Who here is backing up its striking art with grappling?

[Bushido]

Karate and judo ?
Muay Thai and bjj ?
Boxing and wrestling ?

I dont search trouble, FAR from that. But only if a fight happen, I want to be fully prepared. Personnaly, I backup my karate (main art) with bjj. I think that even if your striking is effective, it is essential to know ground work, you never know: you could slip, get hit, ect. It is not always easy to stop someone with strikes.

-Bushido

 

[Kempojujutsu]

It's part of Belt ranks. It is not separated from the main course. We teach one art (Kempojujutsu) which deals in all ranges including on the ground.
Bob:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Bushido

I think that even if your striking is effective, it is essential to know ground work, you never know: you could slip, get hit, ect. It is not always easy to stop someone with strikes.

I've added BJJ to my Modern Arnis. Since the BJJ instructor also teaches JKD I'm taking that too, but it was the BJJ I went for, not the JKD. Modern Arnis has standing grappling techniques--locks and takedowns--but doesn't really have groundwork. Since I believe the losing party in a fight is very likely to go to grappling with an attempt to down his opponent to regain an advantage, I thought it would be useful to have--and frankly I was curious about BJJ after all the hype.

 

[sweeper]

one thing I have noticed about some of my freinds who cross train in a grappaling art or have previous experience in such an art is some times they go for a hold or an armbar, or just position when they should be striking.. I don't know how you would get around that problem without including striking in your sparring.

 

[deadhand31]

My school's TKD training is backed up with hapkido, hosinsul, and backsudo. I feel it complements TKD very well, teaching to submit the opponent if they get in close. It also helps in confrontations when there are witnesses around, since hapkido and hosinsul tends not to be flashy.

 

[TangSooGuy]

Hapkido is integrated into our Tang Soo Do curriculum.

Learning to grapple and to deal with people who grapple rather than try to strike is an important part of self defense development in my opinion. I actually haven't seen schools around me which are for primarily striking arts that DON'T integrate some method of grappling as well....

 

[arnisador]

My BJJ instructor typically discusses both the self-defense ("now start hitting him") and sport ("this sets up the arm lock") aspects of techniques. We're often reminded that in some positions you should probably strike.

 

[bscastro]

We are studying some grappling as part of my instructor's JKD curriculum. Apart from being an important part of being well-rounded, it is also fun and a great workout.

As for striking while grappling, we sometimes do ground drills with headgear and bag gloves as well as a little sparring with some striking.

Bryan

 

[Blindside]

Let me make one thing clear, I DON'T like grappling, I don't enjoy it, it just isn't fun for me.

So anyway, I have about a year of BJJ and a bit of judo under my dingy white belt, I'm not terribly good at them, but they taught me ALOT. I am now comfortable at grappling range and am familiar with alot of wrestler and other grapplers initial attacks, I know enough not to fall for the easiest submissions, and I can usually reverse someone if they get a dominant position on me. And that is exactly what I wanted out of the grappling education that I got my *** kicked so many times to learn .

I do have a hard time integrating, but I've been working on just getting control positions and hammering with strikes, so far it is working out OK, I do need to get back into grappling, just to maintain those skills, as I don't get to test them enough in my kenpo school.

Just my experience,

Lamont

 

[sweeper]

I'm with you blindside, I hate grappling. I just have absolutly no natural ability or intuition with it, I'm the slowest grappling student you could imagine ;-). But I know enough where I could beat someone with absolutly no skill on the ground.

 

[cdhall]

At both schools I have attended there has been an awareness of grappling and both my teachers have studied grappling somewhat and have held grappling nights/workshops and/or seminars. There is no real groundfighting in EPAK.

However, currently one of our teachers is teaching grappling in his class. He has been to some BJJ schools and worked out with somme Greco-Roman guys and College Wrestlers. He has now taught about everything he knows. 2-3 escapes and counters. Some bridging and throws. Mounts, Guards and Side Mounts. 2-3 Armbars and Chokes. A few points about takedowns.

That is about all he has, but he says when he goes to a grappling school to "roll" with them, he does hold up OK, and this against guys who know what they are doing. So I'm not studying another art, but I want to concentrate on enough grappling to not panic or get taken out instantly when I hit the ground. I think I have seen enough and I go to this one class to work on it. I think this counts as "a little bit."

 

[sumdumguy]

:rofl: I have to disagree! there are far many more things about ground fighting within the system of Kenpo then most probably realize. And likewise for the grappling arts to striking..... :asian:

 

[Bushido]

Hey guys, it is always good to see open-minded people like you that are conscient that if they are in a fight (unvolountarely), it might go to the ground. Of course, the goal is to stay keep it standing but, who knows what can happen?

It is extremely important to stay open to the different martial practices. Some people hide behind what they already know and are afraid to progress. Some others claim that their style will prevent them form going to the ground: THIS is the goal, staying on your feet, but on the streets you might "freeze" (witch is generally the case ), you might "slip", you might get hit and your ending down there: better know what to do. This is especially true for women.

Recently, some hard karate styles like Seidokaikan, Maki-Dojo, Byakurenkai adopted some grappling, there must be a reason.

Sometimes tradition can become a trap...

-Bushido

 

[cdhall]

I'm sorry. I'm confused. I'll restate my positions.

We have a lot of takedowns and follow up strikes.
We have a lot of joint attacks, sprains, hyperextensions and stuff either explicit or implicit in the system.
Encounter with Danger is the only technique I think I know where you attack/defend yourself from the ground, so we don' t have a lot of "groundfighting" that I have encountered.

I have decided that Snapping Twig works well when someone is on you in a mount. I mean, they Fall into your handsword...

I know we have some standup grappling in EPAK but I meant we don' t have anything that looks like College Wrestling, Greco-Roman Wrestling or BJJ really and I am currently supplimenting my Kenpo with just enough "groundfighting" from other "systems" to allow me to:
a) Not panic
b) work on an escape
c) avoid some easy/common "traps"
d) know how I could get it out if I can pull it off
e) get back up/escape if given a few of the common opportunities

Mr. Duffy has a good black belt who moved to CA and is now doing Machado Jiu-Jitsu. This guy says that a Black Belt in Kenpo and a Purple in Jiu-Jitsu are just about "it." I think he means that EPAK can use some additional JJ emphasis, but not a whole "systems worth." I agree so far. I hope I didn't totally misunderstand sumdumguy.
:asian:

 

[Rainman]

I know we have some standup grappling in EPAK

Does every technique = some?

I hope I didn't totally misunderstand sumdumguy.

I don't believe you did. I think you stated where you are at in your own personal evolution. My opinion is to have him down for a seminar. To see and feel what he does would be to remove the doubt. There are many discourses within our art- instead of going outside it why not find someone who already does it within it?

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by sumdumguy

I have to disagree! there are far many more things about ground fighting within the system of Kenpo then most probably realize.

Without commenting on this particular assertion, it seems to me that many arts are saying "Groundfighting! It's in there!" these days, and I am skeptical in most cases.

 

[Bushido]

I agree with you on that!

-bushido

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by cdhall

This guy says that a Black Belt in Kenpo and a Purple in Jiu-Jitsu are just about "it." I think he means that EPAK can use some additional JJ emphasis, but not a whole "systems worth."

In BJJ it is common to have learned (essentially) the whole catalogue of techniques by blue belt (the first belt). The rest is largely about making them work, and usually a blue belt is pretty good, so a purple belt (the next one) would be even better. So, I'd figure this person meant he knew pretty much the whole system and had developed fair facility in using it.

 

[sweeper]

man blue belts in BJJ are pritty damn tough to fight on the ground..

even if you have groundfighting in your system sometimes it's good to go outside of the system to see how other people do it. I would be willing to bet alot of it is very simular or kinesiologicly speaking the same but applied in a diffrent way, it might help give you ideas and might be easyer than getting people to come in for seminars all the time.

 

[cdhall]

Originally posted by Rainman



I don't believe you did. I think you stated where you are at in your own personal evolution. My opinion is to have him down for a seminar. To see and feel what he does would be to remove the doubt. There are many discourses within our art- instead of going outside it why not find someone who already does it within it?

Yes, sir. I met this guy when my instructor had him in for a seminar. It was the plan to have the guy down twice a year or so and have him continue to work grappling with us. I like the fact that he is a Kenpo guy who has formally studied Jiu-Jitsu and this is an appeal. This same guys says it is really just "Kenpo on the ground." He seems to think there is a lot we can apply from what we alredy know. In a very similar situation, I have used some of what I know from EPAK while on the ground and the Concepts and Principles did apply. That was also encouraging to me.

Thank you.
:asian: