What is Modern Arnis?

[Datu Tim Hartman]

So I’ve been toying with this thread topic for the last month or so. What are the verifiable influences of Modern Arnis? Now there will be some difference of opinions, so let’s play nice! I’ll start this with the following,

From Balintawak:
12 angles of attack
Disarm #1 (the lever)
Tapi – Tapi

Small Circle Jujitsu:
Most of the locks and throws

Shotokan Karate:
Structure of the open hand forms.

Presas Family system:
Palis – palis
Banda y banda
Figure – 8

Remeber I said influences.


:asian:

 

[Makalakumu]

Mr. Hartman

How big of an influence has Shotokan has on Modern Arnis players? I watched the videos of you performing MA kata on Martial Talk, but I've seen other MA players move much differently then is displayed in the forms. Do MA players make an effort to interpret the forms (bunkai) or is there some other functional component to that training?

Thanks

upnorthkyosa

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Remy created the hand forms because he was competing against Shotokan for a share on the martial arts market in the PI. Remy always had me teach the forms with a karate feel to them, because he like to see the power that could be generated. Now I don’t feel that they have much influence on the rest of the system, although I use them as reference point when teaching certain techniques.

:asian:

 

[Dan Anderson]

Judo
A number of the sweeps & throws.
Presas family system
abanico
espada y daga (possible influence includes Hermanio Binas - according to Mark Wiley's Filipino Martial Culture, Binas taught Remy Presas at one time and Binas' "...dynamic arnis is remiscent of the classical espada y daga styles of Negros, Occidental, central Philippines."
Dr. Guillermo Lengson
sinawali (possibly redonda?)
Cacoy Canete
twirling (possibly redonda because of the double cane twirling?)

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Dan Anderson]

Mr. Hartman

How big of an influence has Shotokan has on Modern Arnis players? I watched the videos of you performing MA kata on Martial Talk, but I've seen other MA players move much differently then is displayed in the forms. Do MA players make an effort to interpret the forms (bunkai) or is there some other functional component to that training?

Thanks

upnorthkyosa

Basically it's in the empty hand anyos (kata). A lot of the blocking, stepping, punching, is very Japanese kata based. The stress on perfect form is nowhere like Shotokan kata. RP allowed a lot of variance due to the broad number of stylists he taught. Anyo #1, done by a kenpo player looks a bit different than done by a taekwondo player. The key thing was the template. From one person to the next the basic template was the same. As to the bunkai, RP's tape #4 had some applications for each of the anyos but there are more applications than just those.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Presas family system
espada y daga (possible influence includes Hermanio Binas - according to Mark Wiley's Filipino Martial Culture, Binas taught Remy Presas at one time and Binas' "...dynamic arnis is remiscent of the classical espada y daga styles of Negros, Occidental, central Philippines."

Would this be other than Palis - Palis?

Cacoy Canete
twirling (possibly redonda because of the double cane twirling?)

Where did you get this from? When Remy introduced me to GM Cacoy, he made no reference to this.

:asian:

 

[Dan Anderson]

Would this be other than Palis - Palis?

I think there is the possibility but I have no data one way or the other.

Where did you get this from? When Remy introduced me to GM Cacoy, he made no reference to this.

:asian:

From the video interview with Joe Rebelo.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[DrBarber]

So I’ve been toying with this thread topic for the last month or so. What are the verifiable influences of Modern Arnis? Now there will be some difference of opinions, so let’s play nice! I’ll start this with the following,

From Balintawak:
12 angles of attack
Disarm #1 (the lever)
Tapi – Tapi

Small Circle Jujitsu:
Most of the locks and throws

Shotokan Karate:
Structure of the open hand forms.

Presas Family system:
Palis – palis
Banda y banda
Figure – 8

Remeber I said influences.


:asian:

Good stuff and in another post Dan Anderson added judo as an influence. This would be constant with information from an interview that Professor did with Guro Rick Mitchell that was published in Indide Kung Fu in December
1989 and January 1990. Crossada and Palis-palis were the styles taught to Professor by his grandfather Leon Presas. Balintawak, was learned later from three instructors, Maranga, Moncol and Bacon. Somewhere along the way Professor learned and in turn taught both Shotokan and Judo at De La Salle University BEFORE he began officially teaching Modern Arnis. Professor offically opened his instruction in Modern Arnis in 1959.

As I remember studying Modern Arnis with Professor from 1981 - 1994, I would disagree slightly with your reference to SMJJ. Professor had and
used jiu-jitsu references prior to meeting and working as part of a trio with Professor Wally Jay. What I saw over time was a slimming down and tightening of his jiu-jitsu work within Modern Arnis. In effect Professor tightened the circles and closed down the potential areas for escape that "might have" existed as he was setting the lock, because of his working with Professor Jay.

I also must note that in the 1983 Ohara Publication of Modern Arnis, there is mention made of Kenpo as an influencing art with regard to Professor and Modern Arnis. No specific details are provided, however, if one researches the connections established by Professor in 1975 -1985, Kenpo in the form of Kajukenbo is readily apparent. One of the principle people to aid Professor in getting started in the USA as a legal expatriate exile was Sifu/Guro Max Pallen. Another Kajukenbo instructor associated with Professor and Modern Arnis was Sifu Fred King. It was Sifu King who introducted SM Dan Anderson to Professor and Modern Arnis in 1980. PG Eddie Lastra, attended the very first Modern Arnis Seminar in the USA at Max Pallen's San Francisco school in 1975. I believe that he has a photo or two of that event on his web site.

My instructor, Sifu Don Zanghi, mixed Tracy System Kenpo and Modern Arnis from white through black belt, with the expressed acknowledgement and encouragement of both Professor and GM Al Tracy. Through my training with Sifu Zanghi and with seniors such as John Bryant, David Battaglia, David Smith, Tammy Wilson and Kathy Saxer, as my early mentors at the Fighting Back Institute, I can attest to the effectiness of Tracy Kenpo techniques and principles of motion when blended into Modern Arnis.

People should also consider the significance of the American Modern Arnis video clips as produced by Sifu/Guro Tom Bolden. Sifu Tom was trained in CHA-3 Kenpo and Pancipanci Eskrima in Hawaii during the 1960's and 70's before he met Professor. When you watch his videos, there is little doubt as the effectiveness of blending Kenpo (Kajukenbo) and Modern Arnis. Speed, power and precision are the hallmarks of the AMAA program. There is no doubt in my mind regarding Kenpo as an influence on Professor and in Modern Arnis.

I would be more than willing to provide instruction to anyone who wants to learn about the connections between Modern Arnis and Kenpo. Professor endorsed my Erie Community College martial arts program which was a definate, blatant and open blending of Tracy Kenpo and Modern Arnis in 1989. I was teaching and expanding upon my instructors' program at that time and have since expanded the program concepts. Both GM Tracy and
PG Bolden also endoresed and signed off on my ECC curriculum in 1992. To the best of my knowledge my ECC program is the only Modern Arnis college program that is taught for academic credit in the USA and that Professor Presas ever publicly endorsed and gave written approval to teach. Professor signed my curriculum in April 1989.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.
Professor ECC
[email protected]

 

[Dan Anderson]

As I remember studying Modern Arnis with Professor from 1981 - 1994, I would disagree slightly with your reference to SMJJ.

RP had tons of locks prior to SMJJ and was very good at them. They got nastier exponentially when he met and worked with Prof. Jay of SMJJ.

I also must note that in the 1983 Ohara Publication of Modern Arnis, there is mention made of Kenpo as an influencing art with regard to Professor and Modern Arnis. No specific details are provided, Jerome Barber, Ed.D.
Professor ECC
[email protected]

Dang - I totally missed that one but here it is in the book:
"When Remy Amador Presas first traveled his country, he took what he considered to be the most effective principles of each island style and combined them with his own knokwledge of other martial arts, such as karate, judo and kenpo." last paragraph, 1st page of the history section.

Plus I haven't heard the names John Bryant, Tammy Wilson and Kathy Saxer for quite some time. Reminds me of my first seminar tour with John back in 1986...or was it 1987? Wow.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[arnisador]

Yeah, it's been a long time since I saw those folks too...I think I met John Bryant around 1983 to 1985, at a single-day event. I don't think I've seen him since around 1989 or so.

 

[Mark Lynn]

In regards to the espada y daga (EYD)

Ref. The Practical Art of Eskrima
Chapter: The Spanish Techniques

Most of the techniques in this chapter do not use the palis palis entry but rather a cross block and then the follow up which included
Upward Double Zero
Downward Double Zero
Backhand Double Zero
Banda y banda
Rompida
Figure eight
Abaniko
(in fact some of these sequences mid way through the pictures change to double stick)

And then the pictues change to double stick techniques.

From training with both GM Ernesto and GM Remy, a common thread of GM Ernesto's system is doing the same technique with different weapons. I believe the same thing is found in MA as well which is why many of the techniques are repeated in the different weapon combination systems or components in the art.

I remember only at one seminar/camp with Remy that we did the cross block with EYD and one with Palis Palis and while practicing EYD.

Mark

 

[Dan Anderson]

In regards to the espada y daga (EYD)
I remember only at one seminar/camp with Remy that we did the cross block with EYD and one with Palis Palis and while practicing EYD.

Mark

Ayeeeee. How could I forget Crossada done with the stick and dagger??? I've only featured them in two of my books! Asleep at the keyboard. Thanks, Mark, for the reminder.

Yours,
Dan

 

[Bester]

We know when someone is selling something or having a seminar but there hasn't been as much sharing of content lately.

Glad to see the changes from before when people would drop their books, videos, credentials and names of non-players. Yep. Great progress.

The "Bester" answer to this topic:
What is "Modern Arnis"? -
1) A hybrid system of martial arts developed over several decades by the late Grandmaster Remy A. Presas.
2) A name hidden behind by small minded egomaniacs who can't seem to discuss things without somehow banging their chest and digging at others.
3) Something when mispronounced, earns the speaker an *** whupping.

 

[arnisador]

Hmmm, hybrid may be technically correct, but I don't think of it that way. I think of it as FMA with some Japanese material grafted on, but not as central or essential.

 

[DrBarber]

Edited and deleted a portion of original post:

My instructor, Sifu Don Zanghi, mixed Tracy System Kenpo and Modern Arnis from white through black belt, with the expressed acknowledgement and encouragement of both Professor and GM Al Tracy. ...I can attest to the effectiness of Tracy Kenpo techniques and principles of motion when blended into Modern Arnis.

People should also consider the significance of the American Modern Arnis video clips as produced by Sifu/Guro Tom Bolden. Sifu Tom was trained in CHA-3 Kenpo and Pancipanci Eskrima in Hawaii during the 1960's and 70's before he met Professor. When you watch his videos, there is little doubt as the effectiveness of blending Kenpo (Kajukenbo) and Modern Arnis. Speed, power and precision are the hallmarks of the AMAA program. There is no doubt in my mind regarding Kenpo as an influence on Professor and in Modern Arnis.

http://forum.aspoonful.com/groupee/forums

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

Professor ECC

[email protected][/

I dug up some of my old training notes from Sifu Don Zanghi and he also mailed me an old IMAF newsletter from 1986 so I can add some material about the Kenpo Connection to Modern Arnis. Some of the Kenpo trained people who were very actively involved with Professor Presas during the middle to late 1980's were Fred King, Joe Breidenstein, Dennis Toston, Barbara Bones, Janesa Kruse, Lee Lowery, Jim Clapp, Judy Clapp, Bodden Sween, Joe Foster, Tom Bolden, Rick Mitchell and Don Zanghi.

I have deliberately omitted John Bryant from the above list because even though he was trained in Tracy Kenpo under Sifu Don Zanghi, he chose to omit any and all Kenpo techniques from his Modern Arnis program at the Filipino Martial Arts Academy, in Amherst NY. Since we both trained under the same instructor, Don Zanghi, and I retained plus added more Kenpo in the form of advanced Tracy through the Sandan level with some CHA-3 Kenpo from PG Tom Bolden, my Modern Arnis has some significant differences from what one would experience from Dave Smith, Tammy Wilson and Tim Hartman, all of whom were students of John.

A significant comment is in order here because if one reviews the orignal 5 video tapes made by Professor in 1984 & 1985, the primary assistants are Jim Clapp, Judy Clapp and Lee Lowery. And all are Kenpo trained black belts prior to meeting Professor. The dye is clearly cast and the picture is quite clear, Modern Arnis and Kenpo are connected.

A couple of pieces of information that some of you will find interesting are as follows: in 1986 there were 9 underbelts in Modern Arnis and the gradings ranged from Antas Isa to Lakan. That's right, Lakan is an underbelt, part of the "rainbow". Since the newsletter is an official IMAF publication, it has to be considered as an accurate reflection of Professor's thinking at that point in time. This piece of information gives the contention by some folks that the "Lakan" grading is akin to being a probationary title some serious support.

However, in my opinion, "Lakan" Is Not the first level of the black belt rankings, it is last grade of the underbelt rankings and has no other value. The black belt sequence begins with a seperation in the ranking column from the underbelt titles and has a seperate heading with the titles Lakan Isa, Lakan Dalawa, Lakan Tat-lo and Lakan A-pat. There only the four ranks listed in the 1986 document. One can assume that the highest ranked USA Modern Arnis person would hold the rank of Lakan A-pat. However there is no statement as to who that might be.

I also noticed that there was a reference to Dan Anderson as an IMAF Senior Instructor. Gad zooks, a documented reference to Dan as a long time IMAF member and senior instructor, so some of the guff about Dan being a "Johnnie-come-lately" to the art is without merit.

If anyone would like to have a copy of the newsletter, send me your s-mail address and I will forward you a copy.

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.

Independent Escrima-Kenpo-Arnis

 

[Dan Anderson]

Another Kajukenbo instructor associated with Professor and Modern Arnis was Sifu Fred King. It was Sifu King who introducted SM Dan Anderson to Professor and Modern Arnis in 1980.
Jerome Barber, Ed.D.
Professor ECC
[email protected]

Yes,
Freddy was very instrumental to introducing a lot of the Pacific Northwesterners to Prof. Presas. What isn't broadly known about Fred is that he is the only person I know to have been promoted to Professor status by Remy Presas and Wally Jay. He, Barbara Bones, and Janesa Kruse were very active in promoting Prof. Presas in his early days in the Pac NW. Another martial artist to mention is Leonard Trigg, who was the first one to bring RP to our area.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Brother John]

So I’ve been toying with this thread topic for the last month or so. What are the verifiable influences of Modern Arnis?
Small Circle Jujitsu:
Most of the locks and throws

Remeber I said influences.
:asian:

I'm just trying to get a better handle on this.
By saying "influences" are you saying that Mr. Presas studied Small Circle Jujitsu, or just that the locks and throws are very "Small Circle Jujitsu....like"??

Did he 'study' it, or did he just glean something from it?
thanks

Your Brother
John

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Remy was best friends with Wally Jay and they both cross-trained with each other.

 

[Dan Anderson]

I'm just trying to get a better handle on this.
By saying "influences" are you saying that Mr. Presas studied Small Circle Jujitsu, or just that the locks and throws are very "Small Circle Jujitsu....like"??

Did he 'study' it, or did he just glean something from it?
thanks

Your Brother
John

Hi John,

Prof. Presas was an incredible observer. Couple that with the fact that he was "road buddies" with Prof. Jay for 15 years or so, I think the word "studied" works. He wasn't Prof. Jay's student as Prof. Jay was not his. They were peers and more important, dear friends. They studied each other rather than from each other.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[arnisador]

He had studied Judo and there were already locks and throws in the FMA. I think that Wally Jay's influence was to improve the effectiveness of what was already there.