What Martial Arts should i study to be a great well rounded martial artist?

[jobo]

So what you need is higher level competition. It's true that perhaps taking up point fighting karate is not ideal for upping your game. You need something that will grind you down and push you. Few things will do that more than judo, wrestling or MMA. Ideally, the training will be worse than any confrontation you might have. Those judoka I've talked to who used it is self defence have said how easy it was to apply... way easier than in the dojo.

From my perspective, I have a fair amount of experience with both sporting and non sporting arts, being HEMA, koryu kenjutsu, koryu battojutsu, modern combatives and judo. For the purposes of being able to "take care of myself", judo has upped my game considerably, despite being a sporting art. Learning how to manipulate the human body as a wrestler or judoka can han hardly be overvalued. With judo, you'll have a takedown skillset that is hard to beat, and a functional ground game. The effectiveness of the combination of judo and boxing is considered to be axiomatic these days, so combining it with your striking art should produce excellent results. The pressure of the training will give you a mental toughness you didn't think you had. As a general rule, judoka are tough as nails, and do very well in "real world" encounters. If your body can handle it, it will pay huge dividends.

Another point I leaned from judo: all the takedowns I've learned don't work quite the way I thought they would. It's a great reality check. All those takedowns you know will get taken to a whole new level.

the only thing I have against the do MMA for self defence training, is its counter intuative,I do ma to reduce the likelyhood of my being beaten up, being beaten up twice a week in the octagon doesn't really fit that goal

 

[JR 137]

I like that mindset. It's a good way to drive yourself.

I just don't have the interest in hitting someone hard in order to win the bout. I don't really know how to explain it. In sparring, I only hit as hard as is necessary and am willing to "lose" to keep things safe for all involved, and I'm more concerned with how much control I feel in the situation. I usually play a more defensive game. Something about competition just doesn't line up right for me, when it comes to striking. I've never had enough interest in it, for it to be a useful driver. Perhaps if I'd gotten into it early in my training - maybe my attitude is learned, rather than personality-based.

There's nothing wrong with your mindset. Everyone's wired differently. Yours is better for you, and mine is better for me (at least I hope what I'm doing is best for me ).

I like hitting hard and being hit hard, within reason of course. How hard is too hard? If it hinders me or the person I hit the next day, it was too hard. Or if it has one of us doubled over in pain.

And I don't like the wild, uncontrolled hitting. From me nor my opponent.

Even though I hate the rule set of point fighting, what I enjoy is trying to hit someone that's trying to not let me hit them and hit me back.

Last year's tournament was the best one I've been to. And it was the only one I've been to since my last go-round with karate about 15 years ago. It was my organization's 40th Anniversary week-long gathering, which ended with a tournament. It was only open to Seido Juku karateka. We're not a point fighting, sport based organization at heart. There were only a very few guys who were fighting towards the point fighting rules. By that I mean people weren't doing the stupid quick backfist-reverse punch combo and putting their arm up with an obnoxious kiai to get the ref's attention. Actually, being an idiot like that would've gotten warnings and loss of points/DQ. We all cheered each other on when we saw something good, picked each other up when someone got down, and talked about what worked and didn't. And talked about training and life in general. And it was a huge event - over 1,000 people from all over the world. My division had about 30 people from about 8 different countries.

The one in October will be far smaller, as it's not a week long event. Most people will be from the northeast, but there's usually a few Seido people from different places. Hopefully the atmosphere will be the same. If it is, I'll do it every year. If not, I'll retire from competition I'll still train with the people who are competing and will train like I'm competing though.

 

[Langenschwert]

the only thing I have against the do MMA for self defence training, is its counter intuative,I do ma to reduce the likelyhood of my being beaten up, being beaten up twice a week in the octagon doesn't really fit that goal

Every MMA gym is different. Some are very hobbyist friendly, and they don't beat the stuffing out of people who don't have professional aspirations. Try a bunch of places and see what you like! Most places are free for the first class.

The good thing about MMA is you'll learn how to integrate your burgeoning grappling skills with striking.

Another good option is Catch Wrestling if you can find it. You may find it useful because the rule set is less restrictive than judo.

A final thought: you might enjoy sambo too. There are multiple varieties, some being more sporting and others not. Definitely check it out if you can.

Good luck in your search! Keep looking until you find something that clicks.

 

[PhotonGuy]

i just received Chodan (1st degree) in Moo duk Kwan T'ang Soo Do, i kinda wanna start exploring other styles too to make myself more well rounded, what should i do? the tang soo do covered striking and all that, i was thinking bjj or japanese jiujutsu for the grappling, and maybe either krav mags for hapkido, any suggestions? i prefer more of the traditional asian martial arts, i like the whole traditional dojo feel

Since you're already proficient in a striking art I would say to take up a good grappling art. You mentioned BJJ, that's what I would recommend. And of course you should keep training in your first style. You just made first degree so now is the time to really turn up the heat and start training even harder.

 

[drop bear]

I like that mindset. It's a good way to drive yourself.

I just don't have the interest in hitting someone hard in order to win the bout. I don't really know how to explain it. In sparring, I only hit as hard as is necessary and am willing to "lose" to keep things safe for all involved, and I'm more concerned with how much control I feel in the situation. I usually play a more defensive game. Something about competition just doesn't line up right for me, when it comes to striking. I've never had enough interest in it, for it to be a useful driver. Perhaps if I'd gotten into it early in my training - maybe my attitude is learned, rather than personality-based.

The difference between a martial artist and a fighter. One reason you can get a more technical guy and just mangle him.

I was like that. But i went to the mind set of screw it. I am not a punching bag.

 

[drop bear]

the only thing I have against the do MMA for self defence training, is its counter intuative,I do ma to reduce the likelyhood of my being beaten up, being beaten up twice a week in the octagon doesn't really fit that goal

You are confusing consensual with non consensual.

 

[JR 137]

The difference between a martial artist and a fighter. One reason you can get a more technical guy and just mangle him.

I was like that. But i went to the mind set of screw it. I am not a punching bag.

Just because someone doesn't like hitting and getting hit doesn't mean said person doesn't like choking, throwing or joint locking someone.

I could never play lacrosse because I'd probably lose it if someone hit me with their stick. I know, it's part of the game and it's consensual, but I wouldn't deal with it very well. I'd probably end up cross checking someone across the throat with my stick.

Same with baseball - if a pitcher intentionally hit me with a pitch, which is part of the game, I'd probably charge the mound with my bat. Hey, hit me with a weapon and I'll return the favor. Don't challenge me if all you're holding is a knife and I'm holding an M16.

Yet somehow consentually punching and kicking me is ok. Everyone's wired differently.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The difference between a martial artist and a fighter. One reason you can get a more technical guy and just mangle him.

I was like that. But i went to the mind set of screw it. I am not a punching bag.

Yet, I'm the guy who lets folks try stuff out ("What would happen if..."), and I usually end up getting a tap-out. Even then, though, I only use just what I need to get to that. My results have always been pretty good, playing with wrestlers, strikers, etc. Maybe I just need to play with folks who are more aggressive about it, who can put better pressure on me.

 

[drop bear]

Yet, I'm the guy who lets folks try stuff out ("What would happen if..."), and I usually end up getting a tap-out. Even then, though, I only use just what I need to get to that. My results have always been pretty good, playing with wrestlers, strikers, etc. Maybe I just need to play with folks who are more aggressive about it, who can put better pressure on me.

My results generally suck. I am good to a guy who has had mabye two or three fights. The guys who have had 10 plus fights or are athletic monsters decimate me. And it is just a case of grinding for the whole round. And trying not to collapse.

We have a few one speed guys who I have to take pretty seriously. Or they will knock my head off.

I would rather an easy round than a war. Guys who are fighting need those wars though. So I will ramp it up during fight camps.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My results generally suck. I am good to a guy who has had mabye two or three fights. The guys who have had 10 plus fights or are athletic monsters decimate me. And it is just a case of grinding for the whole round. And trying not to collapse.

We have a few one speed guys who I have to take pretty seriously. Or they will knock my head off.

I would rather an easy round than a war. Guys who are fighting need those wars though. So I will ramp it up during fight camps.

The athletic monsters would destroy me, because I depend a lot on being able to frustrate people and let them wear themselves out. I probably can't frustrate those guys as easily, and wouldn't be able to wear them out if I did. So, yeah, the more fights (of the type you're referring to) someone has survived, the less likely I'd have such good results.

 

[jobo]

You are confusing consensual with non consensual.

no not really a kick in the face is much the same in both

 

[Mark Lynn]

i just received Chodan (1st degree) in Moo duk Kwan T'ang Soo Do, i kinda wanna start exploring other styles too to make myself more well rounded, what should i do? the tang soo do covered striking and all that, i was thinking bjj or japanese jiujutsu for the grappling, and maybe either krav mags for hapkido, any suggestions? i prefer more of the traditional asian martial arts, i like the whole traditional dojo feel

Pianodude

I've watched this thread over the past several days but this has been my first real chance to reply. As to what to study I think that depends upon a few things.

1) Depends upon what is around you that you can study.
2) Ask yourself what is your goal in trying to "make yourself more well rounded"
3) What draws you (interest wise) to "traditional Asian martial arts" over non traditional Asian martial arts?

#1 really is the main determining factor. #2 Though I believe is a real close 2nd and is often over looked. #3 is really less important, but it can be important in what you are looking for. For instance do you like the community feel of a "tradtional dojo", the hierarchy, the etiquette, the rank.

Because you studied a Korean based martial art, I'd suggest out of the arts you listed the Hapkido, because there you would learn a Korean based system of locking, throwing, take downs etc. etc.that would probably blend well with the MDK/TSD. Hapkido is often taught as a add on or separate art in Korean TKD schools, so I believe that would help you be more well rounded.

If you are looking for more of a self defense (SD) or a more combative type system I would try out the Krav Maga, although it is not an "traditional Asian martial art" nor are the feel of their schools like a "traditional dojo". However depending upon the school you will have hard workouts with resistive partners, pad work, defense against weapons, etc etc.

If you are looking more for the combative sport aspect then try out the MMA which everyone seems to suggest.

Another option (again depending upon the school) could be the Filipino Martial Arts. There you would learn weaponry (impact and edged weapons), empty hands skills (locking, throwing, take downs), which relate to self defense skills. But again depending upon the school there might be more of the "traditional Asian" dojo feel, or not. I mean you might be working with a small group of students in a park or a garage (who knows).

 

[Paul_D]

i just received Chodan (1st degree) in Moo duk Kwan T'ang Soo Do, i kinda wanna start exploring other styles too to make myself more well rounded

What are you planning to study to cover weapons.

 

[Buka]

There's nothing wrong with your mindset. Everyone's wired differently. Yours is better for you, and mine is better for me (at least I hope what I'm doing is best for me ).

I like hitting hard and being hit hard, within reason of course. How hard is too hard? If it hinders me or the person I hit the next day, it was too hard. Or if it has one of us doubled over in pain.

And I don't like the wild, uncontrolled hitting. From me nor my opponent.

Even though I hate the rule set of point fighting, what I enjoy is trying to hit someone that's trying to not let me hit them and hit me back.

Last year's tournament was the best one I've been to. And it was the only one I've been to since my last go-round with karate about 15 years ago. It was my organization's 40th Anniversary week-long gathering, which ended with a tournament. It was only open to Seido Juku karateka. We're not a point fighting, sport based organization at heart. There were only a very few guys who were fighting towards the point fighting rules. By that I mean people weren't doing the stupid quick backfist-reverse punch combo and putting their arm up with an obnoxious kiai to get the ref's attention. Actually, being an idiot like that would've gotten warnings and loss of points/DQ. We all cheered each other on when we saw something good, picked each other up when someone got down, and talked about what worked and didn't. And talked about training and life in general. And it was a huge event - over 1,000 people from all over the world. My division had about 30 people from about 8 different countries.

The one in October will be far smaller, as it's not a week long event. Most people will be from the northeast, but there's usually a few Seido people from different places. Hopefully the atmosphere will be the same. If it is, I'll do it every year. If not, I'll retire from competition I'll still train with the people who are competing and will train like I'm competing though.

JR, is that tournament on the east coast in October? If so, when and where?

 

[Steve]

I like that mindset. It's a good way to drive yourself.

I just don't have the interest in hitting someone hard in order to win the bout. I don't really know how to explain it. In sparring, I only hit as hard as is necessary and am willing to "lose" to keep things safe for all involved, and I'm more concerned with how much control I feel in the situation. I usually play a more defensive game. Something about competition just doesn't line up right for me, when it comes to striking. I've never had enough interest in it, for it to be a useful driver. Perhaps if I'd gotten into it early in my training - maybe my attitude is learned, rather than personality-based.

I've heard that you will fight how you train.

 

[JR 137]

JR, is that tournament on the east coast in October? If so, when and where?

The Seido calendar says October 14. I'm not sure exactly where, but it's been held in NYC colleges in the past - Hunter College and John Jay mostly. The last few recent events have all been in Purchase, NY (Westchester county), so I'd put my money on SUNY Purchase.

It's the Seido 41st Anniversary Benefit Tournament. Open to Seido Juku karateka only. Most people are from NYC and the tri-state area, and Maryland. There's always a few from other Seido dojos in the States and internationally.

I'm not sure how this one will go. The only one I went to was last year's tournament. It was huge because it was the end of the week long event, which as clinics, workshops, demos, etc. It should be a great time though. I'll let you know exactly where once I know.

 

[JR 137]

I've heard that you will fight how you train.

Pro fighters don't go all out in sparring, yet they still turn it on in the ring/octagon. Granted, they're pros and we're not, but still.

 

[Steve]

Pro fighters don't go all out in sparring, yet they still turn it on in the ring/octagon. Granted, they're pros and we're not, but still.

true. But then again they turn it on in the ring/octagon. Point being they turn it on. Somewhere. And you don't jave to be a pro to turn it on... Somewhere.

 

[drop bear]

I've heard that you will fight how you train.

You fight half as good as how you train.

 

[drop bear]

Pro fighters don't go all out in sparring, yet they still turn it on in the ring/octagon. Granted, they're pros and we're not, but still.

Kind of comes back to my dune quote.

You need to be able to turn it up at will. Not hope that the situation does that for you. Proffesional is a good way to describe it.