Combat proven martial arts. What are the top real world effective arts?

[kip42]

I have trained in US Army Combatives, BJJ, Commando Krav Maga, and the Bujinkan. I am looking for a combat proven martial arts for winning an altercation. I am considering a move away from the Bujinkan system for the same reason that I moved away from Commando Krav Maga... the fact that its not proven to be real.

What styles have evolved through what worked in combat? I dont like competition based arts and want one that will end the fight with no rules.

 

[elder999]

I I dont like competition based arts and want one that will end the fight with no rules.

Kabumei, the art of the sharpened grenade.

[yt]q1qR85kb4wA[/yt]

:lfao:

 

[Bruno@MT]

Combat effectiveness... against what? Do you want to survive a zombie apocalypse? Then kenjutsu would be ideal.

In all seriousness, the question is not easy to answer.
Do you have to stay within the law or not? Against whom would you fight? etc...
Are weapons in the picture? If so, what type? Bladed, blunt, guns, poisons, ...

Without specific scenarios, the term 'combat effective' is really too open to answer.
If you assume serious life or death, than it would be pointless not to choose a weapons based art, as well as guns. If everyone is unarmed, then that is different again, but not something I'd describe as 'combat'.

 

[Big Don]

Kabumei, the art of the sharpened grenade.

[yt]q1qR85kb4wA[/yt]

:lfao:

Kinda hard on the laundry bill...

 

[Big Don]

What styles have evolved through what worked in combat?

BRM... Basic Rifle Marksmanship. Works like a charm.

 

[MJS]

I have trained in US Army Combatives, BJJ, Commando Krav Maga, and the Bujinkan. I am looking for a combat proven martial arts for winning an altercation. I am considering a move away from the Bujinkan system for the same reason that I moved away from Commando Krav Maga... the fact that its not proven to be real.

What styles have evolved through what worked in combat? I dont like competition based arts and want one that will end the fight with no rules.

So, you're looking for a list of martial arts that are effective and have been proven in a real life SD situation? Really, the list could be quite large. Keep in mind, that its not necessarily the art, but the person doing it, and how that person is training. CKM...well, there has been alot of negativity about that, so IMO, I'd steer clear. If you want Krav Maga, go to a legit school, altough some KM schools, can be iffy as well, depending on where you go.

I'm sure there are people out there who've successfully used Kenpo, BJJ, TKD, Kajukenbo, KM, and many others, with alot of success. My suggestion would be to determine what your goals are, which it seems that you've already done. Next, figure out what schools are in your area and what they offer. I'd visit and take a trial lesson at those that interest you. From there, pick one and start training.

I'm not going to do the leg work for you, and I doubt anyone else will either. However, if you gave us an idea of whats around, provided some links to schools, etc., I'd be happy to review and offer suggestions.

 

[K831]

Really, the list could be quite large. Keep in mind, that its not necessarily the art, but the person doing it, and how that person is training.

As usual, MJS gave you a great answer. Just to expand on it; there are arts that better fit "combat proven" then others, or rather, have better kept with there combat proven history by continuing to adapt. I prefer the "K" arts personally (Kenpo/Kajukenbo/Kali/Krav Maga) and typically encourage people to start there for real SD application.

But I agree with MJS.. it is more about the instructor and the way they teach, train and run the school than it is about the style. Certain styles and systems may give and instructor more to work with or a better foundation, but thats it. I am a big American Kenpo and FMA fan. I have been in Kenpo schools and FMA schools that I would NEVER recommend to anyone who wanted real life self defense training. Same with Kaju and Krav... there are crappy schools run by crappy instructors, so even though I would consider the art combat proven, I wouldn't recommended the school.

I'm not going to do the leg work for you, and I doubt anyone else will either. However, if you gave us an idea of whats around, provided some links to schools, etc., I'd be happy to review and offer suggestions.

Agreed. A lot of us can give you some good insight by looking over the website, what it says and how they market, watching videos if there are any etc... also, having been around a while, a lot of us will have a good idea of an instructor by seeing who he has trained with and where he is coming from. It's no guarantee, but may help narrow your search. Start with the "K" arts on google -put in some key words, and post what you find.

 

[fangjian]

Whatever you do, don't by in to the "it's not the style that matters, it's the practitioner" mentality too much. It does have a little bit of truth, but some styles ARE better than others. This is a fact.

 

[jks9199]

Whatever you do, don't by in to the "it's not the style that matters, it's the practitioner" mentality too much. It does have a little bit of truth, but some styles ARE better than others. This is a fact.

I'd disagree.

The instructor and training methods are much more important than the style. Some styles can be absorbed more quickly and thus be more likely to be effective more quickly but without the proper instruction -- they're still ineffective. Other styles may take years to be integrated into the body's movement, but once the student does do so -- watch out.

 

[fangjian]

I'd disagree.

The instructor and training methods are much more important than the style. Some styles can be absorbed more quickly and thus be more likely to be effective more quickly but without the proper instruction -- they're still ineffective. Other styles may take years to be integrated into the body's movement, but once the student does do so -- watch out.

They are not all created equal.
Which do you think is a better style for learning self defense or fighting application?

Contemporary wushu (performance routines) Tao Lu or San Shou ?

In regards to self defense/fighting application, one of those above IS inferior.
Just like if you want to learn about the night sky, Astrology IS inferior to astronomy.

 

[kip42]

Combat effectiveness... against what? Do you want to survive a zombie apocalypse? Then kenjutsu would be ideal.

In all seriousness, the question is not easy to answer.
Do you have to stay within the law or not? Against whom would you fight? etc...
Are weapons in the picture? If so, what type? Bladed, blunt, guns, poisons, ...

Without specific scenarios, the term 'combat effective' is really too open to answer.
If you assume serious life or death, than it would be pointless not to choose a weapons based art, as well as guns. If everyone is unarmed, then that is different again, but not something I'd describe as 'combat'.

I want to survive a modern street attack. Guns, knives, improvised weapons, multi attackers, etc. I went to a firearms school where the contractors for overseas jobs go. I know the laws but when it goes down I want to come out on top first and foremost. There has to be an art that would work better than others in a no rules no laws street defensive situation.

I am interested in the most effective techniques possible. Eye jabs, groin strikes, knee breaks, everything illegal in a competition that keeps you alive on the street...

 

[clfsean]

They are not all created equal.
Which do you think is a better style for learning self defense or fighting application?

Doesn't matter as long as they both teach you how to go home.

Contemporary wushu (performance routines) Tao Lu or San Shou ?

Apples & oranges. One is a distillation of TCMA for the express purpose of physical demonstration following Mao's comment on martial arts that "comrades do not fight comrades" and one is a distillation of the non-combative art after being reinfused with fighting theories.

In regards to self defense/fighting application, one of those above IS inferior.

No... one focuses on one aspect of MAs, one focuses on another. Both can get you out of a scrape, but I prefer mine which covers both nicely. However, I've seen & met modern guys I wouldn't scrap with because they chose to incorporate sanda into their training. I've also met modern wushu people that wouldn't scare a stick of warm butter. They chose not to incorporate sanda into their training. BUT... if they had to, they could drop a dime on you that might be a tad unexpected.

Just like if you want to learn about the night sky, Astrology IS inferior to astronomy.

Apples != Oranges.

 

[clfsean]

I want to survive a modern street attack. Guns, knives, improvised weapons, multi attackers, etc. I went to a firearms school where the contractors for overseas jobs go. I know the laws but when it goes down I want to come out on top first and foremost. There has to be an art that would work better than others in a no rules no laws street defensive situation.

I am interested in the most effective techniques possible. Eye jabs, groin strikes, knee breaks, everything illegal in a competition that keeps you alive on the street...

Well then I suggest taking what you already have in your bag of tricks, finding the nearest biker bar & have a go.

If you make it out, then you're fine. If not, I suggest picking one thing to practice, rinse & repeat.

 

[Supra Vijai]

Play Streetfighter, Tekken, Mortal Kombat, Killzone, Yakuza (PS2) and repeat. Memorize the moves, the targets, the fatalities, the combos and then go into your backyard and try them out against trees till you get real good. Then use that against an opponent who will do more than shed bark on you when you hit them.

What you're talking about is brawling not an art. To boot it's the "illegal" stuff you want which IMO no legitimate school should be teaching to it's impressionable students (or at least not till they reach a certain level of skill and maturity and know what is appropriate for when). At least that's how it seems to me and I'm only a beginner to MA myself.

EDIT: Sorry Sean beat me to my post! Kip, in a slightly serious note though, I train in Ninjutsu, I also train in Krav Maga. My primary art is always going to be the first and the latter helps me work on adrenaline based drills and free form expressions of things that I learn from both schools. In a fight I know which art is going to come out primarily. It's the same art that teaches me to perform joint/bone breaks, use improv weapons, eye gouges, groin hits and a range of other things that wouldn't even be allowed in the same arena as a competition. Krav just helps me try it out against people who fight their own way and have no idea what to expect. It IS the practitioner. Your attitude to the art determines what you get out of it.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Isshin-Ryu. 'Nuff said.

 

[fangjian]

Doesn't matter as long as they both teach you how to go home.



Apples & oranges. One is a distillation of TCMA for the express purpose of physical demonstration following Mao's comment on martial arts that "comrades do not fight comrades" and one is a distillation of the non-combative art after being reinfused with fighting theories.



No... one focuses on one aspect of MAs, one focuses on another. Both can get you out of a scrape, but I prefer mine which covers both nicely. However, I've seen & met modern guys I wouldn't scrap with because they chose to incorporate sanda into their training. I've also met modern wushu people that wouldn't scare a stick of warm butter. They chose not to incorporate sanda into their training. BUT... if they had to, they could drop a dime on you that might be a tad unexpected.



Apples != Oranges.

It is ludicrous to suggest that all martial arts styles are equal. Or even that all of them are even useful for their intended purpose. Some styles are good on the ground, some are good for stand up, some are good for knife fighting, and some are completely worthless. All legit martial arts or fighting methods follow the scientific method.

If you ask the question "What style is better, Muay Thai, Balintawak or Bjj?
of course, the question is meaningless because they all address different areas of combat

However if you ask "I want to compete in MMA competition and looking for the best kickboxing style"
You will find only a few that can meet that criteria.

Or if someone asks " I have only 1 year to train, and I need to learn a style that kinda' has a little bit of everything for basic self defense. You know. A little stand up, ground, knife, clinch..... Real world self defense for the modern day just to feel 'safe'. There's a few schools in my area. A Kyudo school. A contemporary wushu school. A Taiji school(who only works on performing 24 form). And a Kajukenbo school. " Which would you recommend to this person?

Btw. I hope you are not suggesting that astrology and astronomy are two separate paths up the same mountain. One of those, just like some martial art styles, is based on evidence. The other is based on believing without evidence.

 

[clfsean]

It is ludicrous to suggest that all martial arts styles are equal. Or even that all of them are even useful for their intended purpose. Some styles are good on the ground, some are good for stand up, some are good for knife fighting, and some are completely worthless. All legit martial arts or fighting methods follow the scientific method.

Of course they're not equal. You can't compare BJJ to Wing Chun or Goju-ryu to Muay Thai. Where did you come with that notion or incorrect assumption on your part that I made that statement??

If you ask the question "What style is better, Muay Thai, Balintawak or Bjj?
of course, the question is meaningless because they all address different areas of combat

Exactly. Apples & Oranges. Hence, my previous statement concerning the fruit.

However if you ask "I want to compete in MMA competition and looking for the best kickboxing style"
You will find only a few that can meet that criteria.

Not really. You will find schools that teach in a competative format vs a non-competative format. However, they will both teach you how to go home. Chances are the non-competative format will encompass ideas/theories/techniques that aren't focused on in the competative school due to fight regulations. Doesn't mean one is better than the other. It means they have different areas of focus.

Or if someone asks " I have only 1 year to train, and I need to learn a style that kinda' has a little bit of everything for basic self defense. You know. A little stand up, ground, knife, clinch..... Real world self defense for the modern day just to feel 'safe'. There's a few schools in my area. A Kyudo school. A contemporary wushu school. A Taiji school(who only works on performing 24 form). And a Kajukenbo school. " Which would you recommend to this person?

Loaded question. They all have pros & cons. This is a tit-for-tat setup.

Btw. I hope you are not suggesting that astrology and astronomy are two separate paths up the same mountain.

Nope... if you notice... Apples != Oranges was my statement.

One of those, just like some martial art styles, is based on evidence. The other is based on believing without evidence.

Martial evidence is survivability. That is a documented fact from all over Asia & the world.

Astrology is a faith in a pseudo-religion. There's no evidence required, just faith, much like any other religion or belief system.

Apples != Oranges.

 

[fangjian]

Of course they're not equal. You can't compare BJJ to Wing Chun or Goju-ryu to Muay Thai. Where did you come with that notion or incorrect assumption on your part that I made that statement??



Exactly. Apples & Oranges. Hence, my previous statement concerning the fruit.



Not really. You will find schools that teach in a competative format vs a non-competative format. However, they will both teach you how to go home. Chances are the non-competative format will encompass ideas/theories/techniques that aren't focused on in the competative school due to fight regulations. Doesn't mean one is better than the other. It means they have different areas of focus.



Loaded question. They all have pros & cons. This is a tit-for-tat setup.



Nope... if you notice... Apples != Oranges was my statement.



Martial evidence is survivability. That is a documented fact from all over Asia & the world.

Astrology is a faith in a pseudo-religion. There's no evidence required, just faith, much like any other religion or belief system.

Apples != Oranges.

Thanks for your response.
Sorry, I do not understand the ( ! ) thing. I'll have to google it. Also some martial arts ARE 'pseudo science and faith/no evidence required

I get that you know they are all 'not equal'. The point that I guess I am failing to make is that not only are they all 'not equal' but that some are just actually useless as a fighting or s.d. method. In regards to my loaded question, what exactly are the pros for going to a Taiji 24 form school ( for s.d./fighting techniques)?

You disagree? If so, please explain why.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Thanks for your response.
Sorry, I do not understand the ( ! ) thing. I'll have to google it. Also some martial arts ARE 'pseudo science and faith/no evidence required

I get that you know they are all 'not equal'. The point that I guess I am failing to make is that not only are they all 'not equal' but that some are just actually useless as a fighting or s.d. method.

You disagree? If so, please explain why.

Which ones are useless?

 

[oaktree]

Thanks for your response.
Sorry, I do not understand the ( ! ) thing. I'll have to google it. Also some martial arts ARE 'pseudo science and faith/no evidence required

I get that you know they are all 'not equal'. The point that I guess I am failing to make is that not only are they all 'not equal' but that some are just actually useless as a fighting or s.d. method. In regards to my loaded question, what exactly are the pros for going to a Taiji 24 form school ( for s.d./fighting techniques)?

You disagree? If so, please explain why.

Pros of learning Yang 24 Tajiquan form. Depending on the teacher you can learn quite alot of Qin na,Tui Shou, San Shou,Strikes,defensive moments and also learn all the other internal principles with it.

Anyway this thread is silly its an arguement that has been done to death on so many forums over the years. All I have to say about which art is the best is the one applied at the right moment and time needed to apply. Just my opinion it is worth only as much as you want it to be.