Where Does Taekwondo End, and Gymnastics Begin?

Rumy73

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True practical fighting and people that want to learn true martial arts skills to protect themselves. It will draw in the kids and families that want to do sport that will do nothing but self gratitude. Don't get me wrong. Self improvement is part of the martial arts but not flipping around. You don't see that in other arts besides Chinese arts and TKD. But chinese arts also focus on pure selfdefense as well. Also add hyungs do contribute to fighting but yes it is not fighting.

There is a certain degree of showmanship in a variety of martial arts. In regards to this issue, it demonstrates the divided opinions of what tkd should look like. Frankly, the majority of schools have promoted this high octane, youth-centric paradigm. When tkd decided that a child was worthy of black belt, it ruled out maturity and wisdom (sorry, folks, maybe you think your teen is mature but let us be real wisdom and maturity come with age and cannot be rushed.) Physicality is highlighted in tkd over the latter points. Young ppl are capable of it. Older ppl not so much. That is why you do not find so many adult students.
 

Dirty Dog

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There is a certain degree of showmanship in a variety of martial arts. In regards to this issue, it demonstrates the divided opinions of what tkd should look like. Frankly, the majority of schools have promoted this high octane, youth-centric paradigm.

I'm going to have to ask you to provide something resembling a basis other than your limited experience to support this claim. While I make no pretense of being able to speak for the entire TKD community, this certainly is not true in my area.

When tkd decided that a child was worthy of black belt, it ruled out maturity and wisdom

"TKD" didn't decide any such thing. There are plenty of schools and plenty of systems that do not endorse the baby black belt thing. Likewise, there are plenty of non-TKD systems and schools that do endorse the baby black belt thing. Maybe you'd like to rethink this and try again?

(sorry, folks, maybe you think your teen is mature but let us be real wisdom and maturity come with age and cannot be rushed.)

No argument there. Some people die of old age without developing either.
 
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Rumy73

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I'm going to have to ask you to provide something resembling a basis other than your limited experience to support this claim. While I make pretense of being able to speak for the entire TKD community, this certainly is not true in my area.



"TKD" didn't decide any such thing. There are plenty of schools and plenty of systems that do not endorse the baby black belt thing. Likewise, there are plenty of non-TKD systems and schools that do endorse the baby black belt thing. Maybe you'd like to rethink this and try again?



No argument there. Some people die of old age without developing either.

Thanks for the flaming, yet you cite me for TOS violations. Hypocritical.
 

TKDTony2179

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There is a certain degree of showmanship in a variety of martial arts. In regards to this issue, it demonstrates the divided opinions of what tkd should look like. Frankly, the majority of schools have promoted this high octane, youth-centric paradigm. When tkd decided that a child was worthy of black belt, it ruled out maturity and wisdom (sorry, folks, maybe you think your teen is mature but let us be real wisdom and maturity come with age and cannot be rushed.) Physicality is highlighted in tkd over the latter points. Young ppl are capable of it. Older ppl not so much. That is why you do not find so many adult students.

TKD in the early years promoted that everyone can learn TKD. I was 27 when I first started TKD. *many people are surprise to hear I am going on 35 next yr. Still my 360's are just as good as the young as not better. * The belt is cloth you wear on your waist given to you by your instructor or grandmaster saying you passed their requirements. No maturity in that. Just knowledge and muscle memory.

Courtesy
Intergrity
Perservance
Self control
Indomitable spirit
These are the things we all should try to live by and kids should be learning. Also don't forget the student oath "I shall never misuse TKD.
 

TKDTony2179

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The thing is there is hardly any kind of promotion of TKD as a self defense or combat art. Which is what it first started out as. Now if it keep adding things of tricking it won't be a art of practical fighting. Joon Rhee added dance choreography to his demos back in the day. Do you think that inspired people to come learn how to protect themselves or join a martial art that teaches how to be fit and dance? I am sure people thought oh that will be fun to do dance choreographed forms. Just like most parents think of karate as a daycare for kids. Picking up kids after school so they can run around and punching and kicking is not my style.

It will take the people of the traditional style to start promoting more practical side of the art. Otherwise this is road we are headed down.
 

Rumy73

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The thing is there is hardly any kind of promotion of TKD as a self defense or combat art. Which is what it first started out as. Now if it keep adding things of tricking it won't be a art of practical fighting. Joon Rhee added dance choreography to his demos back in the day. Do you think that inspired people to come learn how to protect themselves or join a martial art that teaches how to be fit and dance? I am sure people thought oh that will be fun to do dance choreographed forms. Just like most parents think of karate as a daycare for kids. Picking up kids after school so they can run around and punching and kicking is not my style.

It will take the people of the traditional style to start promoting more practical side of the art. Otherwise this is road we are headed down.

You have point. Those interested in harder sparring styles are attracted by MMA or the like; in the case of self defense, ppl are drawn to krav maga for its practicality.
 

Rumy73

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TKD in the early years promoted that everyone can learn TKD. I was 27 when I first started TKD. *many people are surprise to hear I am going on 35 next yr. Still my 360's are just as good as the young as not better. * The belt is cloth you wear on your waist given to you by your instructor or grandmaster saying you passed their requirements. No maturity in that. Just knowledge and muscle memory.

Courtesy
Intergrity
Perservance
Self control
Indomitable spirit
These are the things we all should try to live by and kids should be learning. Also don't forget the student oath "I shall never misuse TKD.

I am not saying those values are totally absent. However, they are not typically at the forefront either. When i studied sbd, the vibe was more inner focused, character oriented. Tkd was more about a belt chase and competition/flashy moves.
 

Thousand Kicks

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There are already an awful lot of people who view TKD as a sport rather than a Martial Art, and as being ineffective for self defense. Do we really want to make it seem even less useful?
And for the record, nobody has suggested doing poomsae in a fight, but the techniques and concepts which are imparted through poomsae training are absolutely useful in a fight.
The same cannot be said of the 720 degree back flip triple lutz cameltoe kick.

I will concede that most people give me the "That stuff doesn't work in real life look" they find out I study TKD. I'm not sure why TKD bears the brunt of this misconception. If a casual observer can look at Olympic style sparring and say "It's useless" Why would they look at Jui-Jitsu, where there is no striking at all, and say "Yes that is real fighting?"

I know nobody suggested doing poomsae in a fight. I was just trying to make a point that there are lots of things we learn in martial arts that we wouldn't use in self defence. If you were in a fight you wouldn't throw a punch with your other hand in a chamber position.

HaHa cameltoe kick...that's classic
 

Thousand Kicks

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I would also add that promoting martial arts has been done for years. Whether it be movies, demos, magazines...whatever. I think all of us would agree that we not only want our art to survive, but thrive. These types of kicks highlight what is possible with training and focus. And, they can highlight what is unique and separates TKD from Karate or Muy Thai.

Unfortunately, there are negative consequences for this type of exposure. People will tend to think what they see is all there is.
 

RTKDCMB

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The thing is there is hardly any kind of promotion of TKD as a self defense or combat art. Which is what it first started out as.

I know of at least one major organization that still does it that way.

It will take the people of the traditional style to start promoting more practical side of the art. Otherwise this is road we are headed down.

It is difficult for a self defence art to keep up with, in terms of advertising, with a sport martial art/combat sport. They can make money from competitions, people can pay to watch them, they can get endorsements from companies, television coverage (how popular would MMA actually be if it was never shown on TV) and grants from sports institutes etc. Self defence arts don't usually get that kind of exposure.
 
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Gwai Lo Dan

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I saw this the other day and thought I would post this here. As a army I would think showing skills in a demo would be different from the counter part of a civilian martial art but seems like they perfer the same style or approach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOztk-EidhE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I would have thought the demo would have a different approach as well. In particular, some of the dancing was a little too effeminate/non-military for my tastes.
 

TKDTony2179

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I would have thought the demo would have a different approach as well. In particular, some of the dancing was a little too effeminate/non-military for my tastes.

I thought the same thing. I would say that most of these guys were probaly KuKi at one time and that is what they know.
 
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Gwai Lo Dan

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With mandatory military service, all the best TKD practioners end up going through, so yes, it would seem that all of these guys practiced TKD for many many years beforehand.
 

Gorilla

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I would have thought the demo would have a different approach as well. In particular, some of the dancing was a little too effeminate/non-military for my tastes.

They looked like some pretty incredible athletes/martial artists to me!

Probably can defend themselves in a seedy dive bar in Korea!
 

Cho, Yeonsoo

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There is taekwondo, then martial arts tricking and finally gymnastics.
I think Taekwondo ends, when more than 2 kicks are thrown in the air... my personal opinion though
 

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