USAT task force is in

[terryl965]

What iseveryone take on the task force report on what USAT should do? I am still trying to figure out why some of this is even being consider but will hold my thoughts until I fully read and understand everything. I just briefly had time to go over it. I guess my school will not be allow to vote because I have not been a member for three cons. years and have 50 members, so I did get that if you are a small school you are screwed.

 

[Gorilla]

WOW! They just put TKD in a choke hold. Not good!!!!!

 

[terryl965]

WOW! They just put TKD in a choke hold. Not good!!!!!

Would you care to explain in detail what you mean Gorilla, I believe I understand your comment but maybe everybody else does not.

 

[Gorilla]

With regard to membership categories it is recommended that only protected
categories of membership should be allowed access to USAT’s dispute resolution mechanism. This is generally for athletes only and includes coaches for Olympic Games and Pan-American games selections. Along these lines, the supporting member category should be changed. Supporting members should become supporting donors. The category embraces those who are not competitors, referees, coaches or club owners. Thus they are not entitled to the same rights as the important stakeholders in the organization. USAT

As you stated Terry it limits those who can vote. It also limits those who can file complaints(See Above). Most ethics complaints are filed at the behest of athletes by non-athlete/coaches/ref because of the fear of reprisal. Most of the noise around the issues at the USAT have been filed by those who can't be hurt by the USAT. The above clause could potentially silence them or curtail there ability to file formal protests/complaints. Athletes/Coaches/Refs will have to file their own complaints and be subject to identification and possible retribution.

They are also proposing adding National Team Coaches as Non-Voting Members of the board. Which is a conflict of interest because the board discusses salary and review of their positions as National Team Coaches. Another conflict of interest in what is already a sea of crony-ism and conflicts of interest.

 

[RSweet]

The biggest question of the day has to be "WHY IS THERE SUCH A RUSH TO MAKE SUCH A DRASTIC CHANGE?" The only answer I can come up with is that someone is afraid "THE WRONG PEOPLE WILL WIN AGAIN."

1. How many schools does USAT have? safe guess is about 500 or less.
2. What is the current membership? I think I would be generous at 12,000.
3. How many schools have 35 members now to get the free insurance? Not that many. Is it because they don't register all their "important stakeholders?"

This means the average school has 24 members. In that a handful of schools have 200 or so and no one has more than 300 to my knowledge and few in the 200's, we can safely state that in general, added to the state of the economy, the average Taekwondo school is pretty small. They have already register their "important stakeholders." The coaches, referees and competitors are already registered. However, the only way to hit the magic number 35 or 50 is to sign up the "unimportant donors" - parents and athletes who are not competitors and never will be.

What more school owners than board members know is that tournaments are bad for business. Students have to decide between paying their monthly dues and the tournament entry fee. Then whenever you take 10 or more, if someone get hurt, someone loses, mom gets tired of sitting around all day - at least 1-3 of that 10 will quit the school. That is why most schools do in-school tournaments with no or limited contact. There is no money in having a competition school, which is why there are so few of them. Many schools - one sparring class a weekif that many and you can get a black belt without sparring, let alone USAT competition. There is no money in Olympic Sparring for the majority of coaches unless you are a Juan Moreno with branches and seminars, only love of the sport. It is the art that supports the school and the USAT. It is all the "unimportant stakeholders" who pay the bills.

Off on a tangent, but fact of the matter is even Sang Lee with buying of votes could not get the majority of schools to register 35 members. Sang Lee would have upped the ante to 50, but he knew that you don't start at the top number. You milk what you can get but you don't drain the cow dry.

Looking at the 50 average over 3 years proposal - which by the way if you asked club owners if they had known this, would they have re-newed their memberships? Would the new schools that joined, this year or last year through the MAC - would they have even joined? Will they renew next year knowing that there is no chance of getting the magic 50 to vote for a fixed election for a board that will contain a large percentage of paid staff and Independents who don't really know the art of TKD? Will this kill off membership faster than Herb Perez and the HLTC?

Has anyone crunched the numbers? Has anyone polled the clubs to see how many students they have total? The simple math does not support this.

Fact is the only way this proposal would work would be to implement over a 3-5 year period and maybe not even then. USAT is already seen as money grubbing - remember the Stay to Play debacle earlier this year? At this point, this is just an attempt to extort more money from already strapped school owners.

Seriously, Jeff Benz and Harvey Schiller are good people but they are USOC people. There are only 2 groups in their world - the athletes and the officials. The rest are donors who pay for it all. They do not understand the history of how we got to the 35 number in the past and why it never changed. However, they also know that this system is built to encourage cemetary voting. Or at least they did and no longer care. It is also one reason they worked the remediation plan (USAT was NEVER DECERTIFIED).

I would also ask why the CEO would want paid employees on the board, even non voting when it is his job to safeguard and handle their interests and budgets. They may not be able to vote, but they would have access to budgets and other sensitive materials that they don't necessarily need to do their jobs. Jean and Juan have addressed the board many times, they don't need a seat on it. They don't need an every meeting opportunity to lobby their and the CEO's causes. All this does is take allow the CEO more voices on the board to push his personal agendas.
The biggest question of the day has to be "WHY IS THERE SUCH A RUSH TO MAKE SUCH A DRASTIC CHANGE?" The only answer I can come up with is that someone is afraid "THE WRONG PEOPLE WILL WIN AGAIN."

 

[bluewaveschool]

This is the kind of thing that makes me leary of joining a large org.

 

[Gorilla]

This is the kind of thing that makes me leary of joining a large org.[/QUOTE

No need to join
USAT

 

[granfire]

every time I think my Mothership has reached new lows, Terryl digs a new doozie up about his....oh man...I think I am just going solo, maybe ask my instructor for private lessons now and then...

 

[Master Dan]

WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF TAEKWONDO IN US?????

There is a constant power strugle between USAT AND USTC and now the Kukkiwon we know and love has had a big shake up? Where will it all end?

I hate to think of those of us who have 30 40 years in loosing certification due to a changing of the guard like USTU to USAT?

There are many things I do not like aobut USAT related to no repsect for original GM's and state association and Traditional TKD, going around Masters and GMs to test lower rank and issue rank sometimes jumping triple skip Dan? but no actual Kukkiwon rank given?

Both organizations have thier purpose but maybe only one can survive and must serve both family, traditional tkd and Olympic sport?

I would just like to hear repsected unbiazed opinion from Masters and GM's we trust where all this is going as opposed to one source that obviously has an ax to grind with anyone who has an opion not thier's.

I don't hear the real people speaking out on this just the ankle bitters??

 

[terryl965]

WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF TAEKWONDO IN US?????

There is a constant power strugle between USAT AND USTC and now the Kukkiwon we know and love has had a big shake up? Where will it all end?

I hate to think of those of us who have 30 40 years in loosing certification due to a changing of the guard like USTU to USAT?

There are many things I do not like aobut USAT related to no repsect for original GM's and state association and Traditional TKD, going around Masters and GMs to test lower rank and issue rank sometimes jumping triple skip Dan? but no actual Kukkiwon rank given?

Both organizations have thier purpose but maybe only one can survive and must serve both family, traditional tkd and Olympic sport?

I would just like to hear repsected unbiazed opinion from Masters and GM's we trust where all this is going as opposed to one source that obviously has an ax to grind with anyone who has an opion not thier's.

I don't hear the real people speaking out on this just the ankle bitters??

Well Master Dan I am one of those people with 30-40 years in and have bben beat down by the power shift from USTU to USAT, my referring certification was lost and so was everything else even though I supported them they turned there back on me and my players. I do not have an ax to grind but any club now must have 50 members for three years to have a voice is stupid this is what Davis wants to be in control with only a few pupets to boss around. I for one am tired of all the BS and that is why we mainly suppoort AAU less politics for us and we get fair competition. The few that may need the USAT I keep a small crack in the door so they can go and compete but until they can fully support all athletes than whyam I spending money for the few?

 

[Gorilla]

WHAT IS THE FUTURE OF TAEKWONDO IN US?????

There is a constant power strugle between USAT AND USTC and now the Kukkiwon we know and love has had a big shake up? Where will it all end?

I hate to think of those of us who have 30 40 years in loosing certification due to a changing of the guard like USTU to USAT?

There are many things I do not like aobut USAT related to no repsect for original GM's and state association and Traditional TKD, going around Masters and GMs to test lower rank and issue rank sometimes jumping triple skip Dan? but no actual Kukkiwon rank given?

Both organizations have thier purpose but maybe only one can survive and must serve both family, traditional tkd and Olympic sport?

I would just like to hear repsected unbiazed opinion from Masters and GM's we trust where all this is going as opposed to one source that obviously has an ax to grind with anyone who has an opion not thier's.

I don't hear the real people speaking out on this just the ankle bitters??

I would like some clarification on who you are calling an ankle bitter!!!!

 

[Master Dan]

Well Master Dan I am one of those people with 30-40 years in and have bben beat down by the power shift from USTU to USAT,

Yes I was one also that lost referee and coaching status and I agree with you totally I appreciate your detailed info. Just wish I knew who I was talking to sometimes. The ankle bitters comment was ment for non master or Gup ranks that rant on.

I don't really care about voting and Olympic sparing is good for the villages I work with because they are competitive and gives a legal way to for them to vent but the expense to get one kid at $3,000 per student to a major tournament is just not an option for them.

 

[terryl965]

Well Master Dan I am one of those people with 30-40 years in and have bben beat down by the power shift from USTU to USAT,

Yes I was one also that lost referee and coaching status and I agree with you totally I appreciate your detailed info. Just wish I knew who I was talking to sometimes. The ankle bitters comment was ment for non master or Gup ranks that rant on.

I don't really care about voting and Olympic sparing is good for the villages I work with because they are competitive and gives a legal way to for them to vent but the expense to get one kid at $3,000 per student to a major tournament is just not an option for them.

WellMaster Dan my namw is Master Terry Stoker out of Arlington Texas, it is all in my profile. I never hide behind any other name, I believe in fair play and the right for all to compete and have a voice. I also believe that coaches of athletes making the Olympic team should be allow to coach there own players since it was them building that relationship and trust for all those years. A certain few are not going to know the tendaxcies of those athletes. Sorry got on a rant of sort.

 

[StudentCarl]

I don't hear the real people speaking out on this just the ankle bitters??

Sir, I'm a gup rank athlete, so by your definition I'm an ankle biter. Are you saying that only masters' and big school owners' opinions count on this? That sounds like the kind of problem USAT is being accused of. I hope you would judge my posts by their content and not by the number of my gup or dan. Ranting is not related to low rank or less experience--sometimes the opposite.

I understand there are additional issues for school owners, but these changes also affect the ability of athletes to have fair opportunities to compete at high levels, so I have a stake too.

BTW, ever fight multiple assailants? "Ankle biting" is very effective if you watch a pack of wolves drive animals. Maybe you were complimenting rather than insulting. I can hope.

Carl

 

[granfire]

I usually keep out of this because the USAT is not my club, but The Mothership has been doing like things in the last few years, and he koolaid drinkers were all to happy to cut the voices of those 'down there', trying to mark influence on things like student numbers and school locations/numbers.
Those who voiced a different opinion than company line were pretty much told they were not welcome (then dubbed 'dissenters' on the way out)

For the life of me I don't get why any organization wants to treat the base like this, that's cutting off your nose to spite your face, especially when - in case of The Mothership - it's all about the money.

I can sympathize with those who spend considerable amounts of money and time, only to see things being taken from them. And it double stinks when you can't even figure out why.

 

[Gorilla]

Well Master Dan I am one of those people with 30-40 years in and have bben beat down by the power shift from USTU to USAT,

Yes I was one also that lost referee and coaching status and I agree with you totally I appreciate your detailed info. Just wish I knew who I was talking to sometimes. The ankle bitters comment was ment for non master or Gup ranks that rant on.

I don't really care about voting and Olympic sparing is good for the villages I work with because they are competitive and gives a legal way to for them to vent but the expense to get one kid at $3,000 per student to a major tournament is just not an option for them.

Several Masters are commenting on this thread. Terry, RSweet bis a TKD MASTER and Former Chairman of the Board of the USAT. I am the parent of a TKD Athlete who competes both Nationally and Internationally

 

[RSweet]

Get the latest - I have links on my website, along with some of the stupidity from the report. I personally like killing the committee that was ELECTED by USAT members and replacing with a committee to select independents and candidates by the CEO (the board supervises the CEO so yah, let's let him pick), the USOC and the BOD. NO AAC either!

But get this one.

8/5/10 WTF announces that Olympic referees need to go to camp and the procedure.
9/5/10 Deadline for Member nations to send their nominees.
9/5/10 USAT sends list
9/14/10 USAT posts note for IR's to apply.
9/30/10 USAT deadline for applications for list that was already sent 25 days before that.

Want to be there are no undesirables on that list?