What is the Marketing Budget of different Martial Arts Schools?

WaterGal

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-MA = martial arts
-Of income is Gross income
- 6% is on top of the 11. Branding and brand awareness is a different beast than marketing.
-The $2,400 initial set up can vary greatly from agency to agency... I have not seen any agency last year set up a client for under $2,000 and it can range as high as 10,000, dependent upon ad spend and agency in-house resources (some agencies will outsource some services such as cold call out reach, etc). This covers setup of your client dashboard, which includes SEO analytics so you can monitor progress, Integration platform, setting up your e-mail validation and e-mail & URL warming software, setting up social media accounts and content calendar for auto posting, e-mail accounts for specific promotions, customer relations management account, Initial consultation to determine your specific niche target and your marketing expectations as well as developing a 1 yr road map which lays out & matches our responsibilities to your expectations, Sometimes the two cannot be made to meet, in which case we deny the project and you would be looking for a different agency. Etc.
-Sources: Just like real estate agents buy mlm listing resouces, car sales buy blue bcoks for car values etc, etc, marketing agencies buy data sets.
- If you are doing all this yourself, you will have to buy the software to do all of the above
Where are you getting these figures?

Martial arts CRM software systems (Spark, Mindbody, Kicksite, Zenplanner, etc) are generally cloud-based SAAS systems in the $100-250/month range, with no setup cost. I think the more popular lead generation website providers in this industry (Market Muscles, 93 Display, etc) are priced similarly. So you're looking at $0 upfront and $200-500/month ongoing. Then you have social media ad spends, which could be anywhere from $50-500/month depending on a lot of factors, plus potentially some extra if you're hiring someone to manage them for you, but again, that's a monthly cost.
 

JowGaWolf

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Average national marketing spend for the MA niche is 11% of income... If you are building out your brand, you will require an initial set-up of approx. $2,400 if you go through an agency, with a monthly spend of your 11% plus 6% dedicated to branding.
If you are doing all the work, initial investment in software will be much higher.
Create a website. Use the school Facebook page to push people to your website. Show what you do with the same energy that people have when they post about what food they are eating.
You should be able to do all of that for less than $2000
 

bushido

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Water Gal:
Where are you getting these figures?

Martial arts CRM software systems (Spark, Mindbody, Kicksite, Zenplanner, etc) are generally cloud-based SAAS systems in the $100-250/month range, with no setup cost. I think the more popular lead generation website providers in this industry (Market Muscles, 93 Display, etc) are priced similarly. So you're looking at $0 upfront and $200-500/month ongoing. Then you have social media ad spends, which could be anywhere from $50-500/month depending on a lot of factors, plus potentially some extra if you're hiring someone to manage them for you, but again, that's a monthly cost.
I don't know of any company that is going to generate a couple of thousand niche specific leads a month for you for $200... if you can, hell, do it. And 60 mixed ( 1,200 - 2,500 ) original niche specific articles each and every month is going to cost you waaay more time (read money) than what we charge. A good ad copy writer alone is how much? And, do you have the ability to do targeted cold-call out reach? How much does it cost to develop a 10,000 list.. a clean list, not a scraped facebook garbage list? And after you have that list, can you keep them out of the spam folder? I can... And you have nothing in your saas platforms that is going to help you build out IP & complimentary products to expand your business. And, seeing as you are on the subject, do you have any idea what the price of Geo Marketing is? Your little $200 platform has nothing that will help you with this.
I know what we do for our clients... I am well worth the money. But, I also recognize that the vast majority of business owners just want to be a ma & pa shop. Nothing wrong with that. Mundane is good for the majority. Then you just need a few fliers, put on a demo every now and then, post to your facebook when ever you think about it... you know, all the things that the 200k saas platform subscribers are doing ;)
 

bushido

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Create a website. Use the school Facebook page to push people to your website. Show what you do with the same energy that people have when they post about what food they are eating.
You should be able to do all of that for less than $2000
For sure... But that is not what we do. We build brands and drive traffic. If you are not willing to grow, we will flood you with traffic and clients, and they will just go to waste because you do not have the infrastructure to deal with it.
 

dvcochran

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Water Gal:

I don't know of any company that is going to generate a couple of thousand niche specific leads a month for you for $200... if you can, hell, do it. And 60 mixed ( 1,200 - 2,500 ) original niche specific articles each and every month is going to cost you waaay more time (read money) than what we charge. A good ad copy writer alone is how much? And, do you have the ability to do targeted cold-call out reach? How much does it cost to develop a 10,000 list.. a clean list, not a scraped facebook garbage list? And after you have that list, can you keep them out of the spam folder? I can... And you have nothing in your saas platforms that is going to help you build out IP & complimentary products to expand your business. And, seeing as you are on the subject, do you have any idea what the price of Geo Marketing is? Your little $200 platform has nothing that will help you with th
I know what we do for our clients... I am well worth the money. But, I also recognize that the vast majority of business owners just want to be a ma & pa shop. Nothing wrong with that. Mundane is good for the majority. Then you just need a few fliers, put on a demo every now and then, post to your facebook when ever you think about it... you know, all the things that the 200k saas platform subscribers are doing ;)
That is great and all, but you are fishing in the wrong pond, and apparently do not realize it.
Most schools are independently owned, usually consisting of one location. Occasionally there will be two or three. There are systems/businesses out there that try consolidation but it is small in scope.
This is not at all what you are describing which is akin to a corporation structure with multiple sources of revenue, selling a product.
Furthermore, why would I want to oversell my space, teaching/training limits (no. of instructors), reputation, or business? Especially in a service industry, that is a quick recipe for failure and bankruptcy.

It is great that you know your business and can crow about what you do. But you do not know what/who you are talking to. @WaterGal has a very successful, robust MA's business.

I do not know if you are here trolling to drum up business or genuinely here for martial arts discussion. So far it has been the former. If this is the case your time can be better spent elsewhere.

"We build brands and drive traffic." C'mon man. I am a marketing noob and know how to get this done to maximize my needs.
 

Tony Dismukes

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And, do you have the ability to do targeted cold-call out reach?
Cold calling - for martial arts students? Ive been training martial arts for 40 years and Ive never gotten or heard of someone getting a cold call promoting a martial arts school. If I did get one, it wouldnt particularly motivate me to visit that school.

Offhand, given the percentage of people who express interest in martial arts that actually show up for training and stick around, Im skeptical that cold calling would produce enough students to make it financially worthwhile. But maybe Im wrong. I remember reading about a chain of karate schools (in Australia, I think) that operates on a sort of MLM/door-to-door sales model and is apparently making money. (If not producing competent martial artists.)
 

Dirty Dog

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Cold calling - for martial arts students? Ive been training martial arts for 40 years and Ive never gotten or heard of someone getting a cold call promoting a martial arts school. If I did get one, it wouldnt particularly motivate me to visit that school.
A cold-call about ANYTHING is pretty much a sure fire way to ensure I never have anything to do with that company.
 

WaterGal

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Water Gal:

I don't know of any company that is going to generate a couple of thousand niche specific leads a month for you for $200... if you can, hell, do it. And 60 mixed ( 1,200 - 2,500 ) original niche specific articles each and every month is going to cost you waaay more time (read money) than what we charge. A good ad copy writer alone is how much? And, do you have the ability to do targeted cold-call out reach? How much does it cost to develop a 10,000 list.. a clean list, not a scraped facebook garbage list? And after you have that list, can you keep them out of the spam folder? I can... And you have nothing in your saas platforms that is going to help you build out IP & complimentary products to expand your business. And, seeing as you are on the subject, do you have any idea what the price of Geo Marketing is? Your little $200 platform has nothing that will help you with this.
I know what we do for our clients... I am well worth the money. But, I also recognize that the vast majority of business owners just want to be a ma & pa shop. Nothing wrong with that. Mundane is good for the majority. Then you just need a few fliers, put on a demo every now and then, post to your facebook when ever you think about it... you know, all the things that the 200k saas platform subscribers are doing ;)
There are very, very, very few martial arts schools who are going to be able to handle a couple of thousand prospective trial students every month. Having a total client base that's even anywhere close to a thousand active students is vanishingly rare in this industry.

The type of marketing service that you're describing might be suitable for, say, a B2B company that's providing services to gyms nationwide. But for your typical local martial arts school serving a small city or suburban community with 10-100k total residents, it's really an absurd level of overkill.
 

WaterGal

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It is great that you know your business and can crow about what you do. But you do not know what/who you are talking to. @WaterGal has a very successful, robust MA's business.

Aww, thanks :shamefullyembarrased:. We're doing pretty well for a small-town mom & pop school, but there are definitely much bigger fish out there!
 

bushido

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That is great and all, but you are fishing in the wrong pond, and apparently do not realize it.
Most schools are independently owned, usually consisting of one location. Occasionally there will be two or three. There are systems/businesses out there that try consolidation but it is small in scope.
This is not at all what you are describing which is akin to a corporation structure with multiple sources of revenue, selling a product.
Furthermore, why would I want to oversell my space, teaching/training limits (no. of instructors), reputation, or business? Especially in a service industry, that is a quick recipe for failure and bankruptcy.

It is great that you know your business and can crow about what you do. But you do not know what/who you are talking to. @WaterGal has a very successful, robust MA's business.

I do not know if you are here trolling to drum up business or genuinely here for martial arts discussion. So far it has been the former. If this is the case your time can be better spent elsewhere.

"We build brands and drive traffic." C'mon man. I am a marketing noob and know how to get this done to maximize my needs.
True enough, and I realize most are just single location owners... but we do build out other products that you can mass sell, such as books, courses, clothing (we do not design the clothing of course, but we do design the artwork to align with your branding.

And, sorry, for what it is worth, I am not here to drum up business... I answered a question, I did not start the topic. And I did not continue to post on this thread. I replied to these comments because of the way the comments are worded.

Sorry, I'll refrain from answering any thing that is not directly related to my MA experience.
 

bushido

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There are very, very, very few martial arts schools who are going to be able to handle a couple of thousand prospective trial students every month. Having a total client base that's even anywhere close to a thousand active students is vanishingly rare in this industry.

The type of marketing service that you're describing might be suitable for, say, a B2B company that's providing services to gyms nationwide. But for your typical local martial arts school serving a small city or suburban community with 10-100k total residents, it's really an absurd level of overkill.
Sorry, let me clarify... we build out a brand, so you do have complimentary products to increase your income. That is your cold call focus.
We use Geo marketing to target your local and increase student enrollment.
Two different means to two different ends
 

bushido

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"I do not know if you are here trolling to drum up business or genuinely here for martial arts discussion. So far it has been the former. If this is the case your time can be better spent elsewhere."

Really Sir? I have what, 45 posts, and this was the first time I ANSWERED a marketing related post, and that is your take from it?
 

dvcochran

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True enough, and I realize most are just single location owners... but we do build out other products that you can mass sell, such as books, courses, clothing (we do not design the clothing of course, but we do design the artwork to align with your branding.

And, sorry, for what it is worth, I am not here to drum up business... I answered a question, I did not start the topic. And I did not continue to post on this thread. I replied to these comments because of the way the comments are worded.

Sorry, I'll refrain from answering any thing that is not directly related to my MA experience.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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"I do not know if you are here trolling to drum up business or genuinely here for martial arts discussion. So far it has been the former. If this is the case your time can be better spent elsewhere."

Really Sir? I have what, 45 posts, and this was the first time I ANSWERED a marketing related post, and that is your take from it?
For what it's worth, it did not read to me like you are here to drum up business. I don't think you've even mentioned what your business name is, and like you said you responded to someone else's question, and then follow up questions.
 

dvcochran

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True enough, and I realize most are just single location owners... but we do build out other products that you can mass sell, such as books, courses, clothing (we do not design the clothing of course, but we do design the artwork to align with your branding.

And, sorry, for what it is worth, I am not here to drum up business... I answered a question, I did not start the topic. And I did not continue to post on this thread. I replied to these comments because of the way the comments are worded.

Sorry, I'll refrain from answering any thing that is not directly related to my MA experience.

Really Sir? I have what, 45 posts, and this was the first time I ANSWERED a marketing related post, and that is your take from it?
In a matter of 10 minutes, you went from the first quote to the second.

So, which one displays your actual opinion? They are going pretty hard in opposite directions.

There are people here with over 20k posts on here and you are lamenting about your 45? Again, c'mon man.

I had originally replied 'no worries and glad you are here'. Then I read the second post. And I retracted my comments.

No one is asking you to refrain from anything. But you should understand you will be challenged when it has merit. Believe me, I have been bashed on here more times than I can remember. And it will happen again.
 

bushido

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There are people here with over 20k posts on here and you are lamenting about your 45? Again, c'mon man.
What I was trying to say, was that I have 45 other posts, and not one of them had anything to do with pushing a marketing agenda... I was trying to give somebody an idea of cost to hire a professional marketing agency, and what we provide for that kind of service. Now they have a good idea of what a marketing & branding plan should include.
And I don't give a flyin rats a$$ if you criticize me or not, but don't get pissy with me either if I back up what I say.
 

dvcochran

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What I was trying to say, was that I have 45 other posts, and not one of them had anything to do with pushing a marketing agenda... I was trying to give somebody an idea of cost to hire a professional marketing agency, and what we provide for that kind of service. Now they have a good idea of what a marketing & branding plan should include.
And I don't give a flyin rats a$$ if you criticize me or not, but don't get pissy with me either if I back up what I say.
Pissy, that's funny. If that was 'pissy', you will always be in trouble here. Not used to being challenged about your work are you?
What you did was give Your idea of cost to hire a professional agency, More accurately, what you have been trained to try and assert on prospects as the only truth. Which, of course, is a bare faced lie.

And where did you back it up? You just spewed your sales pitch with no substance or data.

Several people have already responded in regard to the extreme numbers and results you claimed. Since your bluff was called, I see no need in doing it again.
Like I previously said, if you/your agency can pull off the crap you claimed (in other business dynamics) good on ya.

But I strongly encourage you to do your due diligence before peddling your services here or anywhere else for that matter.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Water Gal:

I don't know of any company that is going to generate a couple of thousand niche specific leads a month for you for $200... if you can, hell, do it. And 60 mixed ( 1,200 - 2,500 ) original niche specific articles each and every month is going to cost you waaay more time (read money) than what we charge. A good ad copy writer alone is how much? And, do you have the ability to do targeted cold-call out reach? How much does it cost to develop a 10,000 list.. a clean list, not a scraped facebook garbage list? And after you have that list, can you keep them out of the spam folder? I can... And you have nothing in your saas platforms that is going to help you build out IP & complimentary products to expand your business. And, seeing as you are on the subject, do you have any idea what the price of Geo Marketing is? Your little $200 platform has nothing that will help you with this.
I know what we do for our clients... I am well worth the money. But, I also recognize that the vast majority of business owners just want to be a ma & pa shop. Nothing wrong with that. Mundane is good for the majority. Then you just need a few fliers, put on a demo every now and then, post to your facebook when ever you think about it... you know, all the things that the 200k saas platform subscribers are doing ;)
I don't know anyone in the MA world who would have the time to deal with a couple thousand leads a month. I'm sure there are some (those with staff and multiple schools, probably), but I haven't seen them.

Most MA schools are probably looking for a couple dozen real, interested people a month.

Or maybe when you say leads, you're talking about the starting point for calls and such, to try to find those interested parties. That would be a very diffferent approach, and would need more staff and/or money than makes sense for most schools.

What you do may be highly valuable to your MA clients. If so, they already have much bigger operations than any I've been around.
 

bushido

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That's cool DV , I'm not here to argue with you, and I'm not here to sell to you. I answered the OP in a way that I thought would be helpful. Sorry you did not find it so.
 
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bushido

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I don't know anyone in the MA world who would have the time to deal with a couple thousand leads a month. I'm sure there are some (those with staff and multiple schools, probably), but I haven't seen them.

Most MA schools are probably looking for a couple dozen real, interested people a month.

Or maybe when you say leads, you're talking about the starting point for calls and such, to try to find those interested parties. That would be a very diffferent approach, and would need more staff and/or money than makes sense for most schools.

What you do may be highly valuable to your MA clients. If so, they already have much bigger operations than any I've been around.
I will just say, again, that if your idea of growing your business is just filling your student roster, you're just looking for a handful of students, just do some flyers, etc...
But that is a very limited view of your profit potential... Why would you not want to monetize your website? Even if it is only through affiliate links or ppc banners? Why not have a cool looking brand and sell workout clothing? Supplements with your logo on them? Video courses? And on & on & on... All you need is the structure, something to sell, the traffic and the leads.
That is all stuff I think every business owner should be doing in one way or another.
You do what you think is right for you and yours. Some just want a small gym, some want to grow beyond that. That's why you look at marketing.
My idea of growing a business is just different than your idea of growing a business.
But this is the digital age... confining your potential to a brick and mortar is going to a limiting factor on how much you can earn in your chosen field.
 
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