Weapon / Art question

[Bob Hubbard]

I'd like to compile a list of which arts train in which weapons, and add it to a database here. I need some help.

I'm hoping to format it something like this:

Katana (Japanese Sword) : Iaido, Iajitsu, Kenjitsu, Kendo

Shuriken (throwing blades) - Shurikenjutsu, ninjutsu,


and I'd hope to also create a brief summary of the arts, similar to the RMA FAQ.

Thank you for your help.

:asian:

 

[IFAJKD]

Kaith:

I am not clear what you are wanting to do here but I hope you will also add FMA. arts. Maybe break down bladed arts. flexible weapons, pole or clubed awepons, throwing weapons and projectile weapons

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
Katana (Japanese Sword) : Iaido, Iajitsu, Kenjitsu, Kendo

Also batto-jutsu/batto-do, and occasionally kenpo (yes, kenpo). See www.koryu.com for the classical Japanese arts; follow the links from:
http://koryu.com/guide/ryuguide.html#ryutype

Aikido will often train at least the bokken.

I think you will find this an endless task. There are so many weapons, so many styles and sub-styles, and so many dialectical differences (think of the Chinese weapons!). Good luck.

 

[Cthulhu]

katana: iaijutsu/iaido, kenjutsu/kendo, battojutsu/batto-do, aikido (bokken, really), naginatajutsu (for the kata), jojutsu (for the kata)

Actually, it may be easier to have the board members list what weapons are practiced in their styles, and then compile the database from that.

Going with that idea...

Okinawa-te: daggers, nunchaku, tonfa, rokushakubo, yawara, sai, kama, spear, naginata (kata), mace (really two sticks...kata), fan

kobudo: sai, kama, tonfa, rokushakubo, tinbe/rochin (short spear and shield), tekko (think brass knuckles), eku (oar), nunte (bo with a manji sai stuck in one end), nunchaku
* most styles of karate study one or more of the kobudo weapons.

Cthulhu

 

[Despairbear]

Add Aikido to the katana list, the knife list and the jo list.



Despair Bear

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I'm hoping for a list, basicically of what weapon, and where. I realize we'll miss a few thousand weapons, but I'm looking at an informatl, semi organized thing. Purpose is to answer a simple question: "I want to learn how to use X. Where should I look?"

I like Cthulhu's idea. List by art, and weapons studied. This way, if a person searches for "sword" they will find the 20+ arts that do sword, and possibly which ones, and can then have a little more to go on than looking in a phone book and seeing "Karate".

Many Thanks!

:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
kobudo: sai, kama, tonfa, rokushakubo, tinbe/rochin (short spear and shield), tekko (think brass knuckles), eku (oar), nunte (bo with a manji sai stuck in one end), nunchaku

Is there an Okinawan (edged) sword? I would think that the royal family's guards at least would have had such a weapon, but I don't ever recall seeing a Ryukyuan sword other than the sai and variants, and the sai presumably is a farmer's weapon.

 

[Cthulhu]

Well, karate is essentially a peasant's art, and swords were banned by one of the Okinawan kings. Motobu-ryu Udun-di was supposedly the royal art of Okinawa, but I don't know if they trained with swords. I think maybe they did, but I can't seem to find that resource (an old issue of the Journal of Asian Martial Arts).

Okinawa-te has a 'Sword & Hammer' kata, but it is an empty-hand form. I think there is a sword used in Okinawa-te, but it isn't a katana. I believe it would have been more like a butterfly sword.

Cthulhu

 

[IFAJKD]

I didn't know there was knife study in Akido

 

[Cthulhu]

I think it's mainly learning basic attacks for the benefit of learning defensive techniques. I'm probably wrong.

Cthulhu

 

[Jay Bell]

Kaith,

Check your messages

Jay

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Thanks!

Course, now I got another 1,000,000 questions.

:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
Well, karate is essentially a peasant's art

Agreed--I was thinking of the royal family's guards and soldiers. I knew there was a royal family art for example.

Motobu-ryu Udun-di was supposedly the royal art of Okinawa, but I don't know if they trained with swords. I think maybe they did

This link indicates that yes there was a sword but provides no clues on its nature:
http://www.jukokai.com/html/jukokai/three_toide_assoc.html

The article to which you are most likely referring is referenced here:
http://www.goviamedia.com/journal/articles.html
(Search on "udun" within the page.)

I also suspect the sword would have been shorter than the katana.

 

[Jay Bell]

This is my personal opinion, but anything explained or "documented" by the Juko Kai should be taken with a grain of salt regardless of subject.

 

[Cthulhu]

The juko-ryu description on the one page lists the katana as one of the weapons practiced under samurai weapons. However, that art is primarily a grappling and throwing art. In fact, I believe the site calls it the equivalent of Okinawan aiki-jujutsu.

I have that issue of the Journal of Asian Martial Arts somewhere. I can't find that journal here. Barnes & Noble used to carry it, but the one in my city doesn't have it.

I would imagine that the indigenous Okinawan sword would be based off of a Chinese weapon, since that is who most influenced them before Japan took over. Just as a guess, I would say something like a butterfly sword, Chinese broadsword, or tai chi sword. Nothing that had a forging process as sophisticated as a Japanese daito.

Cthulhu

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Jay Bell
This is my personal opinion, but anything explained or "documented" by the Juko Kai should be taken with a grain of salt regardless of subject.

I knew nothing of them but after reading that web page I was myself suspicious...the claims seemed a bit broad.

But, I continue to be curious...there simply must have been an Okinawan edged sword of some sort.

 

[Jay Bell]

These are the "martial artists" (used loosely) that were on the Discovery program not too long ago. They took straight on punches to the groin and throat. A concept he calls "Combat Ki"...which is completely missing the idea altogether.

He somehow gained the title of "Professor", yet it seems this was self-given.

Every piece of information they've put out is based on fraudelent claims.

Oddly enough, the founder created a "college". Where you could send him money and he'd send you a degree. It was promptly investigated when such information was brought to public light. I'm not positive...but I believe he no longer offers his "degree program".

One would be better off learning budo from a ballet class..

 

[Cthulhu]

I remember that program. I also remember that his section of the program was a damn joke. The narrator was talking about the students learning to take a kick to the groin and walking away as if nothing happened, but the person they showed demonstrating this limped away in obvious pain I thought the system had a different name, though...Combat Ki or something equally silly.

I believe this program also had a section on Uechi and Goju, as well as a section on Tanemura's ninjutsu.

I wish someone would do a televised documentary on the Katori Shinto Ryu. I have a book that was published in conjuction with the production of a BBC show on the martial arts that featured the Katari Shinto Ryu, but I've never seen the show air in the U.S.

Cthulhu

Originally posted by Jay Bell
These are the "martial artists" (used loosely) that were on the Discovery program not too long ago. They took straight on punches to the groin and throat.

 

[IFAJKD]

this is getting to that "showboat" martial arts that get an audiance from a stage. What does any of this crap have to do with martial arts. Demonstrating breaking, absorbing full contact strikes???????This in my opinion is what gives martial arts a bad name. these people can't fight themselves out of a paper bag. Before anyone goes to the "martial arts is more than fighting" I have to say that in its essence, martial arts is exactly that. "martial". the rest is bull and the stuff the stories are made of that start with. "I saw this black belt get the s%#@ kicked out him by a street punk with no training" If they stopped focusing on this type of entertainment maybe they could learn something useful. :soapbox: Chtu, does this post remind you of the forms competition thread?????? sorry!

 

[Jay Bell]

I wish someone would do a televised documentary on the Katori Shinto Ryu. I have a book that was published in conjuction with the production of a BBC show on the martial arts that featured the Katari Shinto Ryu, but I've never seen the show air in the U.S.

And you probably never will. Katori Shinto ryu is a very well guarded art. Deshi accepted in the ryu to this day must take Keppan.

The Friendship seminar that's done occasionally has Katori Shinto ryu demonstrations...