Watered Down Martial Arts

Oily Dragon

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Fish hooks lead to accidental bitings they don’t stop or end fights.

If you’re talking about ‘the real world’ it doesn’t matter if you blind some for life, or tear a nostril or cheek, if the bad guy has choked you to death.

But if you want to rely on techniques that have no evidence of being effective to protect yourself go for it.
Uh, fish hooks are one of the most dangerous banned techniques in MMA and grappling. They have a great track record of permanently maiming and ending life. That's just basic grappling know how.

In the street? You're looking at an aggravated felony in the lot of places for the same reasons.

This is a well understood phenom dude.

 

Oily Dragon

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I do drills with my students where they have no rules, they just have to get away from me. Guess how many fish hooks and eye gouges and what not successfully got a student away from me. You know what has worked? Sport legal techniques, like punching in the nose.
If you're allowing fish hooks in your school, make sure you carry a lot of insurance. My guess is nobody tries it in your school because it's literally dangerous.

But it sounds like you don't have much grappling experience in general. Weird because I could have sworn Goju Ryu taught fishhooks. Maybe you got the watered down version. :D.

Jk, I don't know much about Goju Ryu, i could be wrong.
 
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Oily Dragon

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Clearly, you have not been properly fish hooked by a person with grip strength. I wouldn’t call it fight ending, but when applied correctly it certainly is an uncomfortable experience. Your soup doesn’t stay in your mouth for a couple days after. I learned it from my dad, it worked pretty well in 4th grade.
Listen, I'm gonna be as nice as a can but ANY trained high school or college wrestlers learn this stuff, both how much it sucks and can rip your jaw out and how effective fish hooking the mouth or anal region (or better, both) can be in competition. Hence banned in MMA, wrestling, even Vale Tudo.

 

Wing Woo Gar

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Listen, I'm gonna be as nice as a can but ANY trained high school or college wrestlers learn this stuff, both how much it sucks and can rip your jaw out and how effective fish hooking the mouth or anal region (or better, both) can be in competition. Hence banned in MMA, wrestling, even Vale Tudo.

I haven’t had it applied to me in an actual fight. I have not applied it to an opponent in a fight. I remember having it done to me in Jiu Jitsu class as a kid by a mean orange belt named Koi. It was not pleasant. My dad showed me it as a kid. I am somewhat averse to putting my surgical money makers into someone’s mouth. The oil check, on the other hand is rather safer in most circles (other hand because we don’t go ATM, caveat: maybe in the heat of passion, but don’t make a habit out of it). Anyway, no need to be nice, I’m admitting I haven’t got much experience in fish hooking. We can’t seriously be getting heated over fish hooking technique or efficacy in here can we? Can we? I love that you are warning
me that you are trying to be nice, but that implies effort on your part. This means I have upset you somehow, so I would like to take this opportunity to apologize and remind you that I am in no way trying to contradict the wise teachings of ancient fish hooking knowledge, nor do I purport to have anything of value or substance to add. Except the not going ATM part, I mean that’s just not very hygienic.
 

Oily Dragon

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I haven’t had it applied to me in an actual fight. I have not applied it to an opponent in a fight. I remember having it done to me in Jiu Jitsu class as a kid by a mean orange belt named Koi. It was not pleasant. My dad showed me it as a kid. I am somewhat averse to putting my surgical money makers into someone’s mouth. The oil check, on the other hand is rather safer in most circles (other hand because we don’t go ATM, caveat: maybe in the heat of passion, but don’t make a habit out of it). Anyway, no need to be nice, I’m admitting I haven’t got much experience in fish hooking. We can’t seriously be getting heated over fish hooking technique or efficacy in here can we? Can we? I love that you are warning
me that you are trying to be nice
, but that implies effort on your part. This means I have upset you somehow, so I would like to take this opportunity to apologize and remind you that I am in no way trying to contradict the wise teachings of ancient fish hooking knowledge, nor do I purport to have anything of value or substance to add. Except the not going ATM part, I mean that’s just not very hygienic.
Wasn't warning you.

Actually none of that post was addressed to you.

I just hit reply and you were last. Sorry.
 

Oily Dragon

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Here were Goju's comments that I picked up on.

"They’re often banned because they don’t end fights, but have a high likelihood of degrading someone’s quality of life over many exposures.
Fish hooking doesn’t destroy the jaw
. Holy hell where’d you hear that?"

He is wrong on both counts. It doesn't just destroy the jaw, but all sorts of other things like the tongue, larynx, esophagus, not to mention it stops the breathing process and engage the gag reflex. Imagine choking on your own vomit in a fight because somebody engaged your gag reflex.

Where'd I hear it? Vision Quest? Probably not...but I can't remember, I'm old.
 

GojuTommy

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If you're allowing fish hooks in your school, make sure you carry a lot of insurance. My guess is nobody tries it in your school because it's literally dangerous.

But it sounds like you don't have much grappling experience in general. Weird because I could have sworn Goju Ryu taught fishhooks. Maybe you got the watered down version. :D.

Jk, I don't know much about Goju Ryu, i could be wrong.
I’ve got plenty of grappling experience.

There just no evidence banned techniques are as devastating as people like you claim
 

GojuTommy

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Uh, fish hooks are one of the most dangerous banned techniques in MMA and grappling. They have a great track record of permanently maiming and ending life. That's just basic grappling know how.

In the street? You're looking at an aggravated felony in the lot of places for the same reasons.

This is a well understood phenom dude.

Just curious but did you read your link?
 

GojuTommy

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Clearly, you have not been properly fish hooked by a person with grip strength. I wouldn’t call it fight ending, but when applied correctly it certainly is an uncomfortable experience. Your soup doesn’t stay in your mouth for a couple days after. I learned it from my dad, it worked pretty well in 4th grade.
Plenty of things are uncomfortable, but while you’re busy putting your fingers near my chompers, I have plenty of time to use my hands to deal with your undefended body.
 

GojuTommy

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So your students fish hooked and eye gouged you and it didn’t work, but when they punched you in the nose you let go? Hmm. Elbows and knees to back of head/neck? Medial to lateral knee kicks? Soccer kick to prone opponent? Certain foot/leg lock combos? Small joint manipulations? There are some few things that aren’t in rulesets for good reason. These I listed because I think they are far more useful than biting, poking, fish hooking etc. Are your students doing these to each other or you? They can work quite well if there are no rulesets and no concerns for the future health of the participants. :rolleyes:
They tried.
When you have a dominate position preventing an eye gouge isn’t that hard.
Same with fish hooking.
 

Oily Dragon

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I’ve got plenty of grappling experience.

There just no evidence banned techniques are as devastating as people like you claim
Sure there is.

The entire history of wrestling, for starters.

It was banned long before UFC dude....
 

punisher73

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Did that end the fight or did the guards end the fight by separating the fighters?

Both, the fish hooked fighter gave up and just turtled up on the ground and the other guy kept pounding on him until broken up. It was most definitely a fight ender in that case.
 

GojuTommy

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Both, the fish hooked fighter gave up and just turtled up on the ground and the other guy kept pounding on him until broken up. It was most definitely a fight ender in that case.
The fish hooks people keep referencing here all require the dominate position to use, is that the same in the situation you’re referring to?
 
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