learn.

Boring? Not yet, but as I said, only a couple years myself.

You mentioned Kanku Dai, .. did you learn that one, or are simply sating an opinion? No disrepect meant, just trying to figure things out in my head.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

These were just my reasons for quitting. I had done Kenpo prior to and again after Shotokan. For me, Kenpo is much more circular, much more street oriented, and much more complex.

Kanku Dai is considered a "Master Key" kata containing most of Shotokan's most important techniques. Many of the other katas take their techniques directly from Kanku Dai. Kenpo has a very different approach and Kenpo katas (to me anyway) are much more varied from each other.

As far as linear vs circular, that reference is to the strikes. You may walk around your opponents in a circle, but I bet you are still hitting them with straight punches and kicks.

As far as street effectiveness goes, traditional Japanese Karate is just not street oriented. There is little realism in the drills. I could go on about this forever, but I think if you dig into it, you will find defenders and detractors for Shotokan, for Karate, and for traditional martial arts in general. I happen to think that traditional martial arts training and Karate are passe.

 

[oldnewbie]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
As far as linear vs circular, that reference is to the strikes. You may walk around your opponents in a circle, but I bet you are still hitting them with straight punches and kicks.

Yup, absolutely.

[/B][/QUOTE]
As far as street effectiveness goes, traditional Japanese Karate is just not street oriented. There is little realism in the drills. I could go on about this forever, but I think if you dig into it, you will find defenders and detractors for Shotokan, for Karate, and for traditional martial arts in general. I happen to think that traditional martial arts training and Karate are passe. [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks for the input. Seems like there are a ton of Kenpo/Kempo fans on this forum

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Yes there are a ton of Kenpoists here. I am not such a big fan of Kenpo anymore either. I found Shotokan limited and boring (my perspective -- others love it), but I find Kenpo is just full of mumbo jumbo, excessive reverence for the past, and way too much politics. Ihave been studying Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and I find the training method and the technique variety really refreshing.

 

[Shinzu]

i trained in shotkan uder several great senseis, but the best sensei was toyotato miyazaki in new york. head of the us shotokai. this man was awesome.

due to money issues and the arrival of my first child i needed to stop studying shotokan. i was 1st kyu on the way to black belt. when i moved to pennsylvania there were no shotokan schools here. the closest one is 1 hour away and they offer no morning classes... i work 2nd shift. i switched to tang soo do, which is like a sister system. the forms are almost exact and i was able to pick up where i left off. i do miss shotokan but i am happy with where i am now.

 

[kishoto]

I have been studying shotokan for 32 years.For those who say it has no street value they do not understand how to adapt to modern situations any style must grow and develop as time passes such organization like the jka stops this from happening. As for kata kanku dia is one of the kata i reguire for second dan testing there are many more advance katas.People that put down shotokan usally do not have the will power to withstand the intense training that is part of shotokan

 

[Bammx2]

I studied shotokan for a few years....way back when....and I made 1st dan.
My instructor was as hard as they come!
So hard in fact,20+ years later,I am astonished at what some of these schools call a "work out"....what whinning sissys'!
But I left shotokan because it got boring to me as well.
I hate katas and always will.
Not to mention that 4 months after recieving my BB,I got the snot kicked out of me by some streetfighter who never trained or even excercised a day in his life,didn't help my enthusiasm much either.
It was way to linear for me and everything was layed out as gospel and there was no room for free thinking.
I got tired of hearing.."thats the way its always been done and you will not question it" or "if it can't be traced as a traditional art form,then its got to be useless".
For those who love shotokan,good on them.Maybe they need that structure.Drove me nuts after a while.
But what I will say about shotokan (and I got my 1st dan in shoriryu as well) and shorinryu is; if you want to study a traditional system (japanese),I will ALWAYS put shotokan at the top of my list of recommendations.Just pick your instructors wisely.
It might not have been what I was looking for...but it does not mean its a bad thing and it just might work for you!

 

[arnisador]

I studied briefly with an instructor who had to pass through town every few weeks to visit his daughter. When his visitation schedule and meeting place changed, it ended our training!

 

[MMAfighter]

Do you spar in shotokan?

 

[Adept]

I tried Shotokan for a short while. For the reasons listed above, I didn't stay long. I already had a black belt in TKD when I started there, and the head instructor had some sort of chip on his shoulder about trying to prove his black belts were better than me.

Several things actually put me off. In one drill, we faced one another about arms length apart, and tried to punch the other person in the trunk. The object was to wait for the other person to begin their punch, and then react as fast as you could by punching them. I was bemused by this, but stuck with it as it was my first night there. After we'd been doing this for a few minutes, the instructor told us to punch the other person even if they only feinted (feints were initially encouraged). I was now even more confused. Surely the purpose of a feint is to make your opponent commit to a predictable course of action? Why encourage responding in such a way to a feint? Won't that make the students much more predictable during a fight?

All the stances were deep and linear, the moves were hard and blocky, there was no dedicated self defense instruction and the traditional instruction was worthless in terms of self defense.

The instructor repeatedly said things like "If you have excellent kata, you are an excellent martial artist and fighter..." This set my alarm bells ringing, and I didn't go back the next week.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Yes there are a ton of Kenpoists here. I am not such a big fan of Kenpo anymore either. I found Shotokan limited and boring (my perspective -- others love it), but I find Kenpo is just full of mumbo jumbo, excessive reverence for the past, and way too much politics. Ihave been studying Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and I find the training method and the technique variety really refreshing.

Oh boy, I think we have a lot in common!

I studied Shotokan unoficially in High School with a friend who had a black belt. She taught me the forms through brown belt. She died before graduation. If I could have found a good school, I would have continued after leaving school - if only out of respect. However, nearly a quarter century later, I'm glad I didn't. Not to knock it; taught well nearly ANY martial art can be effective.

I would have to say that styles such as EPAK and BJJ will get provide a beginning student more effective self-defence training - and much earlier. Don't get me wrong, though, I would not want to face a high-level dedicated practioner of Shotokan in the street. Then again, I wouldn't want to face ANYONE in the street could I help it.