TKD and Christianity

[YoungMan]

Traditional Taekwondo incorporates aspects of Eastern philosophy (respect for life, non-violence unless your safety is threatened, respect to seniors, Um/Yang), but it is not a religion and should not be married to religion. Instructors who try to use Taekwondo to promote a particular religion are way off base and do themselves and the art a disservice.
The concept of adding Oriental philosophy to Korean martial arts goes back 1500 years when Won Kwang developed the 5 Point Code of ethics to for the Hwa Rang. Modern Taekwondo has always incorporated philosophy into it, to temper the power and potential ability to hurt and kill with respect for humanity.

 

[punisher73]

Okinawan karate was concerned with one thing and one thing only and that was to disable your attacker as quickly as possible. It wasn't until karate was exported to Japan that the "Way of...." got added onto it. The arts became more concerned with japaese ideals of character development (translation: how to make good obeying soldiers) and doing everything the "right way" (translation: good soldiers all doing the same thing).

If you look at the training in Japan during the early karate years it would set up more along the lines of military training to prepare young men for service in the empire. Okinawan training originally favored the relationship between the student and teacher, so each student would learn a little different based on his build etc.

Do your research, and find out what the teacher teaches or believes. While many arts may have a spiritual component it is not required for the student to accept that to advance (aikido comes to mind), there are other arts that belief in it is a requirement, I remember reading about a branch of silat that requires practicioners to channel the spirits to be taught new things. For the most part though, I think teachers leave the religious part of it up to the student and may talk about philosophy which sometimes borders on a religious aspect.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Hi Gang, does TKD have any eastern religion attached to it. I have been looking into different Traditional Martial Arts, and the instructor I have been talking with, does have a lot of eastern religion teachings in his Chinese style of martial art, as well as internal development and healing. From what I have seen so far, TKD seems non-religious, it appears to promote clean ethics, but not religion. thanks in advance for any help.

The tenets of taekwondo are very generic and mesh very well with Christianity, and indeed, with most other religions.

There are expressly Christian taekwondo schools, just as I imagine that there are expressly Budhist taekwondo schools, though I've never practiced in either. My GM is Christian, but aside from knowing that from general conversation with him, it isn't part of the curriculum. All of the schools that I have been a part of are areligious.

Daniel

 

[MBuzzy]

Just my $0.02 (probably worth much less)....

My biggest caution would be to not "impose" religion into the schools that you go to. In today's world, I think that you would be very hard pressed to actually find a TKD school that was eastern religion based - or even brought it up. In fact, you may have an equally hard time finding a Japanese or even Chinese school that is religion based. Unless they specifically, "The Buddha says...." or something to that effect....it is probably not related to religion, just something that we happen to associate (wrongly) with Eastern religions, instead of simply "Eastern thinking and ways of doing things"

I have heard many who associate certain practices with religion, where there isn't necessarily an association. Bowing or kneeling for example, is only a sign of respect and has nothing to do with religion. You mentioned Internal Development and Healing....many of those things are not religious. They may be sometimes taught in a religious context, but in many cases, have nothing to do with religion. Acupuncture, eastern massage, even the idea of Chi/Ki is all based in science, not religion. The idea of internal power or chi is more than anything a visualization method and a way of teaching people to channel their energy. It just ties something that you already have to an abstract concept that can be visualized.

Also, a good deal of Korea is Christian now anyway.....so if it was an issue, I'm sure that TKD would not be the national sport!

 

[phatbway]

I would rather not go to a Dojo to hear about, or be taught "religion' or 'christianity". i go there to learn to defend my self and protect my loved ones.

the end.

 

[exile]

I would rather not go to a Dojo to hear about, or be taught "religion' or 'christianity". i go there to learn to defend my self and protect my loved ones.

the end.

Totally reasonable, and I suspect that that's the view of most people who seek out MA training. It's a (very) useful skill, period. Anything more that someone wants to add... well, exactly the same thing could probably be added to learning the violin, or downhill skiing.

But it would be an add-on, not something inherent in the activity itself.

 

[IcemanSK]

Totally reasonable, and I suspect that that's the view of most people who seek out MA training. It's a (very) useful skill, period. Anything more that someone wants to add... well, exactly the same thing could probably be added to learning the violin, or downhill skiing.

But it would be an add-on, not something inherent in the activity itself.

You are quite right about it being an "add-on" to how most folks teach. There are folks who want an MA program based around their shared faith for a variety of reasons (Fear/discomfort/misunderstanding of what "Eastern Philosophy" might entail,) is a big one for some.

I currently teach a "secular" TKD program in my church. At other churches, I might teach class that adds prayer & study that connects Christian principles with the tenents of TKD. For some, this type of class would be helpful. For others, it would be a hindurance to the experience. Heck, for some Koreans who now live in the US, it's merely a way to connect their kids to their culture. There are many reasons why folks train where & how they do.

 

[zDom]

I prefer a "separation of Martial Arts and Religion" myself

 

[Mimir]

Like what many others have said, this really depends on the school. There are many TKD schools that are Christian oriented, just as there are others that like to add eastern religon to the mix. Find a place that you are comfortable with and have fun!

 

[YoungMan]

Learning Taekwondo without the philosophy that shapes it would be like learning how to use a firearm without being taught respect for human life and responsibility.
You don't need to practice any particular religion to do Taekwondo, but you should absolutely be respectful of the philosophies that are a part of it. Otherwise you run the risk of becoming a thug.

 

[exile]

Learning Taekwondo without the philosophy that shapes it would be like learning how to use a firearm without being taught respect for human life and responsibility.
You don't need to practice any particular religion to do Taekwondo, but you should absolutely be respectful of the philosophies that are a part of it. Otherwise you run the risk of becoming a thug.

This I don't understand. Most people I know come to the study of the martial arts with an ethical world view that other people would regard as perfectly fine. They already know about 'respect for human life and responsibility', as part of how they were raised, their experience of life with other people and so on. When they learn a martial art, TKD or anything else, the same things that constrain them in the use of violence in other areas constrain them in their use of the MA they've learned.

Think of it this way: does your education in the morality of violence begin with your introduction to firearms? As many people on MT point out, the vast majority of gun owners do not use their weapons to inflict damage on the innocent. Did they only learn that principle when they applied for their gun license? Or was it part of their ethical makeup from early on? What you learn when you're introduced to a weapon is safety procedure and due care and caution; but the ethical foundations themselves... those, you'd better already have. Are you going to learn the Golden Rule or whatever from your firearms instructor?

I think it's the same with the MAs. You aren't going to be learning fundamental ethics only at the point where you start doing TKD, karate, hapkido or whatever; if you are, you've been in biiiiig trouble for all of your life before then. I can think of a hundred people I know who might, at one point or another, decide to take up TKD, and not one of them needs any more ethical training to be a decent person and a responsible exponent of that or any other MA than they already have. If you wait to get your ethics from your MA instructor, it's WAY too late in the game, IMO. And if you don't have a fundamentally decent way of dealing with other people by that point, are you really going to acquire one in a TKD class?

 

[Cirdan]

Learning Taekwondo without the philosophy that shapes it would be like learning how to use a firearm without being taught respect for human life and responsibility.
You don't need to practice any particular religion to do Taekwondo, but you should absolutely be respectful of the philosophies that are a part of it. Otherwise you run the risk of becoming a thug.

You do not "risk" becoming a thug. It is a choise. Having an atmosphere of respect in the club is as far as it goes.

 

[Marginal]

One of our instructors is a 5th Dan and is also a Christian Preacher so he doesn't seem to mind. To echo some of the things that have already been said, I have not seen or heard any religion being pushed in TKD. Yes we do sit quietly for a few minutes after a 2 minute break. They call it meditation, I call it time to get my breath back.

Now for my 2 cents...
There is no such thing as "forbidden knowledge" and I would take a close look at anyone or anything that tells you not to learn something. Knowledge never killed anyone, it is what you do, not know, that causes all the problems. Learn about other religions and other cultures, it will help you understand your own a whole lot better. You will get a new appreciation for people, cultures and lives when you can understand how they think and what they believe.

If one's faith is so flimsy that hearing about another religion or philosophy shatters it, it wasn't a faith worth mentioning in the first place.

 

[FearlessFreep]

If one's faith is so flimsy that hearing about another religion or philosophy shatters it, it wasn't a faith worth mentioning in the first place.

I don't think that's really an issue..

If you were not a vegetarian but attended a school where the head instructor was a vegetarian and regularly talked about the importance of a vegetarian diet to develop the proper body to be successful at TKD, you may not be tempted to become a vegetarian, but it would be distracting and get pretty wearisome.

 

[MBuzzy]

I don't think that's really an issue..

If you were not a vegetarian but attended a school where the head instructor was a vegetarian and regularly talked about the importance of a vegetarian diet to develop the proper body to be successful at TKD, you may not be tempted to become a vegetarian, but it would be distracting and get pretty wearisome.

Although Marginal makes an excellent point, you're right, generally people don't like to hear opinions that are in contradiction to their own. Especially in the cases of Politics and religion. Particularly in Religion, it is one of those things, where if you're wrong, it can have huge consequences for some people - and if you believe something, generally you don't want to attend a school where an opposing belief is taught regularly.

Why aren't there more vegetarians? Because of the social influence and extreme control that it takes. It takes a very very strong person to hold a belief like that and persist in the face of literally everyone around them who doesn't practice it or share it.

But with all of that said....if you really do believe something, it shouldn't matter what those around you say.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Learning Taekwondo without the philosophy that shapes it would be like learning how to use a firearm without being taught respect for human life and responsibility.
You don't need to practice any particular religion to do Taekwondo, but you should absolutely be respectful of the philosophies that are a part of it. Otherwise you run the risk of becoming a thug.

Youngman,

I was a gun owner and competiton shot before I even got into TKD in college. Before TKD I was known as a nice guy (uncoordinated nice guy, but still a nice guy.)

I do like the fact that most martial arts at least pay lip service to their 'tennets' or 'oaths' or whatever, even Krav Maga has such, but there are pleny of creeps and thugs that would take some of the classes and just mumble the words. And some martial arts don't mess around with the 'art' so much and emphasis the 'martial' and thus the lessons can be learned fast.

But even I supect some of martial arts have their oaths and tennets just to keep the public and law at bay.

One has better have a good grounding in their moral world, as well as physiological world, before they spend time in a martal art. They will learn (hopefully) respect, perseverance, humility, and displine, but right or wrong has better have been already learned.

Deaf

 

[YoungMan]

If you take the philosophy out of Taekwondo and martial arts you have UFC.
Keep in mind, Taekwondo philosophy has from the beginning dictated how its students are to act. Why is this important? Because there are many people, especially those from questionable backgrounds (dysfunctional families etc.) who weren't raised with a moral code. One of my colleagues has many students like this. Often, Taekwondo philosophy has been the only real morality they've been exposed to.

 

[Ninjamom]

And what philosophy is that?


I have been in many different TKD schools, all of which might have some common 'dojang rules', but these are no more enforced than making sure people take their shoes off and bow at the appropriate times. As far as morality, TKD (like football, or baseball, or swim team, or the chess club) shows through experience that diligence and hard work are good and pay dividends. Like any other difficult, challenging activity, it provides a goal, and as a result, provides positive self esteem when the goal is met.

I must ask if your school teaches the code of the Hwa Rang for ethics. Mine doesn't. We don't learn what the five principles of TKD are (courtesy, integrity, perseverence, self control, indomitable spirit) until blue or brown belt. We recite 10 principles every class, and each belt test includes a one-sentence definition of one of these principles (strong spirit, effort, patience, attitude, self confidence, respect, mind control, honesty, loyalty, victory), but they are pretty generic.

I maintain that all moral, philosophical, and/or religious content in TKD is at the discretion of the individual school, and not a required part of TKD.

 

[Marginal]

I don't think that's really an issue..

If you were not a vegetarian but attended a school where the head instructor was a vegetarian and regularly talked about the importance of a vegetarian diet to develop the proper body to be successful at TKD, you may not be tempted to become a vegetarian, but it would be distracting and get pretty wearisome.

Perhaps, but how many TKD classes spent a lot of time on Voodoo etc? You get people freaking out because they might have to bow before they step on the floor. Or bellowing about having only one master when told to use the therm "master" in reference to an instructor etc.

These people are flakes. Not people with a deep, credible faith.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Perhaps, but how many TKD classes spent a lot of time on Voodoo etc? You get people freaking out because they might have to bow before they step on the floor. Or bellowing about having only one master when told to use the therm "master" in reference to an instructor etc.

Thankfully, I've never encountered any in a martial arts setting, though I know that they're out there.

These people are flakes. Not people with a deep, credible faith.

Flakes can have deep, credible faith and still be flakes... unfortunately.

Daniel