What Martial Arts would help me in this situation?

[lklawson]

Honestly my friend who cares if people think you're a coward you'll never see those people again in a few years.

Maybe because he's in the same place as those people for 7+ hours a day, 5 days a week, for up to 4 years, in which they can, and usually will, make his life miserable and him a social outcast?

Look, I agree that agreeing to the fight was stupid. But there are powerful social pressures which are encouraging him to do so. The Male Dominance Ritual exists for a reason.

Here's the fun thing. If he starts taking MMA (or [fill in the blank]) classes seriously, he may never have to fight again in school. The info will slowly filter around and, if he's not a jerk, then he may not get challenged ever again. He'll have a "rep" as someone not to be messed with and if he's not a jerk he won't be giving anyone any particular reason to try that out.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[drop bear]

Maybe because he's in the same place as those people for 7+ hours a day, 5 days a week, for up to 4 years, in which they can, and usually will, make his life miserable and him a social outcast?

Look, I agree that agreeing to the fight was stupid. But there are powerful social pressures which are encouraging him to do so. The Male Dominance Ritual exists for a reason.

Here's the fun thing. If he starts taking MMA (or [fill in the blank]) classes seriously, he may never have to fight again in school. The info will slowly filter around and, if he's not a jerk, then he may not get challenged ever again. He'll have a "rep" as someone not to be messed with and if he's not a jerk he won't be giving anyone any particular reason to try that out.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

And he creates a new social group that may help him escape the pressure of the old one.

Training has helped my work sucks issues before.

 

[GiYu - Todd]

Here's the fun thing. If he starts taking MMA (or [fill in the blank]) classes seriously, he may never have to fight again in school. The info will slowly filter around and, if he's not a jerk, then he may not get challenged ever again. He'll have a "rep" as someone not to be messed with and if he's not a jerk he won't be giving anyone any particular reason to try that out.

Very good point. I've also noticed that most people who have trained for much time, tend to carry themselves with more confidence. They don't tend to fear other people as much, and it shows, even if word hasn't gotten around.
Often, the bullies are looking for easy marks. The last thing they want is a fair fight, lest they lose and have their "alpha" status destroyed. They tend toward shy, non-confrontational type targets for a reason. (although there are exceptions).
In school, I was a bespectacled band geek. Over time and with some training, I developed more confidence, which then seemed to get me more respectful treatment.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Ignoring bullies does not work. Bullies don't give up until they are a) clobbered or b) defeat the person they picked on.

Whether one trains or not, bullies have to be stood up to or they just continue to be a problem. Which is why I took my father's advice and hit my bully in the head with a board. Fair? No, not hardly. And today that would be very bad advice, A kid would likely end up in serious trouble if they tried that. But you know what? It worked. That's all I'm saying.

When I moved to a new town (and we moved a lot), I always had to fight. Always. There is a pecking order, and unless all the males know where you belong in it, you're going to keep getting pressured to fight. Eventually, the 'guys' located someone on the wrestling team to fight me and formed a ring around us and pushed us at each other until one of us took a swing at the other. We were going to fight, that was all there was to it. As it happened, I won, but it did not matter if I won or lost; it would establish my spot, high or low, in the pecking order. Issue resolved.

As to martial arts training, I respectfully disagree that it will stop anyone from fighting the person who is training. It may dissuade some; but many more will feel the need to test themselves against the 'karate guy' or whatever. And they will. And it may not just be once or twice. Word will get around when the 'karate guy' whips their butts, and THEN the issue will stop. But until then, not so much.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Ignoring bullies does not work. Bullies don't give up until they are a) clobbered or b) defeat the person they picked on.

More a) than b).
Bullies do what they do because they are targeting people of a certain nature. They go after anyone who seems like an easy target. Definitely keep the "I take karate" statement classified. I remember in the sixth grade I became the guy to beat because they knew I took karate. It was a pain in the neck to deal with because it was less about bullying and more about challenging me in order to advance their "street credit"

 

[lklawson]

Ignoring bullies does not work. Bullies don't give up until they are a) clobbered or b) defeat the person they picked on.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

As to martial arts training, I respectfully disagree that it will stop anyone from fighting the person who is training. It may dissuade some; but many more will feel the need to test themselves against the 'karate guy' or whatever. And they will. And it may not just be once or twice. Word will get around when the 'karate guy' whips their butts, and THEN the issue will stop. But until then, not so much.

Not in my experience. There may be some who have to "test out" the karate guy (or the "big" guy, or whatever) but my experience is that they're the exception rather than the rule.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[JowGaWolf]

There may be some who have to "test out" the karate guy (or the "big" guy, or whatever) but my experience is that they're the exception rather than the rule.

Peace favor your sword,

It's probably less now than what it was in the past. BJJ and MMA now "rule the block" and most people who want to test someone probably think that karate is insignificant. Just for me personally, so many people get black belts so easily these days that me fighting a person that does karate wouldn't have the same thrill as it did when I took it. I'm not talking down on karate, I'm just saying that finding a black belt with good fighting skills is rare because there are so many that have a black belt but lack the fighting skills. Kung Fu is even worse. If I spar against someone that does kung fu then the first thing I think about is basic kickboxing. It doesn't mean that the system is no good. It's just rare to find someone that actually knows how to use the fighting system to fight.

BJJ and MMA are different because they have the spotlight. There seems to be no shortages of MMA vs... and BJJ vs.... street fights where people are gathered around 2 fighters go at it in the street to see who is the toughest.

 

[TheMartian]

You want to train? Fine go for It good on you but you say the guy asked to fight you and eventyallh you agreed. Well if you'd never agreed there'd be no fight so you wouldn't have needed to. Maybe you were afraid of looking like a coward. Honestly my friend who cares if people think you're a coward you'll never see those people again in a few years. Me personally I've been doing martial arts since primary school (elementary) and all through high school. I got challenges from idiots to fight and I turned them all down and walked away. I've never had a street fight in my life which I'm very happy about. I could've easily taken down those guys who challenged me but I had no reason to and I'm sure most people thought I was a wimp who can't fight his way out a wet paper bag but honestly I didn't give a damm. I have nothing to prove to anyone. If they started trying to hit me then if defend myself but anything else isn't worth it

I know man, he isn't worth my time, in fact, he's a coward, he would rather fight people with no martial art skill, there's this kid whos knows MMA, and he hates him, he says he doesn't want to fight because he doesn't want to get into trouble, but now I know it's because he's afraid, and i won't use anything on anyone unless my close friends are getting hurt, or actually beat up, which is unlikely, but you never know, to be honest, I wouldn't have thought you to be a wimp, people are good at reading other people would know that you weren't wussying out.

I wouldn't say I was afraid of being a coward, he said that it was going to be friendly, and I'm not used to what he was doing(choking). He broke his "Code of honor" or something, using martial arts on someone who doesn't know it is being a coward.

Thanks for the positive response.

 

[Kenpoguy123]

I know man, he isn't worth my time, in fact, he's a coward, he would rather fight people with no martial art skill, there's this kid whos knows MMA, and he hates him, he says he doesn't want to fight because he doesn't want to get into trouble, but now I know it's because he's afraid, and i won't use anything on anyone unless my close friends are getting hurt, or actually beat up, which is unlikely, but you never know, to be honest, I wouldn't have thought you to be a wimp, people are good at reading other people would know that you weren't wussying out.

I wouldn't say I was afraid of being a coward, he said that it was going to be friendly, and I'm not used to what he was doing(choking). He broke his "Code of honor" or something, using martial arts on someone who doesn't know it is being a coward.

Thanks for the positive response.

I'm glad you know he's not worth it. But one thing there. There's no such thing as a code of honor when it comes to a fight. In a fight anything goes. Most martial artists don't have an actual code or anything they just have common sense and decency not to fight untrained people unless the have to. But sadly there's always going to be some jerks in any type of situation but honestly people like that rarely last in martial arts because they don't have the discipline or the respect to stick it out and learn properly and any decent instructor can work out who's a good student who won't misuse it or someone who's just using it to beat people up

 

[lklawson]

There's no such thing as a code of honor when it comes to a fight. In a fight anything goes.

I see this claim a lot, usually by self defense advocates. But it's not actually true. There almost always really are "rules" in a "fight" in modern America. There are "rules" of the law (yes, really). There are "rules" governed by social convention. There are "rules" governed by class and setting. If it were not so, literally, every "fight" would end with someone maimed or dead. This obviously doesn't happen. The problem is you may not know what the rules are because you are from a different location or social class and the "rules" and conventions of a fight which you are used to may not apply where the fight is taking place. The person you are "fighting" may have a different set.

The other issue is that, just because there are "rules" and conventions for conducting a "fight" doesn't necessarily mean that the person you are fighting is going to follow them. MOST of the time they will. But not always. The prisons are full of violent criminals with poor impulse control who nearly universally admit that they knew and intended to follow the "rules" and conventions before the violent act which landed them in prison happened and admit that they still know and intend to follow them. But they have a compromised impulse control system and so they get swept away and don't even think they're breaking the rules until afterwards.

That is the person that self defense advocates who issue dire warnings of "there are no rules" are scared to death of. Fortunately, though they are disproportionately represented in prison, they are, statistically, quite rare in most public settings.

So, yeah, there actually ARE "rules" when it comes to a "fight" and NO, it is NOT "anything goes." Unless 1) you didn't cause the encounter ("cause," not "start" -- there's a difference), and 2) you can reasonably articulate that the person you are in a "fight" with you reasonably believed was a legitimate threat of death or serious bodily harm to yourself or an innocent 3rd party, then you CAN'T use Deadly Force. Even if you're afraid he may not be following the "rules," you still have to.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[drop bear]

I see this claim a lot, usually by self defense advocates. But it's not actually true. There almost always really are "rules" in a "fight" in modern America. There are "rules" of the law (yes, really). There are "rules" governed by social convention. There are "rules" governed by class and setting. If it were not so, literally, every "fight" would end with someone maimed or dead. This obviously doesn't happen. The problem is you may not know what the rules are because you are from a different location or social class and the "rules" and conventions of a fight which you are used to may not apply where the fight is taking place. The person you are "fighting" may have a different set.

The other issue is that, just because there are "rules" and conventions for conducting a "fight" doesn't necessarily mean that the person you are fighting is going to follow them. MOST of the time they will. But not always. The prisons are full of violent criminals with poor impulse control who nearly universally admit that they knew and intended to follow the "rules" and conventions before the violent act which landed them in prison happened and admit that they still know and intend to follow them. But they have a compromised impulse control system and so they get swept away and don't even think they're breaking the rules until afterwards.

That is the person that self defense advocates who issue dire warnings of "there are no rules" are scared to death of. Fortunately, though their disproportionately represented in prison, they are, statistically, quite rare in most public settings.

So, yeah, there actually ARE "rules" when it comes to a "fight" and NO, it is NOT "anything goes." Unless 1) you didn't cause the encounter ("cause," not "start" -- there's a difference), and 2) you can reasonably articulate that the person you are in a "fight" with you reasonably believed was a legitimate threat of death or serious bodily harm to yourself or an innocent 3rd party, then you CAN'T use Deadly Force. Even if you're afraid he may not be following the "rules," you still have to.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

There should be enough hurt available in your rule set to make your martial art viable in self defence. That way if worst case you can't think of a clever dirty tactic. You can still have a fair chance of physically overcoming someone.

 

[lklawson]

There should be enough hurt available in your rule set to make your martial art viable in self defence. That way if worst case you can't think of a clever dirty tactic. You can still have a fair chance of physically overcoming someone.

Sure. If you're practicing Martial Arts for self defense, then your system needs to cover the range from moderated force up through deadly force. But your training methodology and the tactics you practice needs to be geared so that you can orient on the force continuum and not drop straight to Deadly Force because you mistakenly and foolishly believe that "there are no rules in a street fight." There frack'n well ARE.

I remember reading of a case several years ago where a FMA practitioner got into a "fight" with Security at a concert. He severed the guy's femoral artery and the dude bled out. For his defense, he claimed that all fights are potentially deadly and the Event Security attacked him (when he was arguing with them about ejecting his drunk friend). Obviously, he went to prison.

If you're training for Self Defense, and your training methodology doesn't include a way to orient to the proper point on the force continuum, then, frankly, you're leaving yourself wide open to bad stuff happening to you as a result of using or trying to use your martial training.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[drop bear]

Sure. If you're practicing Martial Arts for self defense, then your system needs to cover the range from moderated force up through deadly force. But your training methodology and the tactics you practice needs to be geared so that you can orient on the force continuum and not drop straight to Deadly Force because you mistakenly and foolishly believe that "there are no rules in a street fight." There frack'n well ARE.

I remember reading of a case several years ago where a FMA practitioner got into a "fight" with Security at a concert. He severed the guy's femoral artery and the dude bled out. For his defense, he claimed that all fights are potentially deadly and the Event Security attacked him (when he was arguing with them about ejecting his drunk friend). Obviously, he went to prison.

If you're training for Self Defense, and your training methodology doesn't include a way to orient to the proper point on the force continuum, then, frankly, you're leaving yourself wide open to bad stuff happening to you as a result of using or trying to use your martial training.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Yeah I agree. There is also a video floating around where a guy got his face elbowed off for trying to bite his way out of mount. On the grounds that any fight you can walk away from is a win. Sometimes you just need to take your beating with good grace.