Hanzo04 said:
as far as reality based martilarts go, it's probably a tie with Krav Maga and JKD . all you do is take what is useful and discard the rest. you also learn weapon usage and weapon disarmment. Krav Maga is used as the Israelies main fighting defense in the millitary. it's like TKD and Korea nobody does it like the home country.
Huh? The former is a marketing ploy, not a real MA. It IS NOT taught by the Israeli Defense Force. Try Hagah Na. JKD is Bruce Lee's fighting methods and no one else's. He wanted all MAs to come up with their OWN way. Plus, what about JKD makes it so special? You can only progress so far with its strategies, and when you're older its principles can't work without athleticism and strength. Bruce had plenty of athleticism with little knowledge and experience with any art, even Wing Chun. Does being athletic and arrogant qualify someone to be a master of fighting? Nope. That takes tenure and tried and true methods IN REAL LIFE, not the ring.
Hanzo04 said:
on traditional martial arts none is more obselite than karate (except for kenpo). the techniques are too stiff with too much emphasis on power and not enough speed. You can't substitute power for speed! to many of these coward thugs know how to box these days. some traditional MA that still work are American Kenpo, for it's vital targets emphasis and it's scientific approach to combat. not to mention it's very speedy attacks. Wing chun, because it's close combat fighting system is nearly unmatched and it's long line of martial champions Won Shun Leung, william Cheung, and of course bruce lee. and the last one is Ninjutsu or budo taijutsu. i believe this very traditional art is still effective to this day. thanks to people like Stephen hayes and jack hoban the martial has survived the 80's and is still thriving. they are another school of martial arts that claim defense from all possible positions and situations. i think this is rightfully so. the old practisioners of this deadly art were ninjas and the techniques were proven in combat for thousands of years. they too empasize defense against firearms not to mention the usage of there very traditional weapons.
i would have mentioned TKD since it is my art, but it's hand techniques are few and far between. thanks
It's O-B-S-O-L-E-T-E. Like your views and comments. They gots ways to look up words on the net so's ya' don't have to write like a 9 year old.
First off, Ninpo? Are you kidding? Taijutsu? It's not real, genius. Research stuff and don't assume. Just because someone tells you something doesn't mean it's true. Just because the majority of idiots believe that their hope religions, hope knowledge and hope philosophies are the one and only don't make it so. Maybe it is, but do YOU really know? Or are you jumping on the commercial, mass appeal bandwagon? I think you is. Don't be a follower. Lead ya' damn self, martial "artist".
I guess all my years of Shorin Ryu training won't help me in the streets. But wait they have, many times, especially when I lived in SE Asia. I guess the Marines implementing Okinawan karate for their h2h training and even adopting belt ranks, means you and Somchat Siddachai, Bob Goosen and Tito Ortiz know better than the USMC, what is good for real life-or-death fighting and what ain't. Oh well, I guess since you are the leading authority on what works based on TV and ring sport, I should listen to you and do Krap Maggot or Take One's Doe. Hell naw!!! What karate ryu/ryuha, out of the hundreds, are you speaking of anyway? TSD or TKD? Listen to this quote from the late 1800s. Bushi Matsumura (founder of Shuri Te/Shorin, your style's progenitor) to his student Itosu Anko- "Yes, you have a very strong punch Itosu, but without SPEED you can't so much as touch me"! Shorin Ryu is a fast karate style and the practitioners are well renowned for their speed and punching ability. Remember Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace? Both were mid-level Shorin-ka at the best when they were INVENTING kickboxing, and they could punch and kick very well. They did Shorin Ryu for one-two years at best, and they were integral in formulating modern kickboxing. Imagine if they would have trained for a lifetime (or at least a decade). They might have included the grappling and groundfighting inherent in all Okinawan MAs, and thought more highly of the kata that teaches it. They would ahve learned weapons and added an entire new dimension to their training and ability.
BTW, don't comment on kata unless you've done a karate style that understands what those movements mean, and just because a style like GJJ/BJJ/CJJ doesn't do formal kata or drills (they do, but just don't know it) doesn't mean it isn't traditional. Regardless of what the Gracies or anyone associated with GJJ/BJJ/CJJ thinks they do a traditional art just like the traditional Okinawan and Chinese family styles that they profess to despise (for no reason other than to claim they are better). GJJ/BJJ meets ALL the criteria for a traditional art, even moreso than most Japanese and Korean "karate". Again, only speak on things you're sure of.
Do Vanderlei Silva and Maurice Smith know who started their art in America (and most of the world except Burma, Thailand and France)? Oh, hell yeah! Do they know that the FOUNDERS of their sport were Okinawan karate-ka with limited knowledge and skill? I doubt it, but it's true. Now kickboxing is thought of as the epitome of striking styles. Hahaha, every green belt Okinawan karate-ka should be a good kickboxer. It is modern karate's randori and the Okinawans didn't practice it any other way except full contact. Kickboxing is beginner karate.
Shorin Ryu is the original version of your precious diluted Shotokan with high kicks- aka: TKD. The same goes for Uechi Ryu and Kyokushinkai. Come to blows with those guys. Drop some dogs with a real kenpo-ka (Okinawan Kenpo not that fake American/Hawaiian/Chinese Kempo) or real Okinawan karate-ka. Allow grappling and get the surprise of your life when a TOMAs person waxes you. Oh, allow punching to the head. Tell me what you learn.
Wing Chun is a good SD art? Then why did Bruce decide it was stagnant and ineffectual. Why did he have a fight with some cat for 20 MINUTES with no clear-cut winner? His art and experience as a Hong Kong street ruffian meant squat against a skinny, weakling like Wong Jack Man. 'Cause like Robert Smith says, Wing Chun is a very minor and not-so-respected Southern style, that is nonexistent anywhere in China except Hong Kong, which btw is not a hotbed of good Chuan Fa! It's a limited style that doesn't address all ranges contrary to popular belief. At least what Bruce knew of it.
This jockin' and dissin' of arts you know nothing of is so prevalent on the web. I am part Filipino. I lived in the PI for a good part of my life and I can tell you that the fascination folks here in the states have for FMAs is weird. The Filipino's don't share it. First off, like many hispanics in America, it is seen as a Spanish-influenced art not an indigenous one like Silat. It is not a thing of pride, because it was heavily influenced by Spanish fencing. Even its common name, Escrima, is a Spanish word. They see it as a limited "art" at best.
The Filipino's train in arts that are fun and Olympic sporty like TKD and Judo or that are good for fighting, like Okinawan karate (especially Goju Ryu and Shorin Ryu), Kuntaw/Silat, Muay Thai, Boxing, Pilipino Kickboxing and recently BJJ. There, where it's perpetual martial law and the only folks with guns are crooks, soldiers and politicians, you best know something real if you're gonna waste your precious money and time. I don't remember ever seeing any fake American Kenpo taught there, Kraut Magnet, or whatever flavor of the month junk MAs you're talking about. It wouldn't last, because you get challenged all the time and the Filipinos know about real fighting. You better be able to squab', because you will have to protect your neck at least once in your life if you live there long enough. But you wouldn't know that, being a typical American who KNOWS it all based on living, breathing and eating as a soft 'kano! "If you hit me I'll sue you"!!! Hahaha!
BTW if I get into a fight on the street I'm assuming homey wants to kill me. Why else would someone be oblivious enough to assault a total stranger? I will beat his **** first and ask questions when he's done and I'm safe. This liability junk comes second. I need a life in order to be charged or sued. I'll live with the consequences. Thinking any other way about self preservation is a lose-lose situation. That's how you can tell if a person has ever fought for real or in the ring. They talk all this legalese, mumbo-jumbo, and then they wrap their hands and do bag work. Pitiful.
What I do and countless millions do, real karate (2% of karate), real MAs (maybe 3% of all arts), will never die. In fact all that padded floor and hand crap is gonna die quick-fast, just like the "arts" that claim you can learn to use it to defend yourself on the street against everything from one-on-one attackers to a .50 cal machine gun, in a month. Bullsh-T! Band aids fall off eventually, just like many of these MMAs and so-called modern arts will. The traditional styles have been around for centuries and will survive through the few who know the real stuff. Just like it's always been. Real traditional MAs isn't for the average sucker. It never should be. It's privileged info and familial traditions.
You want to be a physician, a master of the human body? Ya' can't go to chiroquacktric school. Ya' gots to go to an accredited med. school, whether D.O. or M.D. (in the USA). Before that you usually gots to get a B.S./B.A. in something. No short cuts for the real or good things in life. Unless you are lucky, but that's not a good indicator of lifelong knowledge and dedication to something. Same with MAs. Remember that the word "Art" denotes a refined endeavor and a refined person. Not some Johnny-Come-Lately hope shiyit or a ring/combat sport that allows you to beat yourself up more than anyone on the street ever will. That's a different mindset and intent.
Remember evolution doesn't mean change for changes sake or patch-hole combat sports equated to real MAs. Devolution applies in most modern circumstances when it comes to fighting. We are weaker and put kids in jail or expel them for defending themselves at school, but bomb the hell out of starving civilians, and call the "accidental" muder "collateral damage". Where's the logic or the fairness? What the hell do most Americans know about hand-to-hand fighting? <crickets>. Exactly. The bell rings and the dogs salivate.
There are real karate dojo out there and real good fighters teaching in them. But they are rare, like Bentley's and Rolls'. Go do your 30 second soundbite MAs. Too much ADHD in adults nowadays. Must be all the GD fad diets. So ring fighters can no doubt fight, but I would guess their chances on the street are about as good as anyone else's. Entropy rules then and overconfidence inherent in so-called ring warriors gives chaos that upper hand. I doubt the conceit built up from false victories instills the caution and fear needed to fuel you and keep you safe when it's life-or-limb. Now if you like to fight and want to fight for fake before you fight for real, just in case the WBA wants to sanction all muggings, rapes and ambushes, then please feel free to contribute to the ignorance. It ain't hurting those of us who understand true life. Go do journeyman crap forever. Then become a multi-millionaire living off the fear and ignorance of the majority. With all the litigation here, they'll never have to use it anyway, right? Just don't dismiss what you don't have a clue about or the real martial artists out there.
Combat sports equal in efficacy and having the same intent as a good TMA?It's ridiculous, like comparing a paralegal to lawyer.
Public Enemy said it best, "DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE"!!!
If you wanna pander to bullies and know-it-alls I will not be diplomatic. I'll tell you the bare-bones truth.
Next!!!
P.S. Where do you train in BJJ hedge-hogey (do you)? I've trained with Ryron at Gracie Torrance. Met him through a friend of mine, Glenn F., who's been training privates there for years. Just wonderin'... Peace.
