They don't mess around in Estonia

bostonbomber

Orange Belt
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Messages
87
Reaction score
1
Location
Boston, MA
Nice video. The part where the "victim" taps out of a choke hold then gets an elbow in the head cracks me up ;) The guy is pretty tough on his training partners.
 

Brian R. VanCise

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
27,758
Reaction score
1,518
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Yes I have seen this one before but it is always good to watch it again!
icon14.gif
 
OP
mook jong man

mook jong man

Senior Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
3,080
Reaction score
261
Location
Matsudo , Japan
Nice video. The part where the "victim" taps out of a choke hold then gets an elbow in the head cracks me up ;) The guy is pretty tough on his training partners.

Yeah i don't reckon there would be too many volunteers lining up to be his demo partner in that school .
 

naneek

Green Belt
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
179
Reaction score
2
Location
auckland new zealand
yeah he seems skilled but he obviously has very little respect for his training partners, i mean i am no expert but if i saw or experienced something like that where i train i would walk out and never come back:barf:continuing to attack a teenaged boy (how he looked to me) after he has already tapped out is pretty shady in my book.
 

kaizasosei

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
1,180
Reaction score
24
Wing Chung does have some aspects that are a bit hysterical sometimes. On one hand, it is an important aspect of combat-contiuous fire not givng the opponent the chance to recover, overwhelming him with a rapid attacking spirit. On the other hand, it does seem a little out of line sometimes, also in this case.

Being hard on students is a great way to get them to be tough really quickly, but the down side is that they usually get the wrong message and tend to repeat the example of unneccessary brutatality to the point of not really understanding the seriousness of their actions and the deep responsiblity involved in the practice of martial arts. Beating on some unresisting student is nothing compared to beating on an tough opponent in a real combat situation...nothing that great about it. Not saying i dont appreciate this teachers moves to some degree, but it's not really that impressive.

j
 
Last edited:

dungeonworks

Black Belt
Joined
May 7, 2006
Messages
540
Reaction score
18
Wing Chung does have some aspects that are a bit hysterical sometimes. On one hand, it is an important aspect of combat-contiuous fire not givng the opponent the chance to recover, overwhelming him with a rapid attacking spirit. On the other hand, it does seem a little out of line sometimes, also in this case.

Being hard on students is a great way to get them to be tough really quickly, but the down side is that they usually get the wrong message and tend to repeat the example of unneccessary brutatality to the point of not really understanding the seriousness of their actions and the deep responsiblity involved in the practice of martial arts. Beating on some unresisting student is nothing compared to beating on an tough opponent in a real combat situation...nothing that great about it. Not saying i dont appreciate this teachers moves to some degree, but it's not really that impressive.

j

Yes, I gotta agree 110%
 
OP
mook jong man

mook jong man

Senior Master
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
3,080
Reaction score
261
Location
Matsudo , Japan
Yes, I gotta agree 110%

The lack of control he shows on his student is pretty bad , but from a purely technical viewpoint i am interested in the way he has integrated eye gouges , head twisting take downs and groundfighting into the system .

I come from a classical Wing Chun background and these elements were not part of our system , i do realize that he is from the Wing Tsun system and they do things a little differently but what i am saying is that these techniques do seem to work very well from our chi sao range and might be the next step in the evolution of Wing Chun / Wing Tsun .
 

Seeker

Orange Belt
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
85
Reaction score
4
The lack of control he shows on his student is pretty bad , but from a purely technical viewpoint i am interested in the way he has integrated eye gouges , head twisting take downs and groundfighting into the system .

I come from a classical Wing Chun background and these elements were not part of our system , i do realize that he is from the Wing Tsun system and they do things a little differently but what i am saying is that these techniques do seem to work very well from our chi sao range and might be the next step in the evolution of Wing Chun / Wing Tsun .

I hope to God his students are only reacting like that for demo purposes.

I'm in a traditional school as well, it is cool to see where a few "foul" techniques could fit in.

I did a brief stint in Silat with a friend who sadly moved away, and a lot of the head twists and take-downs from that would fit very nicely in WC. Wish I had studied Silat long enough to claim any proficiency in it.
 

El_Nastro

Yellow Belt
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
50
Reaction score
2
Not impressed with that dude at all.

Gary Lam said something like "no hurt students or you no good teacher". (vid on youtube)

What was that guy trying to accomplish with that video?

If it was to impress us all with how badass he is, well, he failed. How about demonstrating on a man instead of a skinny kid?

Was it to show us how expertly refined his technique is? Once again, he failed because if he was truly skilled he should have controlled the skinny kid without all the head-kicking & stuff.

Nah....dude's nothin' to write home about.
 

krauser

White Belt
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
12
Reaction score
1
I live in Estonia and there is also a second club of WT. That's the one I go to and its part of the E.E.W.T.A. under Si-Gung Maday Norbert and Sifu Linas Gudonavicius. A demo clip from our website:
You might notice that the level of "brutality" is lower. The guy in black is our Si-Hing and my teacher. You might also notice that we are using protectors on the chest.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Eru Il繙vatar

Blue Belt
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
250
Reaction score
2
Personaly I think that kind of mindset is required in a real life-threatening situation. And that is probably what the guy wanted to demonstrate. As far as the brutality in the video goes I don't think any of the participants left with a bruise. If you look at the video again he just makes fast low power punches and kicks to demonstrate a point. I also doubt that one of his students is missing an eye today. Probably there is more demage done in an average sparring session in a Teakwondo or kickboxing club. Needless to say I liked the video. I also liked the video posted by you krauser. Indeed you don't mess around in Estonia!
 

Yoshiyahu

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,351
Reaction score
14
Location
St.Louis Missouri
Yea if you look closely He is not actually fully making power impact with his students with the punches. He uses speed to show realness but when he comes to actual contact you can tell the elbows and fist are not full blast. If they were the student body would react differently No take down would be needed because he would not be getting up.

Also Wing Chun has take downs as well as Eye Gouges(Bil Gee)

Eru Il繳vatar;1078724 said:
Personaly I think that kind of mindset is required in a real life-threatening situation. And that is probably what the guy wanted to demonstrate. As far as the brutality in the video goes I don't think any of the participants left with a bruise. If you look at the video again he just makes fast low power punches and kicks to demonstrate a point. I also doubt that one of his students is missing an eye today. Probably there is more demage done in an average sparring session in a Teakwondo or kickboxing club. Needless to say I liked the video. I also liked the video posted by you krauser. Indeed you don't mess around in Estonia!
 

geezer

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
7,108
Reaction score
3,206
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Eru Il繳vatar;1078724 said:
Personaly I think that kind of mindset is required in a real life-threatening situation. And that is probably what the guy wanted to demonstrate.

Anybody training to really use this stuff has to be serious. You have to develop that "attitude" or combat mindset. Check out clips of Emin Boztepe, Victor Gutierrez and a host of others... or my old Escrima instructor, Rene Latosa. Bruce Lee called it "emotional content".

That said, there's no excuse for brutalizing students. But how can you tell from a video? In other clips, the instructor's students seem to really be having a good time. I know when I've been in demos, I really play my role...whether as "*** kicker" or "kickee". In fact, for an old guy I'm pretty good at being the "kickee" or "punching bag". A couple of times the guy that was demonstrating on me stopped because he thought I was actually hurt! I had to apologize for over acting. I just hope the guys in the video were doing the same.
 

Yoshiyahu

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,351
Reaction score
14
Location
St.Louis Missouri
What if they were really hurt but enjoyed getting the beating...lol...thats another thing we have to take into account. Some people find it desirable to be beaten. Those are the ones you use force on when doing demostrations so it can have that real affect.


ha ha joking of course!!!


Anybody training to really use this stuff has to be serious. You have to develop that "attitude" or combat mindset. Check out clips of Emin Boztepe, Victor Gutierrez and a host of others... or my old Escrima instructor, Rene Latosa. Bruce Lee called it "emotional content".

That said, there's no excuse for brutalizing students. But how can you tell from a video? In other clips, the instructor's students seem to really be having a good time. I know when I've been in demos, I really play my role...whether as "*** kicker" or "kickee". In fact, for an old guy I'm pretty good at being the "kickee" or "punching bag". A couple of times the guy that was demonstrating on me stopped because he thought I was actually hurt! I had to apologize for over acting. I just hope the guys in the video were doing the same.
 
Top