What I learned after 4 months of punching the heavy bag

Dirty Dog

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I can only speak for TKD,
You can't do that, either.
we don't kick like that at all.
Yes, we do.
This really close to the push kick to me. We kick with the ball of the foot and really kick out. In TKD, the kick that combine push is side kick. BUT side kick involves pivot of the hip to generate power.
So does the front kick.
That's why it's about the most power kick in TKD. It's hard to pivot in front kick, it just doesn't have the power.
It's hard? Maybe for you. Because people are different. A rear leg front kick should absolutely involve rotation.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Thanks Tony

I really have to work on the elbow. I think one of my problem is I try to punch 7 to 8 punches. That not only make it harder to use the body, it really slow me down. Like the guy only punch 2, max 3. I find it easier to use body and increase speed because I only need to turn the body forward and reverse once. It's when I have to turn back and fore multiple times that make it slow and harder. I wonder whether it is useful to punch many punches at one time.

Another thing I find very hard is the front kick. I find it's the hardest kick to master. A lot of people ending up pushing the bag rather kicking the bag. It should really be like a punch that snap in and penetrate, not a pushing motion. Still long ways off for me.

Thanks
3 punches that use the body for power and don't telegraph is much better than using 7 punches that telegraph and only use the arms. I'd recommend practicing that more. And as time goes on you'll be able to throw more than 3 punches that use the body, and get your punches faster, and as a side bonus improve your cardio more quickly.
 
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JowGaWolf

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There's factor of penetration. It's when it penetrates the bag, but not pushing the bag that is better. It's like the target absorbs all the force, but not being pushed backwards.
It depends on the type of front kick that you are doing. All of the front kicks should penetrate even if it's a push. If the push doesn't penetrate then the person will end up pushing themselves away from the person. I won't go into the details of it because it goes into the stuff that you care for. Sort of like punching straight in and straight back on a heavy bag. Lost of technical stuff the more you dig into it. But in general a kick that pushes has it's place.


I try to kick to the solarplex of a tall guy, It's hard to stick it in when I am short because as I kick higher, the angle become steep to the body and a lot of time, the ball of the foot just slide up the bag instead of penetrating. That's really my biggest issue.
There are advantages when you are smaller than someone and I think that's where you should focus your training. Your training should be based your current flexibility and height. For me personally, I would never try to kick the solarplex of a guy that is significantly taller. This will actually put you in a range that is not beneficial to your well being in a fight.

You should have 2 separate fighting strategies. One based on people who are the same height as you and a different one for people who are significantly taller than you. The other thing that you will have to come in terms with is to accept that you have to train the small stuff, like making sure strikes go directly into the target and come directly out. No swipes, unless a technique "shaves" (grinds) the target that you are striking. I know you don't like to focus on things like that, but you have come to a point where you'll need to.
 
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JowGaWolf

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I can find 3 reasons not to retract the kick. What's the reason to retract the kick?
Reasons for retracting the kick.
1. Kicking while retreating or going back
2. Kicking off center the center line. I have a front kick that is done by stepping off my opponent's center line. This requires that I bring my foot back to regain the stance.
3. When doing front kick, don't leave your leg there for your opponent to grab. There are times to step through and times where you should reclaim your leg. The higher your front kick is, the less practical it becomes to "step forward."
 
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JowGaWolf

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I practice the WC step kick to the knee. I've seen people use this in MMA. Very effective. I just did not do that in the video as the thread is about punching.
The kick that Kung Fu Wang is talking about is different. He's talking about a front kick that is more like what you showed in the video.
There are different ways to exit a front kick.

1. You can bring your leg back (retract it)
2. You can step forward
3. You can let it hang
 

Alan0354

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You can't do that, either.

Yes, we do.

So does the front kick.

It's hard? Maybe for you. Because people are different. A rear leg front kick should absolutely involve rotation.
You have different TKD than we have.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I try to punch 7 to 8 punches. That not only make it harder to use the body, it really slow me down.
For

- power, your body pushes your arm.
- speed, your body chases your arm.

The power training is different from the speed training.

One time my shopping cart was sliding away in the parking lot. My hand went first to reach my cart, my arm followed, my body followed after my arm.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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3. You can let it hang
When your opponent catches your kicking leg, it's not the end of the world.

This can be a bait to invite your opponent to catch your leg. When he does that, you can

- shift all your weight onto your leading leg.
- use both hands to control his head.
- raise your back leg off the ground horizontally (this will make your gravity center to be away from your opponent).

This will make your opponent very difficult to hold on your leg. The moment your opponent drops your leg. The moment you take him down.

leg-sticky.gif


Sometime you just want to give your leg to your opponent so you can change a striking game into a wrestling game.

my-upper-leg-bite.gif
 
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drop bear

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Anyone has comment on how I should improve my bag work? This is the first time I even record my workout. The first thing I notice is I move my right hand before I punch out, I need to stop doing that, it's like telling people my punch is coming. If you see anything I should work on, let me know.

I was looking for videos on bag work, this guy is really good, talk about speed and power.

Don't think I can even come close to this guy in this life, maybe next. When he punches, the bag hardly move, all the power goes into the bag, no waste energy in pushing the bag. The speed!!!!

Only thing is he still punching low, barely at shoulder level. It's so much easier to punch good at that level. Punching above the forehead is a completely different animal all together.

Ok. There is a strange dichotomy when it comes to punching. So you get told to punch through the target. But what happens is you wind up spending too much time with your hand contacting the target. And you push the bag rather than strike it.

And then it isnt as hard and it is more exhausting.

So quite often less is more. You still punch through. But you also don't.

Which then gets that nice crisp impact you are looking for.
 

drop bear

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I practice the WC step kick to the knee. I've seen people use this in MMA. Very effective. I just did not do that in the video as the thread is about punching. Also, I spend more time working on front kick.

I did practice kicking with heel, like Tony said, it can penetrate good. My issue is like I said, I am only 5'5", I lose like 2" of reach using the heel. I need every little bit of reach. BUT, as I am typing, something comes to mind. If I can stretch more and kick higher, I might still get the height using the heel to kick.

Problem of kicking with the ball of the foot in TKD is if I kick too high on the bag, the angle of the kick is so high that the ball of the foot easily slide up the bag instead of penetrating the bag. Kicking with the heel should not have that problem. I have to try again using the heel, just need to stretch more!! :((

Flare your toes outward.
 

drop bear

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Some people like to use snapping kicks almost like a boxer's jab, snapping it out and back to chamber ready to snap out again.

In my WC, we say,"every kick a step, every step a kick" and do not retract our kicks like that. But what you really don't want to do is leave a kick hanging out there in space.

But does anybody ...at least anybody with experience, do that?

I take that snap idea to the next level with the stabby toe teep. And it genuinely hurts people.

It has a few cool tricks to it that I will explain when I have more time
 

Kung Fu Wang

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gets that nice crisp impact ...
When you throw hook, uppercut, overhand, hammer fist, hay-maker, ..., you don't pull your punch back fast. Why do you need to pull your punch back fast in jab and cross? The only reason that I can see is the jab-jab-cross that you use 2 fake jabs to set up a real cross. But when you throw that cross, you want to knock down your opponent. You don't need to pull your cross back fast.

You punch, your opponent blocks, you pull his blocking arm, and open him up, your other hand then punch through that opening. In order for you to pull your opponet's arm, you will need time to do that. A fast pulling back won't be able to do that job.

I can see the value to train the "knock down cross" on heavy bag. I just can't see the value to train the "fake jab" on heavy bag.

To train fast fake jab, I will use speed ball instead.
 
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Dirty Dog

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You have different TKD than we have.
I think the problem is you don't have enough training or experience. Because you make some very incorrect statements about some very basic things.
 

Alan0354

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I think the problem is you don't have enough training or experience. Because you make some very incorrect statements about some very basic things.
Been there for 3 years, at the time, we concentrate on front leg kicks, not from the back leg. It was Bruce Lee influenced that using the lead leg to kick. It's harder to pivot.
 

Dirty Dog

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Been there for 3 years, at the time, we concentrate on front leg kicks, not from the back leg. It was Bruce Lee influenced that using the lead leg to kick. It's harder to pivot.
Like I said, not enough training or experience. 3 years is a mid-level colored belt. Certainly not someone who can "speak for TKD".
 

Wing Woo Gar

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When you kick, if your

- kick land on your opponent's body, you want your kicking power to go deeply into his body.
- opponent catches your kicking leg, you want to shift weight on your leading leg so it can be hard for him to hold on your leg.
- opponent steps back, you want to land your kicking foot forward to gain the distance.

I can find 3 reasons not to retract the kick. What's the reason to retract the kick?
The main reason to retract the kick is Newtons third law
 

drop bear

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When you throw hook, uppercut, overhand, hammer fist, hay-maker, ..., you don't pull your punch back fast. Why do you need to pull your punch back fast in jab and cross? The only reason that I can see is the jab-jab-cross that you use 2 fake jabs to set up a real cross. But when you throw that cross, you want to knock down your opponent. You don't need to pull your cross back fast.

You punch, your opponent blocks, you pull his blocking arm, and open him up, your other hand then punch through that opening. In order for you to pull your opponet's arm, you will need time to do that. A fast pulling back won't be able to do that job.

I can see the value to train the "knock down cross" on heavy bag. I just can't see the value to train the "fake jab" on heavy bag.

To train fast fake jab, I will use speed ball instead.

I use the Dutch trap a lot less than I use the cover after a jab cross.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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Some people like to use snapping kicks almost like a boxer's jab, snapping it out and back to chamber ready to snap out again.

In my WC, we say,"every kick a step, every step a kick" and do not retract our kicks like that. But what you really don't want to do is leave a kick hanging out there in space.

But does anybody ...at least anybody with experience, do that?
I might do it to bait the grab, Im sure we can think of infinite reasons and circumstances where any, and every different motion could be applicable. Even the obviously incorrect technique can be applicable, as in All war is deception.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Been there for 3 years, at the time, we concentrate on front leg kicks, not from the back leg. It was Bruce Lee influenced that using the lead leg to kick. It's harder to pivot.
If you train "jab, cross" combo, should you also train "front kick, back kick" combo?

When you throw a front kick, if your opponent switches sides, your back roundhouse kick can get to his belly nicely.
 
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