What exactly are "Master Keys"?

[Goldendragon7]

I am confused as to some posts on Master Keys.

Some say "targets" are Master keys, some say certain techniques are, some say a neutral bow is,
I'm lost!

Just what are these things?

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I studied Shotokan for a couple years in college. They have the concept of Master Keys...

Master keys can exist at many levels. At the most elemental level, a stance such as the Neutral Bow is a Master key. You can transition easily from a neutral bow to any other stance and then back again to a neutral bow. Many techniques and basics start or end in this stance.

On a slightly higher level, a basic such as a front snap kick or reverse punch is a master key. The elements of these movements cocking/chambering, extinding with proper rotation and alignment, recoiling upon completion combine to form a master key.

In Shotokan, Kanku Dai Kata is considered a master key. The techniques in this Kata form the basis of all other Kata techniques in Shotokan. All other Katas and techniques are related to those in Kanku Dai. I think the close parallel in Kenpo would be some of the movements in Yellow, Orange and Purple belt techniques that are repeated or modified in more advanced Kenpo techniques.

 

[dcence]

Well, heck, if you are confused, what hope have we then?

I am sure you have your arms around this, but are asking a rhetorical question for discussion's sake. I am going to insert below something I wrote on the KenpoNet a few days ago and ask for your (and anyone else's) comments in furtherance of the discussion. Because I think the term master key is used where it is not meant to apply by the kenpo community, especially in regards to "master key techniques".

So here is what I wrote, and would appreciate any comments:

________________________

From one perspective, to name any technique a "master key" is missing the point. I have seen lists of what people consider THE "master key techniques". This, to me, artificially limits the concept. A master key is simply a move or sequence of moves that can be used in more than one way. Shouldn't this describe everything we do in Kenpo? Can't you use an "upward block" for multiple purposes? A block, a strike, an arm break.... Does this make the upward block THE master key block? No, because you can say the same of any block.

Surely, Five Swords can be used in multiple ways, and thus can be a master key technique. However, if you cannot apply any technique to more than one situation, then you haven't looked hard enough. So in that regard, all techniques can be master key.

To me the 'master key' concept is less about the technique or move, and more about the practitioner's understanding and perception of it and whether he can see how the technique can provide multiple solutions to different circumstances.

I think about my office key that opens everybody's door in our office building. Not everybody's key is like that. I have the master key. (Evil laugh here --MMMUUUAAAHHHHaAAAHHHAAA). But seriously if you can use Alternating Maces in multiple scenarios (such as right punch or push, left punch or push, left or right kick...) shouldn't that be called a master key?

With that said, I do believe there are "root" Kenpo techniques back to which you can trace all the other techniques in the curriculum as variations. Let's take Attacking Mace, which is "root" to the extent that it is the progenitor of the family group that includes Dance of Death, Thundering Hammers, Sleeper, Flashing Wings, Circling the Storm. In other words, the "root" technique is the first one taught of a family group in the system. In the same way, Delayed Sword would be the root technique of the family group that might include Alternating Maces, Five Swords, Calming the storm, etc. Sword and Hammer would be a root of a family including Obscure Sword, Obscure Wing, Obscure Claws, Falcons of Force, Snakes of Wisdom, etc. It is obviously better to start with a root technique that is less sophisticated, and then build upon it. (What I call "root" might be called "master key" by others.)

Related to Master Keys and Family Groups, yet different from them, is the topic of Associated Moves. This is where you can find the same or similar moves from one technique in another. Take the striking sequences in Thundering Hammers and Flashing Wings. They are very similar and associated. Not only are these techniques in the same family group (same father, different mother) but their strikes contain very similar patterns and methods of execution, though the angles of execution and weaponry and targets are different. Therefore, they use associated moves. They are related (family group) and associated (common patterns in the technique).

Similar to family groups where you have root techniquues, within associated moves you have core techniques that first introduce the common pattern, concept or principle.

That is the way I teach a new technique; I review with the student one he already knows from the same family group or one with associated moves to give him a point of reference and then I show him a variation of it which becomes the new technique I want him to learn.

At some point, honestly, the boundaries disappear and you should be able to show how any one move or sequence of moves is associated or related to any other in the system.

Just random thoughts on this topic.

_____________________________

Well, that is what I wrote. I would look forward to any comments.


Derek

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by dcence
Well, heck, if you are confused, what hope have we then? Derek

Now that is funny! I know your sources and you are not hurting for info.....lol.

Kidding aside, I'm confused as to how this term is misused so much.

I just had another conversation with someone telling me that the Master Key unlocks all doors.

I responded well..... No, that is not exactly true, a 'Regular Key' only opens one door that has a lock keyed to it, yet the "Master Key" unlocks all the doors in a specific group.

So, that leads us to "being specific" on exactly what "groups, such as: Basics, Forms, Sets, Self Defense Techniques, drills, maneuvers, etc., or whatever group we are talking about, then examining the specific Keys (if any) that are related.

Due to your instruction Derek, you have a good grasp of the "Master Keys" and it seems now you are moving deeper into them.n (good post, btw)

OFK also eludes to this but a bit vague on specifics.

We need to define the "Building" or "Floor" where the doors are, then talk about the Master Keys, for this area.

You know... the Apples with Apples theory. I think that is where the confusion lies.

My thoughts anyways........
:asian:

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Now that is funny! I know your sources and you are not hurting for info.....lol.

Kidding aside, I'm confused as to how this term is misused so much.

I just had another conversation with someone telling me that the Master Key unlocks all doors.

I responded well..... No, that is not exactly true, a 'Regular Key' only opens one door that has a lock keyed to it, yet the "Master Key" unlocks all the doors in a specific group.

So, that leads us to "being specific" on exactly what "groups, such as: Basics, Forms, Sets, Self Defense Techniques, drills, maneuvers, etc., or whatever group we are talking about, then examining the specific Keys (if any) that are related.

Due to your instruction Derek, you have a good grasp of the "Master Keys" and it seems now you are moving deeper into them.n (good post, btw)

OFK also eludes to this but a bit vague on specifics.

We need to define the "Building" or "Floor" where the doors are, then talk about the Master Keys, for this area.

You know... the Apples with Apples theory. I think that is where the confusion lies.

My thoughts anyways........
:asian:

Ok, Ed parker devised some "universaly true but abstract" concepts he called the eight considerations. You contend these concepts are not master key concepts but "they are what they are". you go so far as to say That I (or we for that matter) are missusing The concept of master keys. If you accept the idea that "Master keys are keys are those most fundamental ideas and movements that unlock all those doors to proficiency through simplicity", I think its more than fair to allow the eight considerations to be master keys. By the way Star Block is the master key set for you arms, stance set for your legs, finger set for your fingers, ect. But what do we know we're just bumping in to walls up here. You know whats really funny is that the book I get these defenitions from has a short but positive review by a guy named Dennis Conatser.(nothing about any lines to be sold on) Oh well.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Orig. posted by Touch'O'Death
Ok, Ed parker devised some "universaly true but abstract" concepts he called the eight considerations.

Yes, you are correct, originally termed the "8 Considerations" later re-termed to the Preparatory Considerations (of which there are 8), Infinite Insights Volume I, Chapter 11, pages 101-114.

Orig. posted by Touch'O'Death
You contend these concepts are not master key concepts but "they are what they are".

Right, <<they are>> 8 "Considerations" to study in order to possibly prevent yourself from danger. A major Kenpo Tool but not what I would consider a Master Key.

Orig. posted by Touch'O'Death
You then go so far as to say That I (or we for that matter) are misusing The concept of master keys.

I made no such statement, however, I did disagree with your usage of Master Keys in terms of the topic of that specific post, let's quote specific please.

Orig. posted by Touch'O'Death
If you accept the idea that "Master keys are keys are those most fundamental ideas and movements that unlock all those doors to proficiency through simplicity", I think its more than fair to allow the eight considerations to be master keys.

Well, show me where I did or accepted that, because I don't recall ever posting my agreement with what you have stated.

Orig. posted by Touch'O'Death
By the way Star Block is the master key set for you arms, stance set for your legs, finger set for your fingers, ect. But what do we know we're just bumping in to walls up here.

It all depends on your perception and your definitions, doesn't it.

I hope you have padding on the walls, I wouldn't want to see you hurt yourself. You may try looking into some new drills or something.

:asian:

 

[dcence]

Let me add --

Mr. Parker defined master keys as single moves or series of moves that can be used in multiple situations. This describes everything I do in Kenpo, from a kick, to a punch, to a block, to each and every technique I have learned in the IKKA and AKKI. So to me "master key" is not a label you put on one thing to distinguish it from another, but is a way to look at things.

Your upward block is as much a master key as is your inward block to the extent each can be used in many situations. Let me share an experience.

When I was at BYU, I taught a Kenpo class for credit. One day a surprise guest shows up with video cameras in tow -- Ed Parker, coming back to his old haunts to film some stuff for his videos, Ed Parker Jr was holding the camera. I offered him the class, which he accepted. He proceeds to talk about the inward block of Delayed Sword. He starts talking about as a beginner you might get confused and accidentally step forward if the guy grabs you, not backward. In his comical way he acts likes a beginner and steps forward doing an inward block planting the fist next to the student's face a la Mace of Aggression, and he gets this big surprised look on his face like, "Well, what do you know?" I don't remember him mentioning "master keys" but the point was this little inward block Derek is teaching you has more to it than meets the eye.

The point is you can do the same thing with every part of kenpo -- basics, techniques.... you name it. So if everything can be "master key", is there anything that can be truly labelled THE "master key?" Hence, my hypothesis that 'master key" is a way of looking at and understanding things -- not the things themselves.

That is why I don't accept a list of 10 master key techniques.

And while my instructor has influenced my thinking in a great many ways I accept full responsibility for this approach as we are sometimes left to search out things ourselves.

Derek

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by dcence
While my instructor has influenced my thinking in a great many ways I accept full responsibility for this approach as we are sometimes left to search out things ourselves. Derek

Well, since you are taking responsibility, I guess I just have to kill the word "Master Keys" ... every move/key you have is a master!

What do you call everything else, Oh wait there is nothing else...:rofl:

:asian:

 

[kenmpoka]

[/B][/QUOTE]

In Shotokan, Kanku Dai Kata is considered a master key. The techniques in this Kata form the basis of all other Kata techniques in Shotokan. All other Katas and techniques are related to those in Kanku Dai.

Just a side note,

I have heard this statement over the years from few people who in turn have heard from few others. It is not quite true.

Kankai Dai, contains elements of the five "heian" kata. It is certainly not inclusive of all Shotokan techniques and strategies. Kanku Dai was simply Sensei Funakoshi's favorite form. He only brought over 15 kata from Okinawa. JKA (a group of Funakoshi's students), devised more_forms after the war based on existing traditional kata of Shuri-te, and Tomari-te. There is whole a lot more to Shotokan than Kanku-Dai. Today it is taught as a brown belt level kata in most schools that follow the JKA curriculum.

Just wanted to point this out.

Salute,

 

[Goldendragon7]

Orig post by kenmpoka

Kankai Dai, contains ...elements .."heian" kata, It is Shotokan...simply Sensei Funakoshi's form, JKA kata... Shuri-te, and Tomari-te,brown belt kata...curriculum.... Just wanted to point this out.Salute,
[/B][/QUOTE]

Geee Zeeee O Pete Eeeeeee!

Now you are gonna have to show me what I read! LOL

:asian:

 

[dcence]

Well, since you are taking responsibility, I guess I just have to kill the word "Master Keys" ... every move/key you have is a master!

What do you call everything else, Oh wait there is nothing else...

Ahh, you jest, but really ask what I think is the important question. While there might not be "master key' basics, or techniques as such, there are certainly a set of basics from which all other basics arise and a set of techniques to which all other techniques can be traced. I use other terms for those while some people may label them "master key" For example, the front knee kick is the core move of many kicks, i.e., front kick, side kick, roundhouse, etc. This is a root or core basic. The same as the inverted (uppercut) punch. From this simple basic, you can do practically any hand basic to the front from a horizontal punch, vertical punch, inward or outward elbow, palm heel thrust, any of your blocks, etc. This move is a core basic. Same with a back elbow -- think how many basics arise from a back elbow. I suppose those "core" basics could be called master key to the extent that they can serve many many purposes.

Same with techniques. Certainly, there are techniques that are key to kenpo. There are the family groups and the first techniques of those family groups are important and worthy of distinction. I call these root techniques, as they are those techniques from which all the other techniques of that family group originate. These might be properly called "master key" techniques in their own right.

Perhaps "master key" is a large category of which these core basics and root techniques are a subset.

Derek

 

[Touch Of Death]

Golden Dragon,
Why am I way off base and fed a line as it were, by feeling that individual considerations of the eight considerations are master key concepts.
I already mentioned that when dealing in missle attacks "targets "are the master key concept
Also, I'll add that when grappling "position" is the master key concept.
Obviously if you loose sight of the other seven considerations you could be in big trouble (which is why street grapplers occasionaly get a knife in the back).
You've told me I'm wrong which I will graciously accept (ha ha) once you tell me why. Before I go I'll add that creating distance, stabilizing your base, and minimizing your target zones is all about attacking and defending targets. (at least that is what I was fed)
Sean

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by dcence
Perhaps "master key" is a large category of which these core basics and root techniques are a subset. Derek

Yes, some good points to discuss!

:asian:

 

[KenpoIsIt]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7
I am confused as to some posts on Master Keys.

Some say "targets" are Master keys, some say certain techniques are, some say a neutral bow is,
I'm lost!

Just what are these things?

Hello Goldendragon7

You and I have privately e-mailed in the past about keeping information organized for just such a purpose. Here is a definition I am quite sure you already have.

Master Key Movements are defined as being a move or series of moves that can be used in more than one predicament with equal effect. For example a rear heel kick, shin scrape, and instep stomp can be used for a Full Nelson, Bear Hug with arms free or pinned, Rear Arm Lock, etc. Or, an arm break can be applied to a cross wrist grab, a lapel grab, or hair grab -- application of the arm break would remain constant, but the methods of controlling the wrist would vary. In comparison, Master Key Techniques entail the sequential arrangements of movements that can be applied to a number of predicaments. In the case of a Master Key Technique it is a single technique that may be used as a BASE MOVE. Other similar techniques may then be perceived as formulations of it.

In many ways they are like Family Groupings and Associated Moves; they are the result of an individual's further association of movements; they are the next logical step in the search for spontaneity. Remember, they are only one set of model groupings. The art of Master Key Techniques is to eventually be able to use any and all techniques as a BASE MOVE and to see how all other techniques are formulations of it. This should lead you to the next level of spontaneity.

Kenpoisit

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by dcence
Let me add --

Mr. Parker defined master keys as single moves or series of moves that can be used in multiple situations

So to me "master key" is not a label you put on one thing to distinguish it from another, but is a way to look at things.

I don't remember him mentioning "master keys" but the point was this little inward block Derek is teaching you has more to it than meets the eye.

The point is you can do the same thing with every part of kenpo -- basics, techniques.... you name it. So if everything can be "master key", is there anything that can be truly labelled THE "master key?" Hence, my hypothesis that 'master key" is a way of looking at and understanding things -- not the things themselves.
Derek

Mr. Ence-
Is this what is meant by sophisticated basics? That we can explore each movement to find multiple answers to varied questions? That's what I've taken it to mean I guess.

That last sentence of yours really clarified your position for me. I'd never realized that before, NOT the thing it's self but a way to view it.
Perpective changes everything.
Thanks Mr. Ence

Your Brother
John

 

[Goldendragon7]

Orig. posted by Brother John
Perpective changes everything.
Your Brother John

You can say that again!!

:asian:

 

[Touch Of Death]

Master keys are movements, concepts, theories, or principles. Thats four whole catagories; so, the defenitions offered so far have been limited to single catagories. Just an observation.