Training half of martial arts bugs me.

[Gerry Seymour]

Mabye self competence is the better term.

Can you clarify what that would mean? Competence at being onself?

 

[drop bear]

Can you clarify what that would mean? Competence at being onself?

Sounds good enough.

I was thinking the difference between being comfortable in a confrontation because you have no clue what your situation is vs being comfortable because you do.

 

[drop bear]

To the age thing, as I said, it's a personal observation from a limited sample. Yes, people of all ages participate in MMA and BJJ. You see fewer young folks at many of the traditional schools, with the (possible) exception of those with a strong kids' program, where they may have a stream of folks graduation from the kids' program to the adult classes.

At my old school, there are few students under 40. In all my time teaching, I think I've only ever had 3 people under 30 even come in to check out classes. So the selection bias is there. It's certainly not the whole story, but it's a factor not worth ignoring.

There are so many oldies doing BJJ that they have a masters division.

BJJ Competitions: How Are Masters Different From Adult Divisions?

Is there enough people in your style for a masters division?

How many people competing here are under 30?

 

[drop bear]

There's your argument from the extreme again. You're just not capable of discussing factors without them being absolutes, are you?

You are making excuses. And it is simple as that.

factors would be. We have a lot of oldies in our gym and can't compete as well with the twenty year olds. And so don't do as well or pick less win or die style competitions.

Or I just don't want to be as good at this as I can be because I choose pizza and sleep ins over performance and development.

It is not for some reason all my students lack motivation to succeed so therefore I have to vegie patch my entire system for everyone.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Sounds good enough.

I was thinking the difference between being comfortable in a confrontation because you have no clue what your situation is vs being comfortable because you do.

That would be confidence in fighting skills, or confronation de-escalations skills, or whatnot. And that's important. And that should be based on actual ability to do those things.

But it's not the general self-confidence I'm talking about. In the last couple of posts.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There are so many oldies doing BJJ that they have a masters division.

BJJ Competitions: How Are Masters Different From Adult Divisions?

Is there enough people in your style for a masters division?

How many people competing here are under 30?

Proportionately, there are far more in that age group in NGA (as a portion of the total NGA population). Absolute numbers aren't really relevant when discussing selection bias, except insofar as they affect things like statistical significance.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You are making excuses. And it is simple as that.

factors would be. We have a lot of oldies in our gym and can't compete as well with the twenty year olds. And so don't do as well or pick less win or die style competitions.

Or I just don't want to be as good at this as I can be because I choose pizza and sleep ins over performance and development.

It is not for some reason all my students lack motivation to succeed so therefore I have to vegie patch my entire system for everyone.

Okay, go ahead and put those words in my mouth. You've done precisely this before. It seems to calm you.

 

[drop bear]

That would be confidence in fighting skills, or confronation de-escalations skills, or whatnot. And that's important. And that should be based on actual ability to do those things.

But it's not the general self-confidence I'm talking about. In the last couple of posts.

Correct it isn't what you are talking about.

 

[drop bear]

Proportionately, there are far more in that age group in NGA (as a portion of the total NGA population). Absolute numbers aren't really relevant when discussing selection bias, except insofar as they affect things like statistical significance.

So there are quite probably proportionately more old people who compete in the masters than train in NGA.

And you are still trying to claim it is an old person thing?

I mean you are suggesting you have some sort of geared towards older people system. The masters is specifically a geared towards old people system.

This is martial arts with the youth factor removed.

 

[drop bear]

Okay, go ahead and put those words in my mouth. You've done precisely this before. It seems to calm you.

You are an excuse machine. Everything is not your fault or it is too upsetting to deal with.

It is a toxic mindset.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So there are quite probably proportionately more old people who compete in the masters than train in NGA.

And you are still trying to claim it is an old person thing?

I mean you are suggesting you have some sort of geared towards older people system. The masters is specifically a geared towards old people system.

This is martial arts with the youth factor removed.

Yes, if you limit to one division that is specifically only for older folks. But that's pretty much just twisting the statistics to say whatever you want, now isn't it?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You are an excuse machine. Everything is not your fault or it is too upsetting to deal with.

It is a toxic mindset.

So, telling someone that's not what I said, and that they entirely misread it...that's an excuse? So.......not your fault??

 

[drop bear]

Proportionately, there are far more in that age group in NGA (as a portion of the total NGA population). Absolute numbers aren't really relevant when discussing selection bias, except insofar as they affect things like statistical significance.

Proportionately?

100% of people who compete in the masters are over 30.

 

[drop bear]

Yes, if you limit to one division that is specifically only for older folks. But that's pretty much just twisting the statistics to say whatever you want, now isn't it?

No. It is one group dedicated to older martial artists.

I can compare just the masters with all of NGA and still probably have more over 30s in the master than NGA. And all of them compete.

This is my point. The sample size is so large that your selective bias idea goes out the window.

It doesn't matter if it is 3% of the bjj population if the % of the total population of old people is bigger.

 

[drop bear]

So, telling someone that's not what I said, and that they entirely misread it...that's an excuse? So.......not your fault??

Making up an untrue statistic to place the responsibility of your gym culture on your students is making an excuse.

Now I know in your head you think you are doing something different. But that is also an excuse.

I haven't misrepresented or misunderstood you.

I have disagreed with you.

Which you take as some sort of personal attack which is an excuse.

We have played the I didn't say that game from both ends And I just copied your responses. And you backfliped each time. And yet even though you are arguing with your own logic. Each time you claim to be the victim.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Proportionately?

100% of people who compete in the masters are over 30.

And 100% of the people who train NGA are human. Both are meaningless statistics, and I'm pretty sure you're aware of that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No. It is one group dedicated to older martial artists.

I can compare just the masters with all of NGA and still probably have more over 30s in the master than NGA. And all of them compete.

This is my point. The sample size is so large that your selective bias idea goes out the window.

It doesn't matter if it is 3% of the bjj population if the % of the total population of old people is bigger.

Um, no. You're comparing folks over 50 in a population to another population. That's cherry-picking, at the least.

It doesn't change the demographic, just because you select part of the total to compare to.

And, yeah, 100% of people who are in a competititon group compete. That's post-selection. You're smarter than this crap, man.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Making up an untrue statistic to place the responsibility of your gym culture on your students is making an excuse.

Now I know in your head you think you are doing something different. But that is also an excuse.

I haven't misrepresented or misunderstood you.

I have disagreed with you.

Which you take as some sort of personal attack which is an excuse.

We have played the I didn't say that game from both ends And I just copied your responses. And you backfliped each time. And yet even though you are arguing with your own logic. Each time you claim to be the victim.

No, you've either misunderstood, or misrepresented, or both. I tend to think the latter, because your bias againt the term "Aikido" makes it difficult for you to read anything containing that word with any objectivity, and your dishonest "debate" methods often include apparently deliberate twisting of things people say.

If you want to disagree with what I say, I'm fine with that. But when you rephrase something to make it something I didn't say, then disagree with that, it's just laughable.

 

[Steve]

That would be confidence in fighting skills, or confronation de-escalations skills, or whatnot. And that's important. And that should be based on actual ability to do those things.

But it's not the general self-confidence I'm talking about. In the last couple of posts.

Self confidence is a good thing, and false confidence is not. I think what you're referring to is more like self-esteem, which I would say is a little different. This is, more than anything, what bothers me about a lot of "self defense' training. Confidence, in general, is a great way to build self esteem. But when that confidence is tested, if you can do what you believe you can do, it will actually build your confidence and, consequently, strengthen your self esteem. Conversely, if you cannot do what you think, that false confidence can be devastating. Physically (in this case) because in a self defense situation, the skills you were relying on are not there. And also emotionally, because you realize in a moment that you are not who you thought.

Big picture, I don't have any problem with any training. Do what you want, as long as you're having fun and doing no harm to others. But when you call is self defense training, that's entering into an area where the stakes are raised. Simply put, selling that you're having fun, horsing around, learning some stuff, trying things out, staying fit, building a sense of community, and being a part of a group... that's all wonderful. And for most people, that's probably all they want or need. But at the end of the day, if you say it's all of those things AND a self defense system, it needs to function as a self defense system.

In fact, I think NOT referring to or selling NGA as a self defense (i.e., fighting) system could actually make it MORE effective for self defense (i.e, making people safer).

 

[drop bear]

Yes, if you limit to one division that is specifically only for older folks. But that's pretty much just twisting the statistics to say whatever you want, now isn't it?

No that is proportionately more of the general older population than your sample.

So when I said BJJ is basically open to everyone. And you countered with this selection bias nonsense your argument was that NGA has more old people.

And it doesn't. Because BJJ is a bigger, better and more accurate sample of the general community.

I could find smaller more niche martial arts with a predominantly younger population who don't compete as well. But they would not be good examples.

And that would be because it is the culture of the organization to not compete. Not this genetic difference or whatever.

Definitely not because for some reason those smaller niche organizations just happens to have attracted people incapable of competition.

We can even look at program like the wimp to warrior that take random selections of people from most ages and makes them compete.

Your issue is specific to NGA. And it is a culture issue. Which you are using selection bias as an excuse.