What I learned after 4 months of punching the heavy bag

Kung Fu Wang

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Maybe someone can video tape some fights of themselves using moves from their forms so we can see. We might really learn something.
Form:

Han-groin-kick.gif


Fight:

zack-kick-punch.gif
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Within 15 seconds, he uses the same combo (form)

- right roundhouse kick.
- right side kick.
- left hook.
- right hook.
- bear hug.
- right knee.
- right outer hook.

It works twice back to back. It's a pre-arranged combo form.

 
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Kung Fu Wang

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In one of my forms Pu Han Dua Da, there is a combo as:

- groin kick.
- right jab.
- left cross.
- right hook.
- left hook.

that I like to use it a my starting attack. The combo can keep my opponent busy and put him in defense mode. That will be toward my advantage.
 

Alan0354

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Within 15 seconds, he uses the same combo (form)

- right roundhouse kick.
- right side kick.
- left hook.
- right hook.
- bear hug.
- right knee.
- right outer hook.

It works twice back to back. It's a pre-arranged combo form.

Show me in those forms that do those. That's typical MMA stuffs that don't do any forms. These are pretty much the way we learn in our kick boxing/TKD school( no grappling and knee at the time)
 

Dirty Dog

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Using put down language doesn't make your case. NO I NEVER SEEN FIGHT VIDEOS THAT USE A LOT OF MOVES FROM THE FORM.
You have. But you don't understand the forms, so you don't understand how they're used.
 

Alan0354

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In one of my forms Pu Han Dua Da, there is a combo as:

- groin kick.
- right jab.
- left cross.
- right hook.
- left hook.

that I like to use it a my starting attack. The combo can keep my opponent busy and put him in defense mode. That will be toward my advantage.
You have video of that form? You might actually have a form that is useful without all the long punch, big steps, horse stands, fancy arm whaling etc.
 

Alan0354

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You have. But you don't understand the forms, so you don't understand how they're used.
One video says 1000 words. I don't understand, show me what you have. Actually fight, not point sparring. Show me you use traditional TKD punch to fight. Using big horse stance to move around.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Show me in those forms that do those. That's typical MMA stuffs that don't do any forms. These are pretty much the way we learn in our kick boxing/TKD school( no grappling and knee at the time)
You said "form". You didn't say

- forms that you have learned (ancient form), or
- forms that you have created (modern form).

By definition, form is a pre-arranged sequence. It includes that you have learned from your MA teacher and also those that you have created yourself.
 

Dirty Dog

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One video says 1000 words. I don't understand, show me what you have. Actually fight, not point sparring.
You've already shown that you don't understand forms or how those movements apply to fighting. You've seen how many fights without making the connection? There's no reason to think making yet another video would help. There are already millions of videos out there showing movements from forms.
The problem isn't the forms, or the videos. The problem is your lack of understanding.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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One video says 1000 words. I don't understand, show me what you have. Actually fight, not point sparring. Show me you use traditional TKD punch to fight. Using big horse stance to move around.
I have shown you a video that someone used a pre-defined sequence (combo) and works twice within 15 seconds, but you said it's MMA stuff.

When both you and I have right leg forward. If I sweep your right leg, jam your leading arm, and punch your face. At that moment, I have put you in defense mode.

The combo

- foor sweep.
- leading arm jam.
- face punch.

can be an effective entering strategy.

So you create a form (or drill) that has those 3 moves. You then try to use it in the ring over and over until one day it becomes your "door guarding" skill.

To me, that's the purpose of form (drill) training.

 
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Alan0354

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You've already shown that you don't understand forms or how those movements apply to fighting. You've seen how many fights without making the connection? There's no reason to think making yet another video would help. There are already millions of videos out there showing movements from forms.
The problem isn't the forms, or the videos. The problem is your lack of understanding.
Yes, you are the expert, I don't understand. Why don't you make a video of your fight to enlighten me. Not point sparring, actually full contact. Use the TKD punch and kicks, and horse stand footwork to fight.
 

drop bear

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How many millions of people need to use forms to improve their skills before you will accept that it works?

Does it improve their skills though? or do millions of people just do forms.

There is no automatic requirement for martial arts practices to work.

Here is a quote about chiropractic methods. That millions of people use to get better.

"The fact that patients swear by us does not mean we are actually helping them. Satisfaction is not the same thing as effectiveness."

Chiropractor Preston Long, author of Chiropractic Fraud and Abuse: An Insider's Lament
 

Alan0354

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I have shown you a video that someone used a pre-defined sequence (combo) and works twice within 15 seconds, but you said it's MMA stuff.

When both you and I have right leg forward. If I sweep your right leg, jam your leading arm, and punch your face. At that moment, I have put you in defense mode.

The combo

- foor sweep.
- leading arm jam.
- face punch.

can be an effective entering strategy.

So you create a form (or drill) that has those 3 moves. You then try to use it in the ring over and over until one day it becomes your "door guarding" skill.

To me, that's the purpose of form (drill) training.

Is this show in the tradition form? Including the throw? I seems to remember all the forms you show are nothing like that, all long fist, big stand.
 

Alan0354

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Does it improve their skills though? or do millions of people just do forms.

There is no automatic requirement for martial arts practices to work.
This is going nowhere, that's why I want to see demonstration like using punching from below the shoulder, big step horse stance in TKD forms to actually fight.

Of cause you can use the kicks, BUT, punching below the shoulder where you tuck your elbow in, and walk around with that horse stance to move around? I have to see these used in a real fight. If not, why people spend the time on those? Just practice the kicks, forget the forms!!!

Time has moved on, I am surprised so many people still holding on to the yester-decades.

Maybe I don't know enough, that's why I want people to demonstrate with video, maybe I can learn something. Maybe you can learn something too!!!
 

Dirty Dog

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Yes, you are the expert, I don't understand. Why don't you make a video of your fight to enlighten me. Not point sparring, actually full contact. Use the TKD punch and kicks, and horse stand footwork to fight.
People have posted numerous videos in this very thread showing exactly what you're asking for, but you don't get it. The problem is not the forms, the problem is your lack of comprehension.
 

drop bear

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This is going nowhere, that's why I want to see demonstration like using punching from below the shoulder, big step horse stance in TKD forms to actually fight.

Of cause you can use the kicks, BUT, punching below the shoulder where you tuck your elbow in, and walk around with that horse stance to move around? I have to see these used in a real fight. If not, why people spend the time on those? Just practice the kicks, forget the forms!!!

Time has moved on, I am surprised so many people still holding on to the yester-decades.

Maybe I don't know enough, that's why I want people to demonstrate with video, maybe I can learn something. Maybe you can learn something too!!!

Yeah. The way people think about it is wrong . Which is the issue. And that becomes really hard to deal with because they think these things like millions of people do it. So it has to work. Is some sort of iron clad evidence.

It is like the marketing has taken over the product.
 

Alan0354

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People have posted numerous videos in this very thread showing exactly what you're asking for, but you don't get it. The problem is not the forms, the problem is your lack of comprehension.
You only know how to insult? Don't you want to show people how you do it?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Is this show in the tradition form? Including the throw? I seems to remember all the forms you show are nothing like that, all long fist, big stand.
When you were young, you learned tradition forms from your teacher. One day when you become a teacher, you start to create your own modern forms.

1000 years from today, your modern forms will become tradition forms.
 

Alan0354

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Yeah. The way people think about it is wrong . Which is the issue. And that becomes really hard to deal with because they think these things like millions of people do it. So it has to work. Is some sort of iron clad evidence.

It is like the marketing has taken over the product.
I think it's blind loyalty to tradition. I cannot believe it's been almost 50 years they got their behind handed to them and we still debate this. Funny after Bruce Lee died, so many of those so called "masters" came out and said they could beat Lee. They just totally avoid talking about MMA.
 

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