wiz cool c
Orange Belt
I am an ex Bujinkan member, over a decade ago, still train but primarily in the Chinese arts. Just curious how do Toshindo members train against the treat of going up against a modern sport style grappler
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yeah i got a black belt in Bujinkan but been out of it for a least a decade. i thought maybe would have more detail on the toshindo training methods for dealing with a modern style grappler, that was a pretty generic answer you gave there. is it the standard half speed defense against a choreographed technique stuff?
Most likely, the only way to be able to reliably be able to deal with s grappler is to go train grappling. Grapplers train against skilled players regularly and when training with resistance they know the best way to avoid being taken down by a skilled grappler. Any non grappling focused system teaching grapplibg defense is only dealing in speculation.yeah i got a black belt in Bujinkan but been out of it for a least a decade. i thought maybe would have more detail on the toshindo training methods for dealing with a modern style grappler, that was a pretty generic answer you gave there. is it the standard half speed defense against a choreographed technique stuff?
Yes. Good question. The answer to your question will really depend on your answer to drop bears question.Why would you like to know?
I assume it should contain both stand up grappling and ground grappling.against a modern sport style grappler
Most likely, the only way to be able to reliably be able to deal with s grappler is to go train grappling. Grapplers train against skilled players regularly and when training with resistance they know the best way to avoid being taken down by a skilled grappler. Any non grappling focused system teaching grapplibg defense is only dealing in speculation.
Why would you like to know?
O come on that is a bujinkan type of answer. Cause it is an interesting topic and this is a martial art message board designed for talking about martial arts.im not planning on challenging anyone don’t worry I live in china and do kung fu now.
Are there any toshindo members here? Since no one can give me a clear answer I think it is safe to assume, same as bujinkan ,half speed defense against choreographed techniques
I don't know if we have any currently active members practicing Toshindo, although I think we may have in the past.
I have seen Steve Hayes teach a couple of techniques from the guard (top and bottom) and I wasn't very impressed. That's been a while, so hopefully he's figured it out better since then.
Theoretically, Toshindo shouldn't need much in the way of technique for dealing with modern sport style grapplers, because it's supposed to be focused on self-defense. You're not likely to be attacked in a dark alley by a jiu-jiteiro pulling guard on you. It makes me suspect that Steve come up with the stuff he was showing as a selling point to convince his students they could take on a MMA fighter rather than in order to address a real self-defense need.
Theoretically, Toshindo shouldn't need much in the way of technique for dealing with modern sport style grapplers, because it's supposed to be focused on self-defense. You're not likely to be attacked in a dark alley by a jiu-jiteiro pulling guard on you. It makes me suspect that Steve come up with the stuff he was showing as a selling point to convince his students they could take on a MMA fighter rather than in order to address a real self-defense need.
Hanzou I agree and disagree with what you are saying. Yes inorder to have a realistic idea of the skills of a grappler you should experience it first hand. On the other hand these guys are not training to compete in grappling competitions, but for self defense where they can use the techniques that they tain in and are all banned from competition.
I have done combo, bjj judo, and have competed in two grappling comps so have some experience in sport grappling.
I grapple on the ground, cause I'm always the one with friends. I pull guard so my friends can kick the guy on top.I am just trying to start an interesting topic here. And it has been proven again and again ? show me some videos of toshindo or ninjutsu guys in real street fights losing against grapplers. If there aren’t any it hasn’t been proven again and again, why? Cause these guys aren’t doing what they do for trophies. Self defense is totally different from competition. One time I defended myself against three bigger guys on a Manhattan corner late at night outside a bar by using a broken bottle and evasive footwork. I don’t know of any sport grappling technique that would have worked under those conditions. And I learned that strategy from my old bujinkan days.
there are so many situation where you don’t want to grapple on the ground with a guy. How about you are at a bar or night club where people usually have friends with them. Or on a subway platform. realistically every martial artist with self defense as their goal should learn some ground fighting. I would estimate about 6 to 8 months worth is sufficient. After all how many different guard passes do you need to know for a self defense situation/street fight.