What is "Zen" ??
- Thread starter Lisa
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Blotan Hunka
Master Black Belt
"Clear mind is like the full moon in the sky, sometimes clouds come and cover it, but the moon shines brightly. Clouds come, behind is clear mind. Clouds go away, and there is only clear mind. Thinking comes and goes, comes and goes-do not be attached, to the coming or the going."
-78th Patriarch Zen Master Seung Sahn
-78th Patriarch Zen Master Seung Sahn
Blotan Hunka
Master Black Belt
Trying to explain Zen, is akin to asking someone to describe the taste of water. ...
I'd not read that before, Blotan, thank you for posting it.
It's actually not a bad distillation of the concept of Zen (literally "forwards" or "ahead") - which is just as well given the apparent 'seniority' of its source
.
It's actually not a bad distillation of the concept of Zen (literally "forwards" or "ahead") - which is just as well given the apparent 'seniority' of its source
.
Wisdom that is unexplainable but can be found by searching the mind sometimes while trying to answere questions that have no set answere
Blotan Hunka
Master Black Belt
I find the more I read about Zen, the fewer "AH-HA!" moments I have. We tend to want explinations more than experience eh?
OP
OP
Refreshing?
Thanks Bob.
Confusing...hmmm. I guess I like to deal in absolutes too much to be able to "get" zen.
Yes and no. I want explanations so I can formulate how to get the experience? Make sense? Again, maybe my mind is just wanting absolutes.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Zen Buddhism comes directly form Chan Buddhism of China which is a combination of Mahāyāna Buddhism, Taoism and Confucian beliefs. This is by the way a major over simplification.
You can find a pretty good explanation here
Simple Zen: A Guide to Living Moment by Moment
By C. Alexander, Ph.D. Simpkins
You can find a pretty good explanation here
Simple Zen: A Guide to Living Moment by Moment
By C. Alexander, Ph.D. Simpkins
Monadnock
2nd Black Belt
Yes, check out the Wiki link Bob posted. I found the definitions there easy to understand.
Note that the core of Zen practice is zazen, sitting meditation. Koans, primarily connected to the Rinza school, are used to help the student to a better understanding of the nature of the mind and themselves. In many cases, there is no "correct" answer to a koan.
Look up phrases like the Zen Beginner's Mind for some more insight on what Zen is trying to accomplish.
Note that the core of Zen practice is zazen, sitting meditation. Koans, primarily connected to the Rinza school, are used to help the student to a better understanding of the nature of the mind and themselves. In many cases, there is no "correct" answer to a koan.
Look up phrases like the Zen Beginner's Mind for some more insight on what Zen is trying to accomplish.
Blotan Hunka
Master Black Belt
Yes and no. I want explanations so I can formulate how to get the experience? Make sense? Again, maybe my mind is just wanting absolutes.
Nothing wrong with that, just remember that reading about Zen is not Zen. Only living it is.
Zen is one of those things that you can write entire books on, yet never really know.
But, if you really want to hurt your brain (I say this because it hurt mine) read some books by Alan Watts.
Qingfu - The living meaning of Zen is beyond all notions. To realize it in a phrase is completely contrary to the subtle essence; we cannot avoid using words as expedients, though, but this has limitations. Needless to say, of course, random talk is useless. Nonetheless, the matter is not one-sided, so we temporarily set forth a path in the way of teaching, to deal with people.
But, if you really want to hurt your brain (I say this because it hurt mine) read some books by Alan Watts.
Qingfu - The living meaning of Zen is beyond all notions. To realize it in a phrase is completely contrary to the subtle essence; we cannot avoid using words as expedients, though, but this has limitations. Needless to say, of course, random talk is useless. Nonetheless, the matter is not one-sided, so we temporarily set forth a path in the way of teaching, to deal with people.
OP
OP
So I read this quote and what is the first thing that pops into my mind:
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"
Now, please don't be thinking that I believe anyone who practices Zazen or zen is an idiot. That is not what I mean.
Basically what I am getting from this conversation is that I can read all the words I want to and they really mean nothing. I must find it in myself to be able to understand what it means for me. Meaning, that it is a personal journey that no one can find for me. I can only find it for myself, if I truly want to. The first thing I must have is an open mind and let go of the absolutes.
Close? or no cigar?
Blotan Hunka
Master Black Belt
Sit.
Breathe.
Let thoughts come and go without attaching to them or worrying about stopping them.
Koans, books, words...theyre all a finger pointing the way. They have theyre use, but are not to be confused with the way. The only method to experience it is to walk it.
What does Blue sound like?
What does joy taste like?
What does air feel like?
What does joy taste like?
What does air feel like?
Blotan Hunka
Master Black Belt
Speaking of fingers, and related to Lisas question:
Whenever anyone asked him about Zen, the great master Gutei would quietly raise one finger into the air.
A boy in the village began to imitate this behavior. Whenever he heard people talking about Gutei’s teachings, he would interrupt the discussion and raise his finger.
Gutei heard about the boy’s mischief. When he saw him in the street, he seized him and cut off his finger. The boy cried and began to run off, but Gutei called out to him.
When the boy turned to look, Gutei raised his finger into the air. At that moment the boy became enlightened.
Whenever anyone asked him about Zen, the great master Gutei would quietly raise one finger into the air.
A boy in the village began to imitate this behavior. Whenever he heard people talking about Gutei’s teachings, he would interrupt the discussion and raise his finger.
Gutei heard about the boy’s mischief. When he saw him in the street, he seized him and cut off his finger. The boy cried and began to run off, but Gutei called out to him.
When the boy turned to look, Gutei raised his finger into the air. At that moment the boy became enlightened.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
What does Blue sound like?
What does joy taste like?
What does air feel like?
This is only a part of Zen practices there are other aspects outside of the koan and a whole lot of history too
Monadnock
2nd Black Belt
So, as we narrow our definition of Zen, what is its relavence in the martial arts? How can it be beneficial to your practice?
If Zen points to the Way, and the Way is in everything, then isn't it inseperable form the Martial Arts? Whether or not you acknowledge it, or actively incorporate it into your classes, it is there then, isn't it?
If Zen points to the Way, and the Way is in everything, then isn't it inseperable form the Martial Arts? Whether or not you acknowledge it, or actively incorporate it into your classes, it is there then, isn't it?
OP
OP
What does Blue sound like?
What does joy taste like?
What does air feel like?
Children playing
Muffins
invigorating
...but I guess you didn't mean that literally now did ya? ooooookay.....
Maybe In need to start with the history first then and work my way from there.
And this is where I have trouble. Maybe I am too literal of a person. Maybe I need substance and a solution to come to that is solid and can be proven.
Oh, sure, I am still trying to understand what it is, now you go and be all deeper meaning on me...thanks~!
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