Why did my ITF instructor give me EKF gloves?

[dvcochran]

No they don't. ITF is a federation. If I write ITF instructor, that means that he is a an ITF instructor. The style is Chang Hon.

Nope.

 

[Metal]

No they don't. ITF is a federation. If I write ITF instructor, that means that he is a an ITF instructor. The style is Chang Hon.

Sorry, but as Choi Hong Hi states in his book "Taekwon-Do - The Art of Self-Defense", the name 'Chang Hon' was Choi Hong Hi's pseudonym/pen name as a calligrapher. He used that name to sum up his 20 hyeongs/forms under a common moniker. Since the Karate forms that were practiced in the Oh Do Kwan and other Taekwondo schools were from the Sho-Rin and Sho-Rei Schools, Choi Hong Hi just followed that tradition.

Later people started calling the pre-, or sometimes also the early (pre-Sine Wave) ITF Taekwon-Do, Chang Hon Taekwondo. Some call it 'Traditional' Taekwon-Do.

And while people still talk about 'WTF Taekwondo' and 'ITF Taekwon-Do', things in the ITFs are different than the situation in the World Taekwondo 'world'. While World Taekwondo is supposed to only govern the sports side of Taekwondo and leaves technical standards, (the majority of) education and belt tests in the hands of the Kukkiwon, the three ITFs keep sports, grading, education and technical standards all under the umbrella of the International Taekwondo-Do Federation.

As I posted, the ITF today is split into three federations. Therefore it would be great if you could get back to my question and answer which ITF your instructor belongs to.

 

[Dirty Dog]

No they don't. ITF is a federation.

Actually, the ITF is at least three federations these days. I'm surprised you don't know this.

The style is Chang Hon.

This is also wrong. Chang Hon refers to a formset developed by General Choi, with assistance of several other practitioners. It is not the name of the style he taught. The name of the style is Taekwon-Do. This is pretty basic stuff.

 

[Acronym]

Actually, the ITF is at least three federations these days. I'm surprised you don't know this.

Yes it is. The name refers to a federation, of which there are several current incarnations all claiming to be the legitimate one.

The name of the style is Taekwon-Do. This is pretty basic stuff.

So if I speak instead of write and say what my style is, then there is no distinction? Do you realise how wrong you are?

 

[Acronym]

the three ITFs keep sports, grading, education and technical standards all under the umbrella of the International Taekwondo-Do Federation.
.

So what does Earl Weiss train and teach?

 

[Acronym]

The ITF practises a style of taekwondo known as Chang Hon TaeKwonDo, though colloquially this is often called ITF-style

Since General Choi consider only his style of TaeKwonDo legitimate, he did not give it a formal style name, apart from calling his patterns collectively Chang Hon.

There is no sign that reads Chang Hon TaeKwonDo, but that would be the closest to a style name there is.

 

[Acronym]

There are organizations who follow the same curriculums yet are NOT members of ITF.

Therefore, the ITF could not be that name of the style.

 

[Acronym]

Sorry, but as Choi Hong Hi states in his book "Taekwon-Do - The Art of Self-Defense", the name 'Chang Hon' was Choi Hong Hi's pseudonym/pen name as a calligrapher. He used that name to sum up his 20 hyeongs/forms under a common moniker. Since the Karate forms that were practiced in the Oh Do Kwan and other Taekwondo schools were from the Sho-Rin and Sho-Rei Schools, Choi Hong Hi just followed that tradition.

Later people started calling the pre-, or sometimes also the early (pre-Sine Wave) ITF Taekwon-Do, Chang Hon Taekwondo. Some call it 'Traditional' Taekwon-Do.

And while people still talk about 'WTF Taekwondo' and 'ITF Taekwon-Do', things in the ITFs are different than the situation in the World Taekwondo 'world'. While World Taekwondo is supposed to only govern the sports side of Taekwondo and leaves technical standards, (the majority of) education and belt tests in the hands of the Kukkiwon, the three ITFs keep sports, grading, education and technical standards all under the umbrella of the International Taekwondo-Do Federation.
.

The international taekwondo federation was launched in 1966. The style they train existed before that.

 

[Metal]

The international taekwondo federation was launched in 1966. The style they train existed before that.

Do you wanna know how the 'style' was called prior to the formation of the International Taekwon-Do Federation?

As Dirty Dog had already pointed out, Choi Hong-Hi trained and taught Taekwon-Do. He was aware that having several styles or different names for the same style would hinder the worldwide spread and establishment of Taekwon-Do.

Wanna know how others called it back then?

See attached the Poster for a Demonstration lead by Choi Hong Hi in Germany in 1965. Besides getting the names of Choi Hong Hi and Kwon Jae Hwa wrong, they advertised it as Karate.

Early Korean Masters around that time went by the name Tae Soo Do, Tang Soo Do and/or their Kwan names.

And as me and also Dirty Dog already posted: The name 'Chang Hon' was used to name a set of forms, just as other forms were grouped under the names Sho-Rin and Sho-Rei.

Later people started using the term Chang Hon Taekwon-Do to refer to the Taekwondo which was taught prior to the formation of the ITF. However, the only places where that style of Taekwon-Do is really popular and going strong, are probably the US and Germany, as these are countries where Taekwon-Do was taught before the ITF was established.

So what does Earl Weiss train and teach?

Not sure why you ask me. I'd guess he'd say Taekwon-Do, but it's best if you ask him directly. He'll also probably will let you know with which association he's affiliated and which sparring gear he recommends to his students, if you're interested.

In case you wanna know how I call the style that I train: I call it Taekwondo. When talking to someone who's having a different Taekwondo or Taekwon-Do background, or if someone's interested in more details, then I may refer to Kukkiwon Taekwondo.

There are organizations who follow the same curriculums yet are NOT members of ITF.

Therefore, the ITF could not be that name of the style.

I'm pretty sure that Choi Hong Hi never called his style ITF Taekwon-Do, as all other styles of Taekwon-Do and Taekwondo were imitations to him.

Did you ever 'xerox' a sheet of paper on a Canon or Kyocera xerox machine?



Congrats on being Top Poster Of Month!

As you can see above: It is possible to reply to several posts in one reply.

 

[Acronym]

As Dirty Dog had already pointed out, Choi Hong-Hi trained and taught Taekwon-Do. He was aware that having several styles or different names for the same style would hinder the worldwide spread and establishment of Taekwon-Do.

General Chois view is not generally accepted. If you were to name the style he created it would have to be Chang Hon, since the system predates the launch of the federation that you claim is the name of the style. And since plenty of organisations train the same curriculum without being part of the ITF.

 

[Acronym]

I'm pretty sure that Choi Hong Hi never called his style ITF Taekwon-Do,

You were the one claiming the style is called ITF.

 

[dvcochran]

So what does Earl Weiss train and teach?

Just do a Google search for him. It will open your eyes. Not convinced about your mind yet.

 

[Acronym]

Just do a Google search for him. It will open your eyes. Not convinced about your mind yet.

That was a rhetorical question.

 

[dvcochran]

There are organizations who follow the same curriculums yet are NOT members of ITF.

Therefore, the ITF could not be that name of the style.

Do you really not hear how circular your statement is?

 

[Metal]

General Chois view is not generally accepted. If you were to name the style he created it would have to be Chang Hon, since the system predates the launch of the federation that you claim is the name of the style. And since plenty of organisations train the same curriculum without being part of the ITF.

So what about calling it Choi Hong Hi Taekwon-Do? Or Taekwon-Do Oh Do Kwan? Oh wait, the Oh Do Kwan still exists and their Taekwondo is way different from Choi Hong Hi's Taekwon-Do.

Since you're saying "the style he created": What would you say if I'd throw in that he didn't create a style?

And what about the evolution of Choi Hong Hi's Taekwon-Do?
How do you want to differentiate between the pre-ITF, pre-Sine-Wave and current ITF Taekwon-Do?

Btw, I never claimed that the pre-ITF style of Taekwon-Do is called ITF Taekwon-Do.

You were the one claiming the style is called ITF.

Yes, when it comes to the Taekwon-Do in the ITFs that's right and I will continue to do so. And when it comes to Olympic sparring I'll call it WT-Taekwondo. Or maybe I'll just call it World Taekwondo...
When it comes to Choi Hong Hi's pre-ITF Taeskwon-Do I'll continue to call it Chang Hon Taekwon-Do. Or may call it "so called 'Traditional' Taekwon-Do". ITF Taekwon-Do I'll differentiate into pre-Sine Wave and current ITF Taekwon-Do.

 

[Acronym]

How do you want to differentiate between the pre-ITF, pre-Sine-Wave and current ITF Taekwon-Do?


.

The parties involved tend to take the route to either label their school traditional TaeKwonDo or simply the name of their independent organization, for example TAGB TaeKwonDo.

Aside from pre sine wave, they don't have the Juche pattern which came later, and the blocks are slightly different. The first block in Chon Ji tends to be straight in the non sine wave schools, and bent in the ITF affiliated ones. Not a huge difference but there are small things here and there that differ.

 

[Acronym]

Since you're saying "the style he created": What would you say if I'd throw in that he didn't create a style?
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I do not adhere to those who consider the Kukkiwon a separate art. There is one TaeKwonDo. The technical differences between the KKW and ITF/Chang Hon are much smaller than you think. Had we sparred the same competitions, there would be next to no difference between how the competitors fight.