Whats the point of reverse punch?

Kung Fu Wang

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Reverse punch used
That punch came from the "guard" and not came from the "waist" (as shown in the following picture).

1_step_3_punches.jpg


I assume the definition of "reverse punch" that you always punch from your "waist".

Nakayama.jpg
 
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Tez3

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The definition of the reverse punch (gyaku-zuki) is a punch that is executed by the arm opposite the lead leg. It can be from the guard or the waist, in fact anywhere it's practical, it's simply punching from the 'back' arm. People read to much into things sometimes.
 

marques

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Reverse is good to perturb opponent's vision (even without connect) and close distance.
Reverse can surprise a boxer. :) By other worlds, is another way to open the guard (at least) when the (boring and predictable) jabs fail...
 

JowGaWolf

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I assume the definition of "reverse punch" that you always punch from your "waist".
That's a narrow definition of a reverse punch. It's practiced like that in form because it's teaching you how to correctly generate and connect power from your waist. The motion is extreme because that's the easiest way to feel how to connect the energy from waist to the punch. Once you are able to use the waist to generate the power you'll be able to throw a reverse punch without winding up and telegraphing it.

My definition of a reverse punch is the same as Tez3 has stated.
The definition of the reverse punch (gyaku-zuki) is a punch that is executed by the arm opposite the lead leg
 

elder999

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The reverse punch is extremely useful if you're controlling-as in grabbing,or, in some cases, pushing-the person with the lead hand.

It's also used in boxing......I should add that one of my first knockouts as a teenager was a reverse punch to the armpit-thought I'd killed the guy, he went down so hard!
 
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TSDTexan

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Just some thoughts...when karate punches are performed from a guard they are called “kizami zuki” – a term often meaning “leading punch” but often translated as “jab”.

What people seem to regard as the main distinction between the boxing jab and the kizami zuki is that the former is usually performed with a retraction or snap-back, where the latter is not.

Therefore, there is no reason for a karateka not to practice and use snapping punches (ie. jabs) other than a rigid adherence to basic or kihon form.

Far more importantly, combination techniques are what render the whole "snap back" issue irrelevant: just as in boxing, karate uses a kizami zuki as a "set up" to other techniques, meaning that as soon as it is "thrown" the punch is being retratcted so as to give momentum to a technique with the other arm (eg. a reverse punch or "gyaku zuki").

In this respect karate and boxing "jabs" are really indistinguishable, even though karate basics are often isolated for (kime) practice.

Now while jabs have been known to produce the occasional knockout they are not generally regarded as “power” blows.

The reason is simple; they don’t have much space within which to accelerate, resulting in a lower velocity at the point of impact.

Using the simple equation (Force) P = M (acceleration) x v (Time) this means the amount of momentum generated will be less, hence the amount of momentum transferred (the impulse) is going to be smaller and so is the amount of force applied to the target.

Some consider it a given, that the principal karate punch is a straight thrust and that it corresponds with the boxer’s jab, it is little wonder then that karate punches are seen as “less powerful” than the rest of the boxer’s arsenal – the “follow-through punches”.

With the exception of jabs, boxers don’t attempt to stop their punches at a predetermined point. Instead they adopt a “follow-through” to their punches. Boxer's train their footwork to address the loss of balance due to overextendeding the punch into the target, as opposed to the Karateka's retraction at the stop point.

This is less evident with uppercuts (“ura zuki” and “tate zuki”) than, say, hooks or crosses.

However the karate variants all involve a distinct “stop” executed by the performer.

The boxing versions either swing past or, in the case of the uppercut, continue until they have exhausted their velocity at the end of their vertical flight path.

It can be argued that the weight, and large contact area on the gloves of a boxer rob him of force-efficiency, therefore a greater amount of power is required. As a result, there is a valid need to punch through, at all times. A boxer's punch by necessity has to be thrown with more power than an ungloved one.

In this case, form follows function.

The powerhouse of follow-through punches is, of course the right cross (or just “cross”).
 
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TSDTexan

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The reverse punch is extremely useful if you're controlling-as in grabbing,or, in some cases, pushing-the person with the lead hand.

It's also used in boxing......I should add that one of my first knockouts as a teenager was a reverse punch to the armpit-thought I'd killed the guy, he went down so hard!

Sounds like you probably hit the pressure point in his armpit.
 

Tez3

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Just some thoughts...when karate punches are performed from a guard they are called “kizami zuki” – a term often meaning “leading punch” but often translated as “jab”.

Kizamizuki though is executed off the leading hand not the back hand. Leading punch/jab off the leading hand. The reverse punch is kyakuzuki. Front punches, in Wado are more commonly called junzuki.
the first punch most karateka learn is sonobazuki..'same place punch', this is the standard standing still punching with alternate arms which is the staple of film directors when they want to show a martial arts class, that and the reverse punch from the waist in a long stance ( in Wado we do much shorter stances)

We have front snap punches in karate (Wado Ryu certainly) they are called tobikomizuki, executed off the front/leading arm. We also have an offline front snap punch ..nagashizuki. Uppercuts are agezuki.
 

Tez3

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I should add that both tobikomizuki and nagashizuki are done from guard.
 

TSDTexan

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Kizamizuki though is executed off the leading hand not the back hand. Leading punch/jab off the leading hand. The reverse punch is kyakuzuki. Front punches, in Wado are more commonly called junzuki.
the first punch most karateka learn is sonobazuki..'same place punch', this is the standard standing still punching with alternate arms which is the staple of film directors when they want to show a martial arts class, that and the reverse punch from the waist in a long stance ( in Wado we do much shorter stances)

We have front snap punches in karate (Wado Ryu certainly) they are called tobikomizuki, executed off the front/leading arm. We also have an offline front snap punch ..nagashizuki. Uppercuts are agezuki.

I think it was clear when I said leading punch that I meant lead and not back hand. More so, when I said jab.

This was brought up to discuss the lead hand's jab role prior to a combo....with reverse punch within the boxer/karateka comparison.

And yep... It always gets me chuckling, when I see a movie, and an instructor has a class of "black belt" teenagers doing the same alternating arms kihon in place, for two or three scenes.

Or one steps.

Its probably the cheapest or easiest way to film that dojo "class is now in session" scene, therefore its ubiquitous.
 

Tez3

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Just some thoughts...when karate punches are performed from a guard they are called “kizami zuki” – a term often meaning “leading punch” but often translated as “jab”.

I think it was clear when I said leading punch that I meant lead and not back hand. More so, when I said jab

No, it wasn't clear as you can see. You stated 'karate punches' and called them 'jab's/leading punches' whereas, as we know, punches can come off both hands.
 

TSDTexan

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Really? I'd have never guessed.......

I mean, I was so sure that what I'd hit was the axillary process of the brachial plexus, but what the hell do I know?

I was simply guessing at what happened. Where's the problem?
 
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TSDTexan

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No, it wasn't clear as you can see. You stated 'karate punches' and called them 'jab's/leading punches' whereas, as we know, punches can come off both hands.

Leading by its used context in my statement, refers to a lead hand punch and , that should have been clear enough.

I get the feeling, although I could be wrong, that you are being obtuse or plain difficult here. If so, Why?

In the future, for you Tez3, I will refer to the lead hand, specifically as Lead-hand or hand1... And the rear as rear-hand or hand2.

And for feet as lead-foot or foot1... Rear-foot, foot2

If that is going to help you apprehend, what I am writing.
 
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Tez3

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Leading by its used context in my statement, refers to a lead hand punch and , that should have been clear enough.

I get the feeling, although I could be wrong, that you are being obtuse here.

In the future, for you, I will refer to the lead hand, Specifically as Lead-hand or hand1... And the rear as rear-hand or hand2.

If that is going to help you apprehend, what I am writing.


My days of apprehending things and people ended when I retired.

You have no need to be snippy and certainly no need to make this personal.

If you are going to be precise then please use the correct Japanese terms as is usual in karate.
 

elder999

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My days of apprehending things and people ended when I retired.
.

@Tez3 -he appears to be addicted to the polysemous, or to secondary definitions....."apprehend" can mean "understand," though why he simply didn't use "understand," or "comprehend" is beyond me.....I'm imagining a college boy, but his profile says he's 41.....
 
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Tez3

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@Tez3 -he appears to be addicted to polysemous secondary definitions....."apprehend" can mean "understand," though why he simply didn't use "understand," or "comprehend" is beyond me.....I'm imagining a college boy, but his profile says he's 41.....

That old eh? Of course he could just be a distant, less amusing relative of Mrs. Malaprop.

There's no point on having a discussion on technicalities if the terms are going to be vague. I don't suppose many of you play or understand cricket (Aussies excepted) so if I told you it was a couple of teams of players who have a big stick and a ball you would be none the wiser but if I explained properly telling you in plain terms how the game is played (don't worry I won't :)) you would follow, it's the same with karate, not all posters on here actually practise karate coming from other styles, so we need to keep to terms we all understand.
The phrase 'when karate punches are done from guard they are called........' is on par with my comment that cricket is played by teams with a stick and ball, it gives you an idea but doesn't tell you exactly what it is. It may be obvious to the writer it's from the front arm just as it's obvious to me what you do with a cricket ball and ball but leaves non players//non karateka scratching their heads as it was vague and didn't lead to any better understanding of the subject.
 

marques

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Reverse is good to perturb opponent's vision (even without connect) and close distance.
Reverse can surprise a boxer. :) By other worlds, is another way to open the guard (at least) when the (boring and predictable) jabs fail...
Actually I'm talking about back fist. Just the portuguese name (the one I used) for it is very close to 'reserve'... And I didn't pay attention to other comments that make it clear.
 
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