To Protect and Serve?

[Sukerkin]

I stumbled across this whilst looking into the effects of Tazers and any legal issues that involve their use.

This has nothing to do with Tazers but I was so shocked (definitely no pun intended) by what I saw in this news artlcle that I had to post it up here for wider comment and opinion.

I preface this with an apology to the decent examples of officers we have here at MT as such events just make their job harder.

The behaviour here is so far off the scale of what I deem acceptable by supposed law enforcement that I, for once, hope that the victim successfully sues and that all officers involved in this incident do at least a little time where they belong. Of course, they most likely won't but they surely deserve to. If this was my missus ... well, angry words are of no help here but I'm sure the video will speak for itself:

 

[sgtmac_46]

I stumbled across this whilst looking into the effects of Tazers and any legal issues that involve their use.

This has nothing to do with Tazers but I was so shocked (definitely no pun intended) by what I saw in this news artlcle that I had to post it up here for wider comment and opinion.

I preface this with an apology to the decent examples of officers we have here at MT as such events just make their job harder.

The behaviour here is so far off the scale of what I deem acceptable by supposed law enforcement that I, for once, hope that the victim successfully sues and that all officers involved in this incident do at least a little time where they belong. Of course, they most likely won't but they surely deserve to. If this was my missus ... well, angry words are of no help here but I'm sure the video will speak for itself:

I'd comment but youtube seems to be experiencing technical difficulties......give me specifics and i'll find the video elsewhere.

 

[Sukerkin]

Hmm. The link works fine for me.

I was reluctant to use the 'embed' link as I don't know if "Law Enforcement" is one of the age 'capped' forums.

Try here:

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=82447

 

[Sukerkin]

And the eventual outcome is even more dubious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PF6_Q-6cvw&feature=related

Tonight I am very glad that I do not live in America where such things are allowed to happen and then swept under the carpet.

Boy, do the British police look good in comparison.

Again, I know full well that the good officers here at MT are likely to have professional comments in support of their fellows seemingly acting within policy. However, imagine your wife going through this and imagine how you would feel.

My point in this is not necessarily castigation of those involved but of a law enforcement system that inherently treats generally decent people that fall under it's claws as the most vile of criminals. Police clearly need some latitiude of action if they are to perform their duties but they also need to have some sense.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Hmm. The link works fine for me.

I was reluctant to use the 'embed' link as I don't know if "Law Enforcement" is one of the age 'capped' forums.

Try here:

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=82447

I don't see the issue the way you do.....she's intoxicated, belligerent, and when you're booked in to the jail you cooperate with dressing out like an adult or like a little kid.

Also, this gals story is bogus about how this all started.....she's intoxicated, got in a fight, provided false ID to police, became belligerent with them, became belligerent with jail staff, made suicidal statements.......alcohol is a helluva drug......people who can't hold theirs shouldn't drink.

 

[sgtmac_46]

And the eventual outcome is even more dubious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PF6_Q-6cvw&feature=related

Tonight I am very glad that I do not live in America where such things are allowed to happen and then swept under the carpet.

Boy, do the British police look good in comparison.

Again, I know full well that the good officers here at MT are likely to have professional comments in support of their fellows seemingly acting within policy. However, imagine your wife going through this and imagine how you would feel.

My point in this is not necessarily castigation of those involved but of a law enforecement system that inherently treats generally decent people that fall under it's claws as the most vile of criminals. Police clearly need some latitiude of action if they are to perform their duties but they also need to have some sense.

Okay, now you're getting silly.....no body swept this under the rug!

It went to a grand jury......a CIVILIAN grand jury that cleared the deputies with more facts than you or I have!

Here's a hint.....don't confuse cherry picked media versions with being the WHOLE story.

 

[Sukerkin]

As I implied, I believe we have different cultural expectations of what the police will do under certain circumstances.

If you're happy with that sort of thing going on, then I'm not going to to criticise you for it within your own cultural context.

Perhaps you have access to more details about the case then the emotive video's I found? From what I saw and heard, the ameliorating details you mention are not present; indeed, it was stated that footage was withheld, which makes for suspicion rather than understanding.

EDIT: Yes, you're right, "Swept under the carpet" was not the right phrase to use.

 

[sgtmac_46]

As I implied, I believe we have different cultural expectations of what the police will do under certain circumstances.

If you're happy with that sort of thing going on, then I'm not going to to criticise you for it within your own cultural context.

Perhaps you have access to more details about the case then the emotive video's I found? From what I saw and heard, the ameliorating details you mention are not present; indeed, it was stated that footage was withheld, which makes for suspicion rather than understanding.

EDIT: Yes, you're right, "Swept under the carpet" was not the right phrase to use.

There is plenty of details present you aren't seeing simply because you don't deal with these type situations 100 times a week....I do.....for example they don't admit she is drunk, but she is obviously so.....here version is a self-serving version of what happened.

Everyone that is brought in to jail is not treated like this...most are cooperative and treated accordingly......her combative behavior created this situation....she had a choice of easy or hard......she chose hard.......I know you don't have experience controlling violent, belligerent and intoxicated individuals for a living, but that is what she was.......and once she was incarcerated, she follows the jail rules....because being in jail is not a voluntary only activity.

Moreover, jail staff doesn't have the option of saying 'Oh, well, you don't want to be here and cooperate, so......I guess you don't have to!'.....they are obligated to enforce good order and discipline by force if necessary.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I understand how these situations look.....often bad.....but many times that doesn't mean 'wrong'.......lawful force in the real world is rarely pretty.....it's often ugly an chaotic.

As to the issue of American society and such things, the perception is that we are worse than most.....but ironically that perception is built on the reality that we are the most transparent society on the planet!

 

[MA-Caver]

I don't see the issue the way you do.....she's intoxicated, belligerent, and when you're booked in to the jail you cooperate with dressing out like an adult or like a little kid.

Also, this gals story is bogus about how this all started.....she's intoxicated, got in a fight, provided false ID to police, became belligerent with them, became belligerent with jail staff, made suicidal statements.......alcohol is a helluva drug......people who can't hold theirs shouldn't drink.

Sarge, I'm sorry but NOWHERE in the article or video is there an indication that the woman was under the influence. Surely that would've come out somewhere and reported by LEO's involved.

There is admitted violation of policy that males were involved in a female strip search. Surely those two female officers in the video were capable of handling that woman and possibly even a third if the woman was "not being cooperative".
But either way the treatment is outrageous it's deplorable and horrendous. It is an abuse of power(s) and hopefully will be taken care of accordingly.

You should know that I too have a respect for the LEOs on this forum and where I live and for the rest of the nation. But that old cliche' of "good cop - bad cop" certainly holds true. There are bad cops out there just are bad people/citizens. Not too long ago a deeply respected county sheriff in my area was arrested on money laundering, extortion, misappropriation of funds, and assorted larceny... roughly over 20 counts. He'd been doing it for years... so there's no such thing as all cops are good. Thankfully at least in my personal experience they've all been good as far as the ones I've encountered... thus far.

There will be more to this story and as the newscast stated more video. Final judgement should be reserved until the full story is known.

 

[Archangel M]

http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=433316&r=0&Category=15&subCategoryID=0

His in-cruiser video system wasn't activated. What we know of the incident comes from Gurlea's description of the arrest in a written report and testimony from witnesses at Steffey's criminal trial on charges of disorderly conduct and resisting arrest.

Steffey appeared to be highly intoxicated, Gurlea said. Other witnesses said she had been drinking, and at trial she admitted to having five beers over the course of several hours that day in addition to her prescription anti-depressant medication. Steffey also said at trial that her cousin knocked her unconscious, suggesting that a concussion might have influenced her behavior.

The nurse asked Steffey if she ever had thought about harming herself.

"Sure, I have," Steffey responded, according to an audio recording enhanced for clarity by the state but still difficult to hear.

"When was the last time you thought about harming yourself in any way?"

"Well, right now's a good time."

Jail policy mandated that a prisoner's clothes and personal belongings be removed as part of suicide precautions. Generally, an inmate got a quilted, tear-resistant "precaution suit," unless the medical or mental-health staff decided against the suit and left the inmate naked.

Most willingly take off their clothes, Swanson said.

Steffey was one of 18 women that month, and 634 inmates that year — a fourth of them women — placed on suicide precautions at the jail, records show.

Deputies documented the incident with a written report and on video.

Four days after her arrest, Steffey filed a complaint against Gurlea, saying he used excessive force.

According to a report by Sgt. Ron Perdue, he interviewed Steffey and she admitted to being highly intoxicated and resisting arrest. Perdue also talked to Gurlea and declared Steffey's complaint unfounded.

"It is certainly not for this agency to determine whether or not there are civil violations involved in the matter at hand," she wrote. "However, it can not be emphasized enough that whatever else transpired, this incident can not be accurately or appropriately categorized as a strip-search."

State law allows strip-searches, but only in certain situations and requires those performing the search be the same sex as the suspect.

As for the use of male deputies to restrain Steffey as female deputies removed her clothing, Palmer wrote "... the safety of an inmate and/or other inmates and jail staff clearly supersedes all concessions to modesty, especially in the medical area of corrections."

Take a look at the videos on this site too..they are illuminating.

 

[Brian King]

MA-Caver wrote:

“There is admitted violation of policy that males were involved in a female strip search.”

I didn’t catch that I heard in the video that it was a suicide prevention with in my opinion by what I can hear and see, a violent uncooperative irrational subject which is a very different matter and very dangerous for both the police and the suicidal subject.

Sukerkin wrote:

“As I implied, I believe we have different cultural expectations of what the police will do under certain circumstances.

If you're happy with that sort of thing going on, then I'm not going to to criticise you for it within your own cultural context.”

As ugly as the situation is (and there have been uglier) and as much as the conflicts effect all who are involved I give thanks to God every time I hear about or see this type of situation. Our ugly is out in the open and able to viewed by all involved, our police forces are some of the best trained in the world and try to deal with these situations in the most professional manner as able, and our citizens while often cooperative are also often not so. We have always been a nation of resisters (as I do not have to remind you LOL) and it almost goes with out saying that almost all give thought to resistance. Authority is often rejected out of hand by even the meekest amongst us. Sure it makes ugly video, makes the policing careers much more unpleasant, and makes the politicians uneasy but it is that instinct that has made America the super power that it is. Stubborn pride, the will to fight even when the odds are against victory and the enjoyment of fighting at the drop of a hat and the willingness to drop that hat are virtues admired over here. Luckily most of our citizens also have some common sense and a willingness to get along for the most part especially when dealing with the police and the judicial system and are able to control the urge to resist. Yup sir, I am satisfied and happy to live where I do and with my fellow citizen’s both the law enforcers and the law breakers.

Warmest regards
Brian King

 

[kyosa]

I'm not fully aware of all the facts in this case but I do know this; if you are suicidal or give the impression or state that you are suicidal jail staff will do everything in their power to make sure you do not commit suicide in their jail. If someone states they are suicidal or tries to commit suicide and the jail staff does nothing they get they're butts sued in a big way. Typically this includes strip searching you and placing you in a suicide smock and a "suicide proof cell."

I am unsure of the time frame of this event and not sure if this jail had suicide smocks-but currently most jails in the united states will strip search even non-sentenced individuals if they indicate they are suicidal. Currently most jails change them out into a suicide smock or at least offer them a suicide smock which is clothing that they cant use to hang themselves with. If they refuse to strip their cloths off or change out into the suicide smock what do you think the jail staff are going to do? Ok we will leave you with your cloths which you can hang yourself with and if we missed anything in the pat search oh well have a nice day and hopefully you dont kill yourself and your family doesn't sue us for everything they can cause our job was to keep you alive until you got released from custody and we didn't keep you alive? It's a no win situation for the jail staff and a win-win situation for the damn lawyers which helped create this mess in the first place.

BTW what do you have if you have 100 lawyers burried up to their necks in sand? Not enough sand! Sorry no offence to the lawyers I have actually med (edited met sorry typo has been a long day) 2 lawyers who were decent, almost human beings!

 

[jks9199]

There is admitted violation of policy that males were involved in a female strip search. Surely those two female officers in the video were capable of handling that woman and possibly even a third if the woman was "not being cooperative".
But either way the treatment is outrageous it's deplorable and horrendous. It is an abuse of power(s) and hopefully will be taken care of accordingly.

I recall this entire incident being brought up previously; I'm not sure if it was here or in a law enforcement forum. I don't recall anything about the actions violating policy. Simple reality: The correctional officers or deputies have tasks they must accomplish. Generally, a strip search will be conducted by members of the same sex whenever possible -- but it doesn't have to be. There are procedures and processes for conducting a strip search without a member of the same sex. It's quite clear that the woman was not cooperating; all she had to do was cooperate until such a time as she could file a complaint. As Sun Tzu wrote, it's all about knowing when to fight and when not to fight.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Sarge, I'm sorry but NOWHERE in the article or video is there an indication that the woman was under the influence. Surely that would've come out somewhere and reported by LEO's involved.

There is admitted violation of policy that males were involved in a female strip search. Surely those two female officers in the video were capable of handling that woman and possibly even a third if the woman was "not being cooperative".
But either way the treatment is outrageous it's deplorable and horrendous. It is an abuse of power(s) and hopefully will be taken care of accordingly.

You should know that I too have a respect for the LEOs on this forum and where I live and for the rest of the nation. But that old cliche' of "good cop - bad cop" certainly holds true. There are bad cops out there just are bad people/citizens. Not too long ago a deeply respected county sheriff in my area was arrested on money laundering, extortion, misappropriation of funds, and assorted larceny... roughly over 20 counts. He'd been doing it for years... so there's no such thing as all cops are good. Thankfully at least in my personal experience they've all been good as far as the ones I've encountered... thus far.

There will be more to this story and as the newscast stated more video. Final judgement should be reserved until the full story is known.

First of all, it wasn't a strip search.....the Grand Jury concluded that it was exactly what the staff claimed it was......she had made suicidal statements, and per Jail rules suicidal inmates are stripped of personal clothing and placed in isolation to prevent them from harming themselves.

And the evidence of her intoxication was quite well documented.

She created this incident herself......according to the report and trial cited by Archangel (which I wasn't aware of, I was just going off the same information you had....and rightly in my case) the officer and others at the scene viewed her as intoxicated and impaired.....she admitted drinking at least 5 beers, while simultaneously taking anti-depressants.......which are actually depressants of the same category as alcohol......and INTENSIFY alcohols effects, turning those 5 beers into the equivalent of 10 or 15 or 20.......anti-depressants taken on top of alcohol vastly intensify the effects of alcohol........she was a threat to herself and others, as evidenced by the fact that she got in to a fight, then when reporting it to the police, she convinces THEM that she needs to be taken in to protective custody.

Further, all the kicking and screaming that looked so bad in the video.....is REALLY evidence supporting their claim that she was belligerent, intoxicated and uncooperative.

The final story IS known.....the Civilian Grand Jury declared it perfectly righteous with no charges to follow.

This was a woman who, through here own actions, was chemically impaired, belligerent, violent and uncooperative.....she made suicidal statements, and decided she wanted to physically fight jail staff's REASONABLE attempts to protect her from herself......male staff was involved because 2 FEMALE JAILERS was NOT ENOUGH!

 

[sgtmac_46]

I'm not fully aware of all the facts in this case but I do know this; if you are suicidal or give the impression or state that you are suicidal jail staff will do everything in their power to make sure you do not commit suicide in their jail. If someone states they are suicidal or tries to commit suicide and the jail staff does nothing they get they're butts sued in a big way. Typically this includes strip searching you and placing you in a suicide smock and a "suicide proof cell."

I am unsure of the time frame of this event and not sure if this jail had suicide smocks-but currently most jails in the united states will strip search even non-sentenced individuals if they indicate they are suicidal. Currently most jails change them out into a suicide smock or at least offer them a suicide smock which is clothing that they cant use to hang themselves with. If they refuse to strip their cloths off or change out into the suicide smock what do you think the jail staff are going to do? Ok we will leave you with your cloths which you can hang yourself with and if we missed anything in the pat search oh well have a nice day and hopefully you dont kill yourself and your family doesn't sue us for everything they can cause our job was to keep you alive until you got released from custody and we didn't keep you alive? It's a no win situation for the jail staff and a win-win situation for the damn lawyers which helped create this mess in the first place.

BTW what do you have if you have 100 lawyers burried up to their necks in sand? Not enough sand! Sorry no offence to the lawyers I have actually med (edited met sorry typo has been a long day) 2 lawyers who were decent, almost human beings!

EXACTLY! And when that combative suicidal subject is a female, you still have to perform those actions with the staff you have....not what you should have in a perfect world. If you have to secure that person and take their clothes, and you lack the female staff to do it, it STILL has to be done.

 

[sgtmac_46]

This woman's argument is that she was 'embarrassed and humiliated'........the embarrassment and humiliation was brought on by her own careless and irresponsible use of mind-altering chemicals that forced the police to take her in to protective custody......and then forced them to put her on SUICIDE WATCH........then forced them to fight her in to the isolation cell!

She created this situation, she chose to use mind-altering controlled substances for recreational use, and she chose to throw a world-class temper tantrum at the jail that forced the staff to dress her out like a LITTLE CHILD THROWING A FIT! If she wanted to be treated like an adult, she should have acted like one.

If I had a dime for every Mrs. Steffey i've met on a Friday or Saturday night cooked to the gills and as belligerent as a rabid wolverine......she'll scratch, claw, bite, call you everything but a human being, and then on her makeup, do her hair just right, and come in Monday morning to tell the Chief and the City Counsil how you abused her when you arrested her for DWI for parking her car through the front door of one the local Convenience Store because she was way too drunk and high on Xanex to drive!

She's usually the wife of some local businessman or politician who believes she should be above the law because of who she married.

I remember arresting a gal just like this once for assaulting a local clerk at a motel.......she was some big-wig administrator in the state school system at the state capitol.....a fact she kept reminding me of to no end while explain how she would have my job, interlaced amongst the other profanity and threats.



Believe Ms. Steffey? No, I don't believe her a bit.....and I know EXACTLY what was really going on that was only partially captured by those snippets of video that we saw......and it ain't what she said.

 

[Jade Tigress]

http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=433316&r=0&Category=15&subCategoryID=0

The video was hard to watch and I initially took it at face value. The above linked article was quite enlightening though. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Archangel M]

The video was hard to watch and I initially took it at face value. The above linked article was quite enlightening though. Thanks for posting it.

Nobody seems interested in video #1 in my link which gives a better picture of the subjects demeanor on the way into the station. The one that makes the LEO's look like the bad guys is what everybody seems to want to believe without seeing the whole picture. SgtMacs last post is dead on about these "poor abused houswives" the media likes to trot out.

 

[Sukerkin]

Aye, the extra information does make a world of difference in terms of interpretation.

I still am of the opinion that I would be appalled if my missus was put through such treatment but it does put a less tainted light on the officers to learn that Mrs. Steffey's behaviour was warped by five beers, anti-depressants and a concussion.

Even reasonable, ordinary people can behave very unreasonably at times and the original news reports I saw did not make clear at all the things that have been brought up above. The most salient being that thoughts of self-harm were expressed quite directly.

I can understand officers not wanting to end up with a suicide victim on their hands and can see how things would escalate from there.

It doesn't make it right in my eyes, even now in the light of day when I've slept and therefore not so apt to respond as emotionally as I am at three in the morning. But, as I said before, I live in a different country, under different laws, so I can't really judge; especially if the citizenry who do live in that cultural context are not unduly disturbed by such actions.