Good contact points, yes. But not nearly the be-all of control he suggested.
What else do you need byond your toolbox?
- Thread starter Kung Fu Wang
- Start date
jobo
Grandmaster
try it, I challenge you to find anyone who won't concentrate on getting your hand off when their eyes start popping and they are turning blue. The more they pull your hand away. The more pull there is on the Adams apple. It's like they are choking themselves
First, you have to get it there, past their awareness, blocking, and movement...and get an actual grip. Then you have to deal with the fact that many people can counter it with one hand (since you're only using one hand). Then you have to deal with the people savvy enough to counter it by ignoring it and striking. Then you have to deal with the people who will gladly use both arms, because you've provided a great connection where they can control your structure and balance.
jobo
Grandmaster
all whilst choking to death
OP
OP
How to deal with a "front throat double hands choke" was the 1st MA technique that I had learned when I was 5.
- Hold both hands into a big fist.
- Use forearm as a wedge to strike through the space between your opponent's arms from under and up.
- After you have separated his both arms throat choke, you use both hands to grab on top of his head.
- You then pull his head down and strike your knee into his groin.
- You and him then live happy ever after.
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He's not even talking about using 2 hands.
Ah, so your one-handed choke is invincible, is it?
jobo
Grandmaster
invincible is to strong a word,like all techniques' it relies on you having certain atributes, certainly a strong grip is a strict requirement, both to shut off the air supply and to resist them pulling it off. It isnt to squeeze the wind pipe rather to force your fingers round it so you have a large round object( Adams apple) in your hand. That makes it difficult to remove as you have a good degree of purchase. You only need to hang on for about 20 seconds before they start to pass out. So it then dependent on what both they and you are doing with you hands. Their life preserving instinct with be to use both hand to pull your hand off. If they instead manage to over ride that and say start punching you. Then it become a case of taking what they can throw till the lack of air takes , you of course have a free hand to throw you own punches, / block or whatever
Again, assuming you manage to sink the technique. Until that point, it's just a hand. After that point, it's a matter of whether they have better skill AND the ability to put it to use.
jobo
Grandmaster
is that not true of any and all techniques, I've used it to take out much bigger. Stronger opponents' than myself, its very much a leveler , Steve the marshal arts expert might have an answer to it. Bill the 18 stone body builder most probably will not. When you let go or someone breaks it up, they start calling you a phyco and saying you were trying to kill them, well yea, The throat is very much the main target in the animal kingdom, but an oft neglected one in human conflicts
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Agree the throat is under-utilized by some systems, and I was wondering who it was that you were using this technique on to such good effect. Every single grappling art I've even messed around with has a simple answer/solution to the simple, front one-hand choke, and they work fine, even for a 90-lb pound female against a 200-lb guy when applied. I grant you, the implied "correctly" should be understood to be after the word applied.
Which brings me to this question? Why are you picking on 18 stone bodybuilders? What did they ever do to you? You meanie.
To respond to Wang's O/P, for me what I'd say I need is fluidity and mental/coordination gility to switch between ... "games" for lack of a better term while on the fly and in the moment. Figure out that you have a striker coming in with super fast combos, flow into defensive positioning and grappling to close that down and some good infighting strikes once tied up maybe, or slip and take down mutually to be doing groundwork witht he stand-up person... but if you end up down there and find out that the dude was playing with you and he was secretely a BJJ black belt, having the ability to defend, get distance and get the heck back up and away from that rolling ball of steak knives....
Yes, tactical fluidity I think. Just add that to movement skills and I'm good with that toolbox.
Yes, tactical fluidity I think. Just add that to movement skills and I'm good with that toolbox.
OP
OP
Agree! The defense ability is also important such as how to
- block a punch,
- block a kick,
- defense a take down,
- defense a joint lock,
- defense in ground game,
- ...
For example, if your opponent sweeps your leg, all you need to do is to bend your leg and let the sweeping leg to go under it. If you then use the same escaping leg to sweep his attacking leg, you can reverse your defense into offense. This kind of defense and counter skill is not in your original toolbox.
Darren
Green Belt
Darren
Green Belt
you also have your natural weapons too, middle knuckle,elbows,fingers. when i first started thinking about it there are two hands and two feet, so only four things coming at you at any given time but then you have the forearms,knees,elbows,fingers,shins, and that can turn into multiple weapons.
windwalker099
Master Black Belt
For some it might be they feel something is missing. Not understanding what they have already..
This happened to me.
Not understanding the Tibetan White Crane, had what I was looking for.
Guess sometimes one needs to try something else, in order to understand what they already have.
In the late 1970s:
While walking around Camp Casey, Tongduchŏn, South Korea, about 40 miles (64 km) north of Seoul.
I noticed a group practicing martial arts. It caught my attention, as it looked like a Chinese style.
After speaking with the teacher, he mentioned it was Plum Flower Mantis and asked if I wanted to try my White Crane against his Mantis. I accepted, unaware that the person he had me spar with was one of his top students.
My first encounter with Mantis.
Very fast, closing the distance in a way I had not encountered before..
That meeting was with the man who would later become my teacher in a Northern Mantis system.
Looking back, it was mistake.
OP
OP
Why?
I learned speed training from the mantis system. Jump in the air, throw 3 punches before landing back down. No other MA systems has that training as far as I know.
IMO, a CMA person should train:
- long fist for foundation.
- Praying mantis for speed.
- Baji or Chen Taiji for power.
- Eagle claw for joint locking.
- Shuai Chiao for throwing.
windwalker099
Master Black Belt
When I trained, there was no separation between me and the method I practiced.
Adopting another system something I eventually did, meant having to rework everything I had previously developed. And I did.
Looking back, it might’ve been better for me to continue refining and testing what I already had, which I did quite a bit of at the time.
That’s also why, when people talk about cross-training, I sometimes wonder if they ever trained deeply enough in their original system to begin with. Not always, but often, that depth changes the conversation.
Everyone’s different.
Now, due to how I train today, it’s no longer possible for me to move the way I used to.
The strategy, the movement, even the focus it’s a different way entirely.
It’s odd: I could do things when I was younger that I can no longer do, nor need to.
I can do things now I couldn’t have done back then.
I like where I’m at now.
Are we assuming here you found one art that already teaches everything in your list, and you are wondering why they would cross-train despite that?
My ultimate answer is if I learned all that, I may not bother with cross training. I'd likely just continue that and trust in the process already created.
Three reasons: variations, experience, and opportunity.
Variations: Five different arts can have five different ways to do a tech, so even if you know how to do a roundhouse kick from karate, for instance, you may be better suited (or have times where it's better to use) the muay Thai version of a roundhouse. If you never cross train, you will never learn that.
Experience: If I don't cross train, most of my time will be spent fighting/sparring people in my style. Possibly even just my school. I need to do something to experience fighting against people from other disciplines, and cross-training is an easy solution to that.
Opportunity: Probably closer to lack of opportunity. If I can only attend class once a week at my main dojo, or I move, or the head instructor gets sick, I may have to cross-train in order to have the opportunity to train as much as I want under an instructor.
My ultimate answer is if I learned all that, I may not bother with cross training. I'd likely just continue that and trust in the process already created.
Three reasons: variations, experience, and opportunity.
Variations: Five different arts can have five different ways to do a tech, so even if you know how to do a roundhouse kick from karate, for instance, you may be better suited (or have times where it's better to use) the muay Thai version of a roundhouse. If you never cross train, you will never learn that.
Experience: If I don't cross train, most of my time will be spent fighting/sparring people in my style. Possibly even just my school. I need to do something to experience fighting against people from other disciplines, and cross-training is an easy solution to that.
Opportunity: Probably closer to lack of opportunity. If I can only attend class once a week at my main dojo, or I move, or the head instructor gets sick, I may have to cross-train in order to have the opportunity to train as much as I want under an instructor.
OP
OP
No matter how one may train his system deep enough, something missing in that system is still missing in that system.
Before I trained the praying mantis system, I had no idea what "speed" supposed to mean. After I have trained the
- PM system, I then understood that speed mean that my hands should move like a blur.
- SC system, I then understood that speed mean my eyeballs are going to fly out of my eye sockets.
I could spend 60 years in long fist training, I still won't be able to understand what "speed" means.
One day the praying mantis master Brendan Lai challenged me. He said if we both had right side forward, his right leading hand could hit my left back shoulder before my right leading arm could block it. He punched his right hand; my right leading arm blocked his right punch. He said, "You are pretty fast." After that day, I always asked my students to use this drill to test their speed.
- Both has right sides forward.
- Both has hands drop next to the knee.
- A tries to use right hand to punch on B's left back shoulder.
- B tries to use right arm to block that punch.
- repeat 10 times and record succeed/fail ratio.
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