Gerry Seymour

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I'm posting this here, because my primary art (Nihon Goshin Aikido) has more in common with Jujutsu and Judo than Ueshiba's Aikido. We primarily use Judo falls (nearly identical to those I learned in Judo in the 1980's), and have Judo-style throws (from clinch, etc.) that don't seem to show up in Aikido. That said, I'd be interested in hearing from Aikido folks, as well.

I've been pondering mats lately. I came up through the ranks in Nihon Goshin Aikido training on a couple of different types. Early on, it was the folding gymnastics mats. Later (and for the longest period) it was the tatami-look mats that Swain and Zebra make (the 2" grappling mats). I always liked those. The surface firmness of the tatami-style mats makes for better footing, and I like them pretty well for falls. The mats I use now (provided by the rec center I teach at) are a bit firmer on top for rolls, but reasonably similar for falls.

For a while I used some cheaper mats I purchased. They are 2", and fairly soft. Harder to move well on, and softer for falls and rolls.

As I age, and as I see adults learning the art (and taking their falls, which are more punishing early on, until you get better at them), I see more benefit in softer mats. I know a couple of instructors who advocate some version of sprung floor, to reduce the felt impact.

So, my question is this: have you ever been on a flooring/mat combo that you really liked? If so, what was it? What would you put in if you had the choice?
 

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I'm posting this here, because my primary art (Nihon Goshin Aikido) has more in common with Jujutsu and Judo than Ueshiba's Aikido. We primarily use Judo falls (nearly identical to those I learned in Judo in the 1980's), and have Judo-style throws (from clinch, etc.) that don't seem to show up in Aikido. That said, I'd be interested in hearing from Aikido folks, as well.

I've been pondering mats lately. I came up through the ranks in Nihon Goshin Aikido training on a couple of different types. Early on, it was the folding gymnastics mats. Later (and for the longest period) it was the tatami-look mats that Swain and Zebra make (the 2" grappling mats). I always liked those. The surface firmness of the tatami-style mats makes for better footing, and I like them pretty well for falls. The mats I use now (provided by the rec center I teach at) are a bit firmer on top for rolls, but reasonably similar for falls.

For a while I used some cheaper mats I purchased. They are 2", and fairly soft. Harder to move well on, and softer for falls and rolls.

As I age, and as I see adults learning the art (and taking their falls, which are more punishing early on, until you get better at them), I see more benefit in softer mats. I know a couple of instructors who advocate some version of sprung floor, to reduce the felt impact.

So, my question is this: have you ever been on a flooring/mat combo that you really liked? If so, what was it? What would you put in if you had the choice?
The tatami style, firmer zebra mats are much better for what we do. The softer mats (such as wrestling mats) are fine, but you're much more likely to catch a toe on them. My little toes look like Vienna sausages they were broken so many times when I first started. Once we moved to a new space and away from the wrestling mats, I never broke another toe. The only disadvantage is that mat burns are more likely on the tatami styles. but I'd rather have a mat burn than a broken toe any day.
 
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Gerry Seymour

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The tatami style, firmer zebra mats are much better for what we do. The softer mats (such as wrestling mats) are fine, but you're much more likely to catch a toe on them. My little toes look like Vienna sausages they were broken so many times when I first started. Once we moved to a new space and away from the wrestling mats, I never broke another toe. The only disadvantage is that mat burns are more likely on the tatami styles. but I'd rather have a mat burn than a broken toe any day.
You guys don't do much hard falling, do you (I assume you're talking about BJJ, though I may have forgotten other training you do)? I ask because I MUCH prefer a firm mat for softer falls and the shorter (even sometimes hard) falls from kneeling distance, and a bit less for harder falls. That said, I don't really mind the firmer mats even on things like shoulder throws and high hip throws, but that may simply be because it's what I'm used to.

EDIT: Oh, and I definitely agree about the mat burns. I've gotten a few hundred, and they heal pretty fast. Take those over a real injury any day.
 

Buka

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Mats are the most difficult thing to provide when opening a dojo. The damn mat companies seem to stick together and keep their prices expensive. Good mats, especially covering a fairly large area, are a tough nut to crack. I suppose cheap mats are an alternative, but I hate cheap mats, really can't do a lot with them.
 
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Mats are the most difficult thing to provide when opening a dojo. The damn mat companies seem to stick together and keep their prices expensive. Good mats, especially covering a fairly large area, are a tough nut to crack. I suppose cheap mats are an alternative, but I hate cheap mats, really can't do a lot with them.
I found some cheap mats that served well for about a year. I still break some of them out when we're doing hip throws and such, and toss them on top of the regular mats. They are soft and gushy, yet don't let me penetrate (feel the ground) on hard falls. Much better than I expected for the price, but still not nearly as good as a good mat (which is more than 4 times the price). I'd love to know what the margin is on those nice mats.
 

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The floor at my place is a "sprung floor," in design but not material. It's a design I heard someone call "The Denver Floor" before, but I have no idea why.

The way it's made is you lay out an array of 4'x8' particle board sheets, and adhere foam blocks (we used 3'x3'x4' ones) stuck to the "underside" of the particle board (usually the 3/4" thickness, with the foam block "side" now oriented Down. You lay out the floor completely with this arrangement. Then, using similar 4'x8' sheets of either 1/2" or 3/8" sheets, but arranged in the opposite pattern on top of the thicker bottom underlayment sheets (witht he foam) to create the "floating floor" aspect, securing these only at the ends to the next set, with overlapping links so as to not bind up upon impact.

Then, when all of that is done, you put some sort of foam topper on it (this is where your "feel" for what type of surface you want can be customized, I personally like a good, solid surface for quick movement of feet and to hold people up so they don't damage ankles), and the last thing is the very top, which can be either a canvas (my favorite but pretty expensive) or vinyl.

Shoot me a PM and I can get the specifics for anyone who wants to know exactly how to put one of these floors together, including where to order the best (we've found) foam blocks.
 

Anarax

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I'm posting this here, because my primary art (Nihon Goshin Aikido) has more in common with Jujutsu and Judo than Ueshiba's Aikido. We primarily use Judo falls (nearly identical to those I learned in Judo in the 1980's), and have Judo-style throws (from clinch, etc.) that don't seem to show up in Aikido. That said, I'd be interested in hearing from Aikido folks, as well.

I've been pondering mats lately. I came up through the ranks in Nihon Goshin Aikido training on a couple of different types. Early on, it was the folding gymnastics mats. Later (and for the longest period) it was the tatami-look mats that Swain and Zebra make (the 2" grappling mats). I always liked those. The surface firmness of the tatami-style mats makes for better footing, and I like them pretty well for falls. The mats I use now (provided by the rec center I teach at) are a bit firmer on top for rolls, but reasonably similar for falls.

For a while I used some cheaper mats I purchased. They are 2", and fairly soft. Harder to move well on, and softer for falls and rolls.

As I age, and as I see adults learning the art (and taking their falls, which are more punishing early on, until you get better at them), I see more benefit in softer mats. I know a couple of instructors who advocate some version of sprung floor, to reduce the felt impact.

So, my question is this: have you ever been on a flooring/mat combo that you really liked? If so, what was it? What would you put in if you had the choice?

My school has changed mat types several times, we use them to spar, roll and fall on. I personally like the firmer mats, I dislike the feeling of sinking into the floor on softer mats. I understand your point on aging and the different mat firmness makes. I believe thick firmer mats provide more traction and overall support than softer ones.
 
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Gerry Seymour

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My school has changed mat types several times, we use them to spar, roll and fall on. I personally like the firmer mats, I dislike the feeling of sinking into the floor on softer mats. I understand your point on aging and the different mat firmness makes. I believe thick firmer mats provide more traction and overall support than softer ones.
Yeah, me too. That's why I'm leaning more toward the idea of a sprung floor or something like that, when I have a chance to make a choice. I love falling on soft mats, but I hate throwing on them. And sparring or any live practice is just no fun on them. My old instructor has soft mats on top of firm ones (he decided the firm ones were costing him new students). I think he would be better served with the reverse.
 

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I thought real training is in concrete or at least a wood floor. You can't train self defense in a mat.
 

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My Taekwondo school has the Tatami-style mats. We also have folding gymnastic-style mats we pull out for rolling, but they're not a whole lot softer.

I will say I do not like the puzzle mats. I got some of those to practice at home, and it was better without the mat.
 
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Gerry Seymour

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My Taekwondo school has the Tatami-style mats. We also have folding gymnastic-style mats we pull out for rolling, but they're not a whole lot softer.

I will say I do not like the puzzle mats. I got some of those to practice at home, and it was better without the mat.
I like the puzzle mats okay for light ground work (one of the rooms I've taught in had those), and they are maybe 10% better than the floor for rolls - for falls they are somehow worse than the floor. For rolls and standard falls, I like the tatami-style mats. If there's going to be a lot of high falling with intensity, I like a softer surface and sometimes just put cheap 2" gym mats on top of the regular mats.
 

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I always like to say I trained Judo throws on wood floor or even concrete for long time. It required more control (and not full speed throw) and made us aware of out-of-dojo floors. It was a bit hardcore, I recognise.

Once, on a seminar someone was put matts on the floor. When the instructor arrived, required to remove everything before starting. :)

Sorry for not really helping about matts.
 
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Gerry Seymour

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I always like to say I trained Judo throws on wood floor or even concrete for long time. It required more control (and not full speed throw) and made us aware of out-of-dojo floors. It was a bit hardcore, I recognise.

Once, on a seminar someone was put matts on the floor. When the instructor arrived, required to remove everything before starting. :)

Sorry for not really helping about matts.
I do think it's useful to train throws on harder surfaces. It's a tricky thing to do with some throws, and requires good control by both uke and nage. For me, I like firmer mats for this reason.
 

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I thought real training is in concrete or at least a wood floor. You can't train self defense in a mat.

While it's not a bad idea to do falls on a hard surface at least occasionally, it's probably not ideal to train on concrete. There's a huge difference between a few dozen falls 3-4 times a week and a couple falls period.

I like the puzzle mats for ease of placement and storage. We have the 1.5" mats sold HERE. They also have a 2" mat, if you prefer.
 
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While it's not a bad idea to do falls on a hard surface at least occasionally, it's probably not ideal to train on concrete. There's a huge difference between a few dozen falls 3-4 times a week and a couple falls period.

I like the puzzle mats for ease of placement and storage. We have the 1.5" mats sold HERE. They also have a 2" mat, if you prefer.
I've not found a puzzle mat that feels anything like as good for falls as the tatami-style (and many folks find those too firm). They seem too hard - slapping on them hurts, without even falling. Admittedly, I've only experienced 2 or 3 different ones.
 

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I've not found a puzzle mat that feels anything like as good for falls as the tatami-style (and many folks find those too firm). They seem too hard - slapping on them hurts, without even falling. Admittedly, I've only experienced 2 or 3 different ones.

Most puzzle mats are 1/2-3/4" thick. Big difference. These are specifically intended for grappling. If you're ever in Colorado, stop by and I'll toss you down on them so you can try them out. ;)
 

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I've taken throws on harder surfaces, but honestly that is not something l enjoy. I bought some 2 inch wrestling mat for my home training, and it works great. Of all the mats I have tried, including the high-end Fuji and Zebra BJJ mats, good old fashioned wrestling mats are my favorite to train on.
 

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