What if the white belt replaced the black belt as the top belt?

Wing Woo Gar

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Which still won't help with mixed neurologic signals...

No, just a night dive. Different critters come out to play at different times of the day. Want to see Lobster, Squid, Octopus and Eel out and about, instead of hiding in holes? Night dive. Want to see some of the really weird fish that live inconveniently deep without becoming a technical diver? Night dive. Want to see Mana Ray feeding? Night dive. Want to see some of the strangest mini-critters in the world? Black water night dive, ideally with a UV lamp.
I'm guessing you won't be joining me for a cave dive?

Care to share what happened?

I'm guessing you're a recreational diver, not technical. Safe bet, since less than 5% ever do even the most basic tech dive training. I'm a tech diver; wreck, cave, trimix, hypoxic trimix... I'm certified for everything except rebreathers. I've dove a rebreather, but I'm not certified. But neither Sue nor Kim do tech diving. And most of our dives are recreational, "let's go look at some fish" stuff. The best depth for that in the Caribbean is less than 80 feet. In places like Bonaire and Curacao, it's less than 50.

Strapping on 6 tanks with 4 different gas mixes for a 400 foot wreck dive allows you to see some amazing things. But it's also a lot of work.

Yes. It's pretty common (unfortunately) for dive guides in areas that cater to the sort of diver who does 2 dives a year to carry a bag of this sort of thing and use it to get fish to move close to divers.

I usually carry a ziplock bag with some chocolate covered Oreos on long dives. You can eat them on deco stops, and the chocolate keeps them from getting soggy and icky in the water.


Revenge pranks are half the fun.

And (at least sort of) on the original topic, just as students don't care what color my belt is, other divers don't care if I'm diving a backplate and wing with doubles and long hose, or a rented poodle jacket. Students can tell if you know what you're doing. So can divers.
You would know right away I am an amateur diver, and a rusty one at that.
 

Dirty Dog

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I am indeed a recreational diver. I started with a PADI open water cert at 16. Did a bit of bug hunting and spear fishing. Now I live in humboldt so its cold and murky. The accident was off Catalina. 120 ft wreck dive. As we approached the bottom one of my friends signaled no air. His twin brother assisted him and we began our ascent immediately. Something in the o ring and valve had malfunctioned under pressure that prevented air from leaving the tank. Everyone surfaced ok but it was a group breathing effort. Not something I care to relive.
O rings are great. They're also easy to forget when doing gear checks. Sounds like the O ring slipped and occluded the 1st stage regulator. Or the O ring was fine, and the first stage reg failed. You know, I assume, that your depth did not cause the O ring to slip?
Events like that can be scary, but the ascent shouldn't have been that difficult. Why were you both sharing air? If you had just descended, his brother should have had abundant air for both to ascend safely.

The one and only potentially dangerous equipment failure I've ever personally witnessed, ever, was an O ring failure. We were about 60-ish feet down, at the end of a dive off Cozumel, when the guides O ring totally blew out. That will empty your tank in short order, especially at the end of the dive. I was (as usual) at the back of the group. The other 5 divers just looked (which reenforced my long held opinion that recreational divers, in general, don't practice "oh crap" stuff near enough) while I swam past them and handed my primary regulator to the guide. This is a tech/rec training difference. Rec divers are taught to hand over the secondary reg. Tech divers hand over the primary, generally with the purge valve pressed during the transfer; we keep it flowing so they can breathe instantly, and do not turn loose till it's in their mouth. Because I just took a breath off it, and there's gas coming out as it's transferred, the person KNOWS, 100%, that they will get something breathable. And our primary is on a 10' hose, which means once she was on it, and I was sure she was ok, I could signal ascent to the rest of the group, shoot my SMB (which you cannot safely do while hugging each other the way you must to share air on rec gear) and head for the surface. And since I always dive in tech gear, I had two 100CF tanks instead of 1. On a recreational dive, I will generally have 2400-2500 PSI left after the first dive, so there was no need to even skip the safety stop.
I will at least check out the cave if its less than 55 ft but unless its huge Im not going in there.
I was kidding, and I hope you are too. If you're not cave trained, please do not ever go into a cave. There is a reason caves that are regularly used by divers have signs like these:
1669928437521.png
1669928456549.png
1669928473898.png

Well on the prank note, I have been known to super glue toes together when the drunk guy passes out on the boat. The best is when you wake him up and he tries to put his flip flops on (slippas if you are from Hawaii).
I have never passed out drunk, I have only been (mildly) drunk once in my life, and no responsible dive shop should allow people to dive if they have been drinking. So I am safe from this prank, at least.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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O rings are great. They're also easy to forget when doing gear checks. Sounds like the O ring slipped and occluded the 1st stage regulator. Or the O ring was fine, and the first stage reg failed. You know, I assume, that your depth did not cause the O ring to slip?
Events like that can be scary, but the ascent shouldn't have been that difficult. Why were you both sharing air? If you had just descended, his brother should have had abundant air for both to ascend safely.

The one and only potentially dangerous equipment failure I've ever personally witnessed, ever, was an O ring failure. We were about 60-ish feet down, at the end of a dive off Cozumel, when the guides O ring totally blew out. That will empty your tank in short order, especially at the end of the dive. I was (as usual) at the back of the group. The other 5 divers just looked (which reenforced my long held opinion that recreational divers, in general, don't practice "oh crap" stuff near enough) while I swam past them and handed my primary regulator to the guide. This is a tech/rec training difference. Rec divers are taught to hand over the secondary reg. Tech divers hand over the primary, generally with the purge valve pressed during the transfer; we keep it flowing so they can breathe instantly, and do not turn loose till it's in their mouth. Because I just took a breath off it, and there's gas coming out as it's transferred, the person KNOWS, 100%, that they will get something breathable. And our primary is on a 10' hose, which means once she was on it, and I was sure she was ok, I could signal ascent to the rest of the group, shoot my SMB (which you cannot safely do while hugging each other the way you must to share air on rec gear) and head for the surface. And since I always dive in tech gear, I had two 100CF tanks instead of 1. On a recreational dive, I will generally have 2400-2500 PSI left after the first dive, so there was no need to even skip the safety stop.

I was kidding, and I hope you are too. If you're not cave trained, please do not ever go into a cave. There is a reason caves that are regularly used by divers have signs like these:
View attachment 29366 View attachment 29367 View attachment 29368

I have never passed out drunk, I have only been (mildly) drunk once in my life, and no responsible dive shop should allow people to dive if they have been drinking. So I am safe from this prank, at least.
It was scary. Everything you wrote here is true to case. We had air on descent. He said he suddenly could not get any air. This was 35 years ago so my memory is a little faded. There were 5 of us. I think we maybe had about 12 minutes of bottom time for the dive. It happened as we got to the wrecked boat. As you say, we were woefully unprepared for that emergency. I didnt mean a totally dark cave, more like a freeway size tunnel I can see the light through, and then only if you hold my hand. The toe prank was not a dive day. It was a rest/party day at the end of the trip. You could never be safe from my revenge prank, Im an Nth degree red/black/tie dye/yellow striped belted prank bandit.
 

Dirty Dog

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It was scary. Everything you wrote here is true to case. We had air on descent. He said he suddenly could not get any air. This was 35 years ago so my memory is a little faded. There were 5 of us. I think we maybe had about 12 minutes of bottom time for the dive.
The NDL (a term I hate, because every dive is a decompression dive, even without mandatory stops - No Stop Limit would be better) for a 120' dive is 13 minutes according to the PADI standards. In reality, if you're using a computer you will likely get a bit longer, because dives are rarely square. If the sand is 120', the upper surface of the boat will be less. So your memory seems pretty good.
It happened as we got to the wrecked boat. As you say, we were woefully unprepared for that emergency.
It's another rec/tech training difference. We routinely practice "oh crap" drills. For example, as soon as I start my descent, I do a valve drill, which tests all 3 tank valves and both regulators. If I'm not at the bottom when I'm done, I practice other drills. I push Sue & Kim to do them too. They practice more than most recreational divers, but until that young lady had a blow out, they thought I was worrying too much. That's actually a survival trait most tech divers share. We tend to be anal retentive when it comes to safety standards.
I didnt mean a totally dark cave, more like a freeway size tunnel I can see the light through, and then only if you hold my hand.
Oh, a swim through. Some of those are a gray area. I think if you can see the tunnel, end to end, and there are no restrictions (narrow spots) too tight for two divers to go through side by side, it's probably OK for open water divers. My reasoning is that if it's short enough to see all the way through, you won't get lost. If it's wide enough for two, you can share air and still swim out if that is necessary. One of the main reasons for the long hose in tech diving is that you often cannot do that, and you cannot share air with rec gear unless you're in hugging distance.

I'd have to know an OW diver pretty well before I'd be comfortable taking them through a "swim through" like the Devils Throat off Cozumel.
The toe prank was not a dive day. It was a rest/party day at the end of the trip.
That's different, but I still wouldn't ever be passed out...
You could never be safe from my revenge prank, Im an Nth degree red/black/tie dye/yellow striped belted prank bandit.
I'm going to have to be like Inspector Clouseau?
 

Wing Woo Gar

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The NDL (a term I hate, because every dive is a decompression dive, even without mandatory stops - No Stop Limit would be better) for a 120' dive is 13 minutes according to the PADI standards. In reality, if you're using a computer you will likely get a bit longer, because dives are rarely square. If the sand is 120', the upper surface of the boat will be less. So your memory seems pretty good.

It's another rec/tech training difference. We routinely practice "oh crap" drills. For example, as soon as I start my descent, I do a valve drill, which tests all 3 tank valves and both regulators. If I'm not at the bottom when I'm done, I practice other drills. I push Sue & Kim to do them too. They practice more than most recreational divers, but until that young lady had a blow out, they thought I was worrying too much. That's actually a survival trait most tech divers share. We tend to be anal retentive when it comes to safety standards.

Oh, a swim through. Some of those are a gray area. I think if you can see the tunnel, end to end, and there are no restrictions (narrow spots) too tight for two divers to go through side by side, it's probably OK for open water divers. My reasoning is that if it's short enough to see all the way through, you won't get lost. If it's wide enough for two, you can share air and still swim out if that is necessary. One of the main reasons for the long hose in tech diving is that you often cannot do that, and you cannot share air with rec gear unless you're in hugging distance.

I'd have to know an OW diver pretty well before I'd be comfortable taking them through a "swim through" like the Devils Throat off Cozumel.

That's different, but I still wouldn't ever be passed out...

I'm going to have to be like Inspector Clouseau?
Yes, I am a watered down Kato.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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The NDL (a term I hate, because every dive is a decompression dive, even without mandatory stops - No Stop Limit would be better) for a 120' dive is 13 minutes according to the PADI standards. In reality, if you're using a computer you will likely get a bit longer, because dives are rarely square. If the sand is 120', the upper surface of the boat will be less. So your memory seems pretty good.

It's another rec/tech training difference. We routinely practice "oh crap" drills. For example, as soon as I start my descent, I do a valve drill, which tests all 3 tank valves and both regulators. If I'm not at the bottom when I'm done, I practice other drills. I push Sue & Kim to do them too. They practice more than most recreational divers, but until that young lady had a blow out, they thought I was worrying too much. That's actually a survival trait most tech divers share. We tend to be anal retentive when it comes to safety standards.

Oh, a swim through. Some of those are a gray area. I think if you can see the tunnel, end to end, and there are no restrictions (narrow spots) too tight for two divers to go through side by side, it's probably OK for open water divers. My reasoning is that if it's short enough to see all the way through, you won't get lost. If it's wide enough for two, you can share air and still swim out if that is necessary. One of the main reasons for the long hose in tech diving is that you often cannot do that, and you cannot share air with rec gear unless you're in hugging distance.

I'd have to know an OW diver pretty well before I'd be comfortable taking them through a "swim through" like the Devils Throat off Cozumel.

That's different, but I still wouldn't ever be passed out...

I'm going to have to be like Inspector Clouseau?
You sleep sometimes though. Dont get me wrong Im not trying to find out how well your assassin kit works. :D
 

Dirty Dog

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You sleep sometimes though.
I do. Not underwater though. Although I have a cave diving buddy who does. We do our deco stops in places where you can get just a tiny bit positive and do the stop on the ceiling. I twiddle my thumbs and eat those chocolate covered Oreos. He sleeps.
Dont get me wrong Im not trying to find out how well your assassin kit works. :D
I only put it in that to go through the TSA. The rest of the time, the relevant bits of that kit are in a quick-access safe by my bed.
Something to keep in mind when you're planning your prank...
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I do. Not underwater though. Although I have a cave diving buddy who does. We do our deco stops in places where you can get just a tiny bit positive and do the stop on the ceiling. I twiddle my thumbs and eat those chocolate covered Oreos. He sleeps.

I only put it in that to go through the TSA. The rest of the time, the relevant bits of that kit are in a quick-access safe by my bed.
Something to keep in mind when you're planning your prank...
Sleeping underwater in a cave on scuba? That is definitely the first time I have heard of that. My scuba instructor was in his late 60s when he swam the 600 yards to our beach dive spot fast enough to beat us there and have time to smoke a cigarette while laying on his back in the kelp like a sea otter. Oh the dreaded kit was my very first concern when I began to plot which drapes to hide behind.
 

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Sleeping underwater in a cave on scuba? That is definitely the first time I have heard of that. My scuba instructor was in his late 60s when he swam the 600 yards to our beach dive spot fast enough to beat us there and have time to smoke a cigarette while laying on his back in the kelp like a sea otter. Oh the dreaded kit was my very first concern when I began to plot which drapes to hide behind.
I'm not entirely convinced he's really sleeping. He might just be relaxing with his eyes closed. The obvious concern is inhaling some water when your mouth relaxes. But the flange on a regulator is large enough that it shouldn't slip out without actively opening your mouth. But shouldn't isn't won't, and I'd need a lot of convincing before I could possibly relax that much. Heck, I'm an insomniac when drowning isn't a possibility...
 

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Do you find him pretentious? Im just messing around as usual. I dont have belts except the white one in BJJ. Im a rank beginner in BJJ and I dont train enough in it because of lack of time. Purple takes a long time from what I hear.

There is a level of acknowledgement that it is.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I'm not entirely convinced he's really sleeping. He might just be relaxing with his eyes closed. The obvious concern is inhaling some water when your mouth relaxes. But the flange on a regulator is large enough that it shouldn't slip out without actively opening your mouth. But shouldn't isn't won't, and I'd need a lot of convincing before I could possibly relax that much. Heck, I'm an insomniac when drowning isn't a possibility...
Great, now Im plotting to prank an insomniac/assassin. I often have bitten off more than I could chew, but
 

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How many years did it take to get where you are in BJJ? I realize you have other background in other MA. Also, I should ask if you have always trained at the same level of intensity as you do now?

15 years mabye. I was like a white belt for ten.

I live in a small rural town ,sort of. And there were not a lot of grading opportunities.

So the bulk of my training none of us ever bothered with grades. Including my coach.

I train at much less intensity than I used to.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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15 years mabye. I was like a white belt for ten.

I live in a small rural town ,sort of. And there were not a lot of grading opportunities.

So the bulk of my training none of us ever bothered with grades. Including my coach.

I train at much less intensity than I used to.
Same here for intensity. I still get it done but the main difference I notice is that I dont recover as quickly as I once did. I would like to think we get more efficient as we get older, but I am likely just rationalizing my age vs workout ability.
 

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Same here for intensity. I still get it done but the main difference I notice is that I dont recover as quickly as I once did. I would like to think we get more efficient as we get older, but I am likely just rationalizing my age vs workout ability.
I train with hard chargers. Some of them are legitimate amateur fighters at 20 something years old.

I have no illusions.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I train with hard chargers. Some of them are legitimate amateur fighters at 20 something years old.

I have no illusions.
I like that. I have a mix. I could use some more adversity in training these days. I get the exercise and the practice, but nothing beats a beating to put things in perspective.
 

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