What are the martial arts praticed on US Army?

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
Once again, there is no official martial art for the Army, no matter what a half million instructors across the US try to claim ("I was the head instructor for Fort XXX from XX to XX" - total crap claims by every one of them!)

Very good points. I didn't really get into explaining that, but that is important because a lot of people might not know this. What I mentioned earlier about the BJJ integration is just what they've been doing at Fort Benning withing the last couple years, as far as I know. It is true that there really isn't anything "official." When I say I have trained military people, I don't mean to imply that I was "an official instructor at **** base," or that I was some how contracted by the Government.

Now, my top secret missions for the CIA as special agent 007 is another story. Shhhhhhh.....keep that a secret between me and the hundreds of other MT members! :rofl:

Seriously though, I have just have had seperate units come to me for instruction before, is all.

 

[Matt Stone]

I have been in martial arts since 1985. Not long, I know. To misquote Chiun from Remo Williams, for a mountain I am just beginning, but for a cabbage I am really old.

I have been in the Army for 11 years now. Not that long compared to some, but longer than many.

I am also a strong advocate for identifying martial frauds and scam artists.

This all having been said, whenever you see some instructor, most often of a Korean or homemade style (no offense intended here, just facts, and notice I said "most often," leaving room for non-Korean styles), making claims of having been the Chief Instructor for (Martial Arts/Name of Style/Hand to Hand Combat Training/XXX Unit) on any particular post/base, it is flatly just so much crap.

The Army is not in a position to endorse any one particular art or instructor. Hell, we can't even be selective in our hiring process (we may want to hire one particular person for one particular job, but we can't - we must, by regulation, open that job for all to apply). So when some knucklehead starts talking about having been the Chief Instructor for Fort Bragg (home of the 82nd Airborne division and JFK Special Warfare Center - very popular for some folks to attempt to lend the "oooh" factor to their resume), or Fort Cambell (home of the 101st Air Assault/Airborne division, another high speed unit), or for any particular special operations unit (Special Forces "Green Berets," Rangers, SEALs, etc.), they are full of it.

They may have had a contract to teach martial arts on a particular post/base, and were likely the only instructor to teach that style at that time (they don't like to replicate services under contract - it wastes money), but they certainly were not given the title of Chief Instructor for XXX on that post/base.

Special Operations folks have really nice budgets, and so they contract for all sorts of people to come out and train their soldiers. They even give them all sorts of nice letters and awards to show their appreciation for what they did for their troops. Doesn't make them anything more than what they were - a resource that, at that time, that unit felt had something to offer.

Everybody is pretty much in agreement that the combatives methods taught to the Army back in the 60s were a complete joke. But, the Army felt that that guy had something to offer at the time (even though now we all feel what he gave the Army for the money was worse than crap, but something far, far more obscenely described). The Army makes mistakes sometimes, just like the rest of us.

So beware whenever you see someone touting his work for the Gubmunt as some kind of verification that he is special. I taught Yiliquan and Taijiquan at Fort Riley, KS from 1995 to 1997, I taught the same at Camp Zama, Japan from 1999 to 2002, and I am hammering out a contract to do the same here at Fort Lewis, WA, so I know what I am talking about.

And you will never hear me say that I was Chief Instructor of anything other than the class I was contracted to teach.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

What routinely happens is, some guys from the base would visit the dojang/dojo. After learning these guys background, they are offered free membership. The instructor would then boast to others that he is the INSTRUCTOR for MA at CAMP XYZ.

 

[Cruentus]

The army also doesn't have time to train combative martial arts like the movies would like you to believe. There are a lot of people out there who honestly believe that special ops are spending there days out in the jungle practicing secret hand-to-hand killing techniques, when that simply isn't the case. The real fact is that they only have time to spend a week (or two if they are lucky) every six months or so for close qaurter combat training. Most don't even train close quarter combat after basics anyways; it's only the elite that spend any time, or $$ on it at all.

The reason is that a. they have so much to learn and train, and a lot of it is technology related. And b. the situation where they will have to use close quarter combat skills most likely will not occur in todays modern warfare. Granted, a Green Beret is more likely to run into this situation then your ordinary non-airborn soldier, but even in that case the situation is still rare. Basically if your in the military and you find yourself in close quarter combat w/ the enemy, then someone screwed up royally. On todays battlefields, you should never be that close where you can't shoot the enemy....period. Like Yiliquan1 said, they have these things called guns .

This is just my civilian understanding of the situation, anyhow.

A side note....just because the likelihood of close-quarter-combat is small in todays warfare, that doesn't mean that our soldiers have it any easier, or deserve any less respect. I feel that they have it more difficult then I could even imagine, and actually need to be respected even more then people do. I don't know about you, but I'd rather be able to fight my enemy gun-to-gun, or hand-to-hand, then be sitting in a trench wondering is I'm going to get hit with a scud, or sprayed with chemicals. The later makes it even more difficult because there is sometimes little sense of control.

Yiliquan1:

I taught Yiliquan and Taijiquan at Fort Riley, KS from 1995 to 1997, I taught the same at Camp Zama, Japan from 1999 to 2002, and I am hammering out a contract to do the same here at Fort Lewis, WA, so I know what I am talking about.

That's pretty cool. I've never gotten anything as cool as a contract. I just had, on a couple of occassions, run into military guys who were temporarily stationed at sulfrage in Michigan who would go to the gym that I was teaching Filipino Martial Arts at. They saw what I did, got guys from their unit together, and we trained for a couple of weeks, on different occasions. One time was all knife, the other time was improvised weapons and empty hand. We had a really good time. Also, one of my best friends is airborn; special ops. Although inactive training with me at this time, he is also one of my students.

A couple of questions:
How do you go about hammering a contract with a base? As a civilian N.I.N.J.A. (LOL), what is the likelyhood of me being able to do the same? Also, how do you go about teaching your system(s) (Tai-Chi, and Yiliquan) to the soldiers? I'm asking because these are internal systems, so I'm wondering how you go about making them practical for these guys who may not have the time available to learn an internal system in a traditional manner.

Just some curious questions, and you seem have experience and to know what your talking about regarding the matter.

:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

Getting a contract is really a matter of two things - salesmanship and salesmanship.

If they let you in the door, you have them. Kinda like MA in that way... Once you are in the door, you know they have an inclination to enter into contract negotiations with you. My terms are simple - a place to train, some mats to fall on, some light so I can see what I am doing, and a very nominal fee...

At Fort Riley the students paid a whopping $20 a month for 2 1.5 hour classes a week. That averaged out to about 4 classes a month, a total of 12 hours a month, and a bank breaking $1.60 a class... Am I worth more? My family says so. Will I charge more? Not if I have anything to say about it.

At Camp Zama, I refused to have either a contract or a fee. The installation told me I couldn't teach then. I found a way around it, and continued to teach for free.

In Kansas I had about 20 students total. In Japan I had over 50. Could have made a good sum if I was a money-grubbing ethics-bender. When my Japanese students tried to insist that I take some money as compensation for my time, I told that that a) they were insulting me, and b) I would quit teaching rather than accept monetary gifts. I wanted them to train - that was my payment, and they paid me well...

How do we teach Yili to soldiers? The same way we teach it to civilians. While we are internal (I guess - I hate that label), the standing in a posture for decades route is not necessarily the best training method around. Read your history and you will see that as often as it was touted as a good training method, it was also exposed as a method by which teachers tried to alienate potential students and dissuade them from training. They wanted to test the students resolve as much as anything else. We hold postures, we do standing qigong, sure. But you can move along and learn a whole bunch of other stuff right along side of it... It all takes a while to get anyway, so the earlier you get to work on it the better, right?

If you ever get the chance to make it to Tacoma/Seattle or Omaha, I am sure we could hook you up with a tour/visit/training session so you can see how Yili does what it does. No worries, any time.

That offer goes to anybody, by the way.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by PAUL
Just some curious questions, and you seem have experience and to know what your talking about regarding the matter.

Well, bear in mind, I'm no authority... I'm just not an idiot, either.

 

[Cruentus]

Thanks!