What's going on in France?

[sgtmac_46]

I thought France was a paradise of tolerance, social equality and general happiness. What gives?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9891709/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9940332/

According to the eminent sage,Mohammed Rezzoug, this is all just a cry for attention. As he put it, the youth are saying, by setting fire to buildings and structures " 'I exist, I'm here.' "

Oh well, best to ignore the youths until they get their repressed rage out. To interfer would only serve to lower their self-esteem. Perhaps building another football field will help.

 

[Solidman82]

Wow! you'd think that in order to say,"I exist, I'm here!" you would just have to do something like get on top of a car and scream it. Those pesky french kids take it one step further though it seems.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Wow! you'd think that in order to say,"I exist, I'm here!" you would just have to do something like get on top of a car and scream it. Those pesky french kids take it one step further though it seems.

Couldn't they just spray paint their name on a wall or something?

 

[mantis]

I thought France was a paradise of tolerance, social equality and general happiness. What gives?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9891709/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9940332/

According to the eminent sage,Mohammed Rezzoug, this is all just a cry for attention. As he put it, the youth are saying, by setting fire to buildings and structures " 'I exist, I'm here.' "

Oh well, best to ignore the youths until they get their repressed rage out. To interfer would only serve to lower their self-esteem. Perhaps building another football field will help.

what are you talking about man?
europe is the mother of all racism worldwide man
compare the british reaction to the london attacks to the US reaction to 9/11... man, those euro's are crazy racist..
also check out what the brits are doing too man... it's just unbelievable that those things exist in the 21st century

 

[arnisador]

It's really out of control there. What a mess.

 

[mantis]

It's really out of control there. What a mess.

governments all around the world just do not want to listen to what people wanna say.
adding more pressure will only make people explode
props to those who are fighting for their freedom... respects and salute

 

[sgtmac_46]

governments all around the world just do not want to listen to what people wanna say.
adding more pressure will only make people explode
props to those who are fighting for their freedom... respects and salute

Exactly what "freedom" is gained by burning a nursery school the ground. This is the problem with hyperbolic statements, they tend to gloss over the reality...a bunch of young brigands who are revelling in destruction...they are nothing but Thugs.

If find it interesting what touched all this off...Two youths electrocuted THEMSELVES hiding in a power plant, and it's blamed on the police because it is believed they were hiding from the POLICE?! :erg:

 

[sgtmac_46]

It seems as though things are intensifying.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9891709/

It's apparent that Chirac's threats that the offending parties will be "arrested, judged and punished” isn't working as a deterant. This shouldn't be a surprise, as mob violence thrives on anonymity. These youths have no real belief that they will be punished after this is over, because they have no belief that they will be singled out and caught. The only way to end mob violence, is to make the participants think as individuals again. Perhaps they should declare martial law and start shooting anyone engaged in acts of arson and violence on sight.

What's furthermore, with regards to premises, in the US it is perfectly legal for law enforcement and private citizens to shoot someone who is engage in an imminent act of arson.

On a side note, it is not likely that this type of wide-spread violence would happen in the US. Though we have had large scale riots in places such as Detroit, LA, and others, they tend to stay localized. Everyone remembers what happened when rioters tried to expand the LA riots in to other areas...They were confronted by armed Asian store owners who used small arms fire to repell rioters who wanted to burn their stores. This kind of large scale rioting in the US would simply result in a lot of dead thugs...some by the police, most by private citizens.

Even in Louisiana, though it wasn't widely reported, neighbors in several sub-communities banded together to prevent lawless individuals from attacking their homes and their families. Many of these people were labelled as "racist" for not simply rolling over and allowing themselves to be robbed...oh well, better demonized than victimized.

 

[MJS]

If find it interesting what touched all this off...Two youths electrocuted THEMSELVES hiding in a power plant, and it's blamed on the police because it is believed they were hiding from the POLICE?! :erg:

But oh so typical though!!! Seems like that is the trend. Run from the cops, crash your car, get hurt, blame the cops. Resist arrest, lead the cops on a foot pursuit, get slammed to the ground and its brutality. I guess some people just can't take the blame for their own careless actions.

Mike

 

[arnisador]

It's spread to 300 towns?!?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051107...VngelIB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

It even says it's spreading to Belgium and Germany...there's the European Union for you.

This is amazing. Frightening, but amazing.

 

[Phoenix44]

I thought France was a paradise of tolerance, social equality and general happiness. What gives?

You're kidding, right? These people invented the Reign of Terror! They stormed THE BASTILLE for cryin' out loud.

Seriously, it's a horrorshow.

 

[mantis]

You're kidding, right? These people invented the Reign of Terror! They stormed THE BASTILLE for cryin' out loud.

Seriously, it's a horrorshow.

now it's germany and Belgium too..
all those are super racist countries...
but france is the first so-called democratic "civilized" country that becomes a police state..
the president Jack Chirac is becoming a saddam hussien there!

 

[sgtmac_46]

now it's germany and Belgium too..
all those are super racist countries...
but france is the first so-called democratic "civilized" country that becomes a police state..
the president Jack Chirac is becoming a saddam hussien there!

I'm no Chirac fan, but it seems to me that his main problem is that he isn't being decisive on this civil unrest. These thugs are throwing molotov cocktails at police! That seems to be an act that would justify lethal force to restore order. Sure, the media will demonize the police and government, but....they're going to do that anyway. It's better to be demonized AND decisive, than demonized and ineffective.

Restore order THEN deal with the fallout. 1 day of mob lawlessness, ended aggressively and assertively results in FAR LESS negative publicity than 10 days of unrestrained destructive rioting.

 

[mantis]

I'm no Chirac fan, but it seems to me that his main problem is that he isn't being decisive on this civil unrest. These thugs are throwing molotov cocktails at police! That seems to be an act that would justify lethal force to restore order. Sure, the media will demonize the police and government, but....they're going to do that anyway. It's better to be demonized AND decisive, than demonized and ineffective.

Restore order THEN deal with the fallout. 1 day of mob lawlessness, ended aggressively and assertively results in FAR LESS negative publicity than 10 days of unrestrained destructive rioting.

basically wipe them out first
put them in jail
treat them as terrorists
then say "what do you guys need?"
the difference between you and me is I understand these are people fighting for their freedom and social rights... but u see them as thugs.
my eyes show me the french police as thugs.. oh, or maybe because the people leading the riots are africans and arabs?
im not looking for trouble... but if u remember the news for the past 2 months u notice how many buildings were burnt while the immigrants are INSIDE of them and the police or mr. chirac didnt do JACK, right?
please dont get me wrong, i dont want to start trouble on this thread, or with you personally, but i really think those people should be given an ear first....
remember, those are only hungry people.. just feed em.. aye

 

[sgtmac_46]

basically wipe them out first
put them in jail
treat them as terrorists
then say "what do you guys need?"
the difference between you and me is I understand these are people fighting for their freedom and social rights... but u see them as thugs.
my eyes show me the french police as thugs.. oh, or maybe because the people leading the riots are africans and arabs?
im not looking for trouble... but if u remember the news for the past 2 months u notice how many buildings were burnt while the immigrants are INSIDE of them and the police or mr. chirac didnt do JACK, right?
please dont get me wrong, i dont want to start trouble on this thread, or with you personally, but i really think those people should be given an ear first....
remember, those are only hungry people.. just feed em.. aye

Hungry people? Expressing their hunger by burning down nursery SCHOOLS?! hahahaha! They are not fighting for anything, they are violent thugs who see a chance to burn everything in sight and destroy. The fact that you feel such behavior should be rewarded with asinine statements of "understanding" shows how truly out of touch you are with reality.

Pop quiz. You're a working class person, and a group of thugs comes along and sets your car and building on fire, how much understanding do you think they deserve? Are you suggesting their "angst" justifies destroying what belongs to you? Thuggery like this destroys the lives and property of innocent people, but apparently you think that's perfectly justified for some nebulous complaint. I say bring these thugs under control by whatever means are necessary.

 

[mantis]

Hungry people? Expressing their hunger by burning down nursery SCHOOLS?! hahahaha! They are not fighting for anything, they are violent thugs who see a chance to burn everything in sight and destroy. The fact that you feel such behavior should be rewarded with asinine statements of "understanding" shows how truly out of touch you are with reality.

Pop quiz. You're a working class person, and a group of thugs comes along and sets your car and building on fire, how much understanding do you think they deserve? Are you suggesting their "angst" justifies destroying what belongs to you? Thuggery like this destroys the lives and property of innocent people, but apparently you think that's perfectly justified for some nebulous complaint. I say bring these thugs under control by whatever means are necessary.

ur only looking at half of the story
the half that governments say...
the thugs are governments who couldnt guarantee those CITIZENS' rights of having a respectable jobs, or even their safety
those people have been burned live in their poor homes (they're ghettoes actually) and the government didnt do nothing
who's the thug now my friend?
who's the criminal?
dont those people have the right to defend themselves?
well i'll tell u what.. only ONE child, or one person who was burned alive is worth more than nursery schools... not that nursery schools will help those people when they're sick.
btw, most of these people are intellegent people who either graduated or go to college.
they just cant tolerate being opressed for the rest of their lives.
You sound like people from the 60s who didnt want to grant the americans from an african origin their social lives.
they were called thugs too!
they burned los angeles too, right?

i wanna support my opinion with this article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4415018.stm
good discussion, thanks

 

[arnisador]

Hungry people? Let them eat cake!

 

[mantis]

Hungry people? Let them eat cake!

lol...
okay u just know where to place a joke man
i give u that
good one

 

[sgtmac_46]

ur only looking at half of the story
the half that governments say...
the thugs are governments who couldnt guarantee those CITIZENS' rights of having a respectable jobs, or even their safety
those people have been burned live in their poor homes (they're ghettoes actually) and the government didnt do nothing
who's the thug now my friend?
who's the criminal?
dont those people have the right to defend themselves?
well i'll tell u what.. only ONE child, or one person who was burned alive is worth more than nursery schools... not that nursery schools will help those people when they're sick.
btw, most of these people are intellegent people who either graduated or go to college.
they just cant tolerate being opressed for the rest of their lives.
You sound like people from the 60s who didnt want to grant the americans from an african origin their social lives.
they were called thugs too!
they burned los angeles too, right?

i wanna support my opinion with this article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4415018.stm
good discussion, thanks

Explain to me, again, what mindless thugery and violence has to do with making a political statement. What does burning other poor people's homes and property prove other than they are nothing but criminals. The mentality displayed by these folks isn't that of thoughtful people making a statement, it is soccer hooligan mentality. They aren't burning to make anything better, they are doing it because they are enjoying the anonymous destruction. Your attempts to spin this as some sort of understandable act is nothing but a complete distortion of reality.

Now you're calling me a racist? lol. Here it comes....

As for your article, it doesn't do anything but illustrate the true failure of the lauded socialist systems throughout Europe. All those listed social programs...have FAILED?! Perhaps if they had been concentrating on economic development and jobs, instead of entitlement programs, the youth would be working gainfully instead of developing an entitlement mentality that says that if they don't get what they demand, they'll BURN THE CITIES!!!! Instead, all that youthful energy would be directed to actually working for a living. It's clear, if you can burn a building to the ground, surely you can work.

 

[sgtmac_46]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9891709/

Perfect example of what i'm talking about

"The opposition Socialists said Villepin had not done enough to give hope to those people in areas hit by the unrest"

The opposition Socialists would attack the government no matter what, whether they were too aggressive or too indecisive. As I said before, it's better to be labelled indecisive.

An aggressive response that ended the attacks on the first day would have been criticized by the Socialists for a couple of days, but the media would get bored and go to other news, because there wasn't dramatic pictures of rioters and vehicles burning.

Again, decisive GOOD, confused and ineffective BAD.

I also find it ironic that socialists believe the answer to failed social programs are promises of MORE faulty social programs. It's ironic that government give aways never seem to improve people's lives in the long wrong. I'm curious if unemployment isn't so high as a result of socialist programs designed to restrict employers ability to compete. Ironic.

At any rate, the most successful skill socialists have is their awe-inspiring ability to spin the failures of THEIR programs, as being the fault of their opposition.