What I learned after 4 months of punching the heavy bag

Dirty Dog

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When you kick, if your

- kick land on your opponent's body, you want your kicking power to go deeply into his body.
- opponent catches your kicking leg, you want to shift weight on your leading leg so it can be hard for him to hold on your leg.
- opponent steps back, you want to land your kicking foot forward to gain the distance.

I can find 3 reasons not to retract the kick. What's the reason to retract the kick?
How about because you don't want to take a step forward.
 

Alan0354

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Thanks guys for the comments. I am starting over in slow and light movement concentrating on body, keep my elbows in to punch. I particularly working on pivot when doing front kick, that I am not getting use to.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Thanks guys for the comments. I am starting over in slow and light movement concentrating on body, keep my elbows in to punch. I particularly working on pivot when doing front kick, that I am not getting use to.
It's also a good idea to use the heavy bay to train "3 stars" to tough your arms.

 

Alan0354

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It's also a good idea to use the heavy bay to train "3 stars" to tough your arms.

I regularly practice hitting the pole. I use my fiber filled nylon cane to hit my forearm on both sides. Here is a video I practice hitting the pole, that's what I do twice a week for years.

I just do not have the forearm practice in the video. I think it's very important to toughen the bones and joints. I don't believe that I have to break my knuckles if I hit the forehead of the opponent. I believe I can train my knuckles strong enough to hold up.
 
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drop bear

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I regularly practice hitting the pole. I use my fiber filled nylon cane to hit my forearm on both sides. Here is a video I practice hitting the pole, that's what I do twice a week for years.

I just do not have the forearm practice in the video. I think it's very important to toughen the bones and joints. I don't believe that I have to break my knuckles if I hit the forehead of the opponent. I believe I can train my knuckles strong enough to hold up.

You are also punching differently than you do on the bag.
 

Alan0354

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You are also punching differently than you do on the bag.
Punching pole is just to strengthen the knuckles, really different from punching bag. It's like I use a cane to hit my forearms, it's for strengthening the bones.
 

drop bear

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Punching pole is just to strengthen the knuckles, really different from punching bag. It's like I use a cane to hit my forearms, it's for strengthening the bones.

Yeah. You should be punching the bag more like you hit that pole.

 

Alan0354

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Yeah. You should be punching the bag more like you hit that pole.

I don't understand why, the pole doesn't give at all, if you punch like hitting bag, say upper cut, it's going to scratch the skin instead. Also depending on the angle, you can land on the second knuckle which is not the main contact point of the punch. Human body and even heavy bag, they give and the big knuckle will be the main penetrating point.

To me, punching the pole is just to strengthen the knuckles. You can see I punch half with the big two knuckles and the other half with the last two knuckles commonly use in Wing Chung. I train 2 knuckles at a time.

As for strengthening the skin, nothing is better than a heavy canvas bag that is rough. That's why even though the leather bag last longer, I much rather have a very rough canvas bag.
 

drop bear

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I don't understand why, the pole doesn't give at all, if you punch like hitting bag, say upper cut, it's going to scratch the skin instead. Also depending on the angle, you can land on the second knuckle which is not the main contact point of the punch. Human body and even heavy bag, they give and the big knuckle will be the main penetrating point.

To me, punching the pole is just to strengthen the knuckles. You can see I punch half with the big two knuckles and the other half with the last two knuckles commonly use in Wing Chung. I train 2 knuckles at a time.

As for strengthening the skin, nothing is better than a heavy canvas bag that is rough. That's why even though the leather bag last longer, I much rather have a very rough canvas bag.

Because you want to punch the bag with a penetrative snap. Not a push.

You were trying to achieve the effect that other guy had on his video.


So here you are pushing the bag. Which is why it doesn't react the way you want.

Here you are no longer pushing. Because the surface is hard and you would hurt yourself.

 
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drop bear

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And by the way. For all you bare knuckle fiends out there. Get a water filled bag. Which kind of splits the difference between a heavy bag and a pole.


 

Alan0354

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Because you want to punch the bag with a penetrative snap. Not a push.

You were trying to achieve the effect that other guy had on his video.


So here you are pushing the bag. Which is why it doesn't react the way you want.

Here you are no longer pushing. Because the surface is hard and you would hurt yourself.

I think the reason in my video that the bag jump more is because I punch above my forehead(punching above the silver duck tape band of the white bag) and also combining with kicking that push the bag. Also, I punch a little deeper into the bag instead of not trying to penetrate into the pole for very obvious reason!!! If I only punch to shoulder level like most of the videos, it will look a lot better. I even explained I intentionally punch into the silver duck tape(my shoulder level) at the very beginning and very end of the video to show the bag behave very different. Punching high, I cannot achieve straight in and out.

I am not saying I punch good, I explained in the post that I punch high to simulate fighting with a tall guy as I am only 5'5". Also the white bag is only 70lbs, not 100+lbs that doesn't move as much. When I punch at the silver duck tape bag doesn't move nearly as much. In most videos, people punch at shoulder level or even lower. It is SO SO SO MUCH EASIER. Try it yourself and compare punching at shoulder level vs above your forehead, you'll see the difference on how the bag moves and how much harder to punch good at higher level.

Most of the people are taller than me, I don't think they realize how hard it is to punch higher. If I have to punch to the face of the taller guy, I have to punch above my forehead level, that's the way I practice for the better or worst, this is life for me as a short guy.

Also, I think the heavy bag makes a big difference. Some bags, even though it is stiffer, it does give and you can penetrate more. Those Everlast do NOT give, it's not like a rock, but the stuffing inside really doesn't give and cushion like those boxing bags. Particular towards the bottom, it's like rock. I did stuffed both bags a little at the top portion using the old stuffings I pulled from the old heavy bag I cracked. Like the while one is about to crack any time, I am going to save the bag and use the stuffings to stuff the top portion of the new bag. This not only make the new bag harder, it also make it last longer. If you don't stuff and punch at shoulder level, the bag will crack quite fast.
 
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Alan0354

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I forgot to mention one very important thing and the editing period is over. I am not trying to make excuses, it is just my conscious decision how I practice it.

Most of the videos in punching heavy bag not only punch lower at shoulder or even below level. Most only do jab then reverse punch. Always starting with the jab. This also is so so so much easier as you kind of wind up your body to turn for the reverse punch. It's like the jab set up the reverse punch to get good body rotation using the feet hip and shoulder. I put a lot of effort in making the first punch with reverse punch. That is if I lead with left side, my first punch is right hand instead of like most people that lead with the left jab to wind up for the right cross(reverse punch).

I try to get to 50:50 to make it harder to predict. In the tape, it must be 60:40, still more starting with jab. It is harder to get good body rotation when the first punch is reverse punch from the non-leading side and to cover the distance. I feel reverse punch hits harder than jab, so I want to be able to do that. Obviously, I still have work to do on that. Actually I am starting from ground scratch with slow motion to get more feet waist and shoulder into the punch. I do listen, it's important. From watching my own video, I can see what I need to improve also......Particularly on the front kick which is very important to me. I am really starting from the beginning, go slow, go light and try to put more hip and rotation.

Again, I am not trying to make excuses, but these are all conscious decisions: To punch high to the face of a taller guy, combining punching and kicking and start with the reverse punch instead of a jab.
 
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JowGaWolf

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It is harder to get good body rotation when the first punch is reverse punch from the non-leading side and to cover the distance. I feel reverse punch hits harder than jab, so I want to be able to do that.
I use my reverse punch like a jab and here's what I understand about my punch
- Good body rotation is determined by the stance. Squaring off with both shoulders facing the bag means that you are going to have very little rotation as you are standing at the end rotation position that a reverse punch finishes. Bladed stances put the reverse punch at the beginning rotation position.

- Power hand forward = devastating jabs.

- Punching at a vertical angle (punching someone's head, punching someone's stomach) shortens your punching ranging. Punching straight ahead shoulder's length will give you the maximum punching distance.

- Reverse punches have a longer distance to travel so it's naturally a slower punch

- Reverse punch is a short range punch when stationary.
To punch high to the face of a taller guy,
This is a vertical angled punch that will shorten your punching distance and forces you to be closer to your opponent than if you punch straight.

combining punching and kicking and start with the reverse punch instead of a jab.
Starting off with a reverse punch to the face = super short punch.

Not trying to talk you out of your punch strategy. I just wanted to highlight the realities that you'll be dealing with so that you can use them at the "best fit" situation.
 

Alan0354

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I use my reverse punch like a jab and here's what I understand about my punch
- Good body rotation is determined by the stance. Squaring off with both shoulders facing the bag means that you are going to have very little rotation as you are standing at the end rotation position that a reverse punch finishes. Bladed stances put the reverse punch at the beginning rotation position.

- Power hand forward = devastating jabs.

- Punching at a vertical angle (punching someone's head, punching someone's stomach) shortens your punching ranging. Punching straight ahead shoulder's length will give you the maximum punching distance.

- Reverse punches have a longer distance to travel so it's naturally a slower punch

- Reverse punch is a short range punch when stationary.

This is a vertical angled punch that will shorten your punching distance and forces you to be closer to your opponent than if you punch straight.


Starting off with a reverse punch to the face = super short punch.

Not trying to talk you out of your punch strategy. I just wanted to highlight the realities that you'll be dealing with so that you can use them at the "best fit" situation.
I am experimenting, I am open for suggestion and I spent today on the advice I got.

I want more suggestion on front kicks. I practiced pivot, it helps. If anyone have video how to start practicing a good front kick, I am open to that. Believe me, I start going slow on punching and kicking like your video of punching slow. It's like I start from the very beginning.

This is what I am teaching my grand daughter. Just when you think you know it all. Stop and listen whether you like it or not. Think about it, worst is you don't learn anything. What if you learn something?!!!
 
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JowGaWolf

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It's like I start from the very beginning.
It's really not the beginning. When you get good at front kicks, you'll still practice this stuff.

This is what I am teaching my grand daughter. Just when you think you know it all. Stop and listen whether you like it or not. Think about it, worst is you don't learn anything. What if you learn something?!!!
Best life advice ever for everything, unfortunate it's one of the hardest things to accept. From time to time I still have to tell myself that.
 

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Most of the videos in punching heavy bag not only punch lower at shoulder or even below level. Most only do jab then reverse punch. Always starting with the jab. This also is so so so much easier as you kind of wind up your body to turn for the reverse punch. It's like the jab set up the reverse punch to get good body rotation using the feet hip and shoulder. I put a lot of effort in making the first punch with reverse punch. That is if I lead with left side, my first punch is right hand instead of like most people that lead with the left jab to wind up for the right cross(reverse punch).
I just wanted to point out that some systems use a wider variety of punches than others. From what I understand of boxing, for example, is uses a limited arsenal of punching techniques, to great effect. Kung fu systems like Tibetan crane use a lot more punching techniques, striking with all parts of the fist. This includes straight punches that strike with the front of the knuckles, as well as various swinging punches that land with the forward knuckles, the back knuckles, the top of the fist, and bottom of the fist. Other open-handed techniques such as knife-hand, ridge-hand, claw-hand and beak-hand/fingertip techniques are found in many of the Asian systems. All of these techniques can be trained on the heavy bag and can become surprisingly, sometimes even shockingly, powerful.

Your personal arsenal will consist of those techniques you have learned. If your arsenal is more limited, it can still be very effective, and rule sets and the use of gloves and wraps limit what is able to be used in sports applications like boxing. Those skills can still apply very well in self-defense. The options available in other systems create further possibilities. You dont need to be restricted to jab and cross/reverse punch.
 
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JowGaWolf

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You dont need to be restricted to jab and cross/reverse punch.
I might be wrong but I think in an early post he stated that he wanted to use the basics. I could be confusing discussions but for some reason, I'm thinking that he wanted to use the basic strikes since that's what most people revert to. Alan please correct me if I'm confusing you with a statement that someone else made.
 

Flying Crane

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I might be wrong but I think in an early post he stated that he wanted to use the basics. I could be confusing discussions but for some reason, I'm thinking that he wanted to use the basic strikes since that's what most people revert to. Alan please correct me if I'm confusing you with a statement that someone else made.
Ok, if he said that, I missed it.

But then, what do you consider basics? Many of the punches I described above are considered basic and fundamental to how our system works. Pau choi and baht gim and chou choi are basics for us, but may be considered unusual by others. We have a wide enough variety that people can choose to focus on certain techniques and not on others, based on what they are interested in and what they feel works well for them.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Always starting with the jab.
You can also start with a cross (I'm talking about training and not fighting). When your cross can stretch your body to the maximum (compress), you then let your body to retract and send out your powerful jab (release).

This is one of the Baji system basic power generation drills.
 

Alan0354

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It's really not the beginning. When you get good at front kicks, you'll still practice this stuff.


Best life advice ever for everything, unfortunate it's one of the hardest things to accept. From time to time I still have to tell myself that.
ha ha, nobody said it's easy. I can tell you when I read criticism, I had to walk away from the computer, do some other things, calm down before I think more about it. That's human weakness. But I try very hard to look at it objectively to calm myself down. Then just try it anyway.

I keep going back to your short video of punching the little object slowly, I actually started my workout going slow for the first few minutes and observe. I was surprised I lost so much throughout the years. I did that before, it's like " How can I lost so much of this?!!!". I did!!! So start from ground scratch. Of cause I got it back much faster than someone just started.

This is what I am working on my front kick now, very relax, concentrate on the pivot of the non kicking leg, pay attention to make sure my hip rotate with the kick.

I am also working on the punching also from the input here. I am slow compare to the young guys, yes, I don't turn shoulder enough, it's about +/-30deg only. But I kept watching my own video, I don't think my punching have anything to laugh at. It can be better, but also can be worst.

Grand daughter is staying with us, so I am taking a week off from training. For now, I only doing jaw exercise(say typing exercise) this week!!! :))
 

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