The Security Threat That is the Homeless

[The Martialist]

This is a contentious and controversial issue; hence this seemed like the appropriate thread.

It is my assertion that the homeless -- street people in general -- represent a personal security threat as a demographic, and must be dealt with on these grounds. This is not bias, prejudice, or some sort of lack of compassion speaking; it is instead simply a recognition of reality.

I feel so strongly about the issue that I've created a PDF file that can be downloaded here, completely free. It's not linked to my main website and is not intended to promote anything; it is simply the compilation of my own experiences over more than a decade of regularly dealing with the homeless issue. I hope you find it helpful, though it is likely to spur strong debate as well.

It is not for those who are easily offended and contains mature language.

 

[LuzRD]

is this a "i hate people that fit this general description and you should to" sort of thing? or is it a more unbiased observation of actual facts?

what size is the pdf? you say that you have over a decade dealing with the homeless issue. in what capacity is your experience? is the mature language in the form of quotes, or how you express yourself?

i know that these questions could be seen as negative, however i am unclear about the details of the document and id like more information without having to download unknown files.
thank you

 

[The Martialist]

It is not an "I hate certain people document," no. It examines the statistical support for the assertion that street people, as a demographic, form an increased threat to personal security and thus should be "profiled" as such by the individual. It then explains the common ploys used by street people to con you out of your money and/or set you up for crime (in other words, precursors to assault).

The PDF file is a 72-page booklet that is just under 600Kb, not a large document by any standard.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Dear The Martial list I for one have been homeless before and living on the street is cold and ugly. Most homeless people that I have met here in Miami were not cut throats. You have a better chance of being mugged by a thug than the average homeless person. I for one am greatful that time has passed.

 

[jks9199]

Phil,
I just did a quick scan of your pamphlet. It's OK, not great. (I fully anticipate being attacked by you after this post.)

You took seventytwo pages to basically say "Some homeless people may be dangerous, either due to mental illness, or outright greed-motivated criminal violence." Congratulations.

Your "expertise" with the homeless is apparently based on running the unfortunate gauntlet that occurs on too many urban streets. You don't really support many of your arguments except by personal anecdote. A literal couple of pages where you quote from a few sources (including a decade old survey) doesn't really make your argument.

You don't really have anything impressive or new in what you've written. Yep, lots of beggars, especially aggressive panhandlers will LIE. Shockers. Guess what? I'm aware of instances where people will fake being homeless to beg.

I would also suggest that your presentation of a "high hands readiness" stance ends up being more aggressive than necessary. With slight modifications, like turning the palms outward, and keeping them both a bit more forward (instead of tucking the rear hand tight into the body) you maintain a ready posture, without the aggressive appearance. Forceful doesn't have to equal aggressive.

 

[The Martialist]

Dear The Martial list I for one have been homeless before and living on the street is cold and ugly. Most homeless people that I have met here in Miami were not cut throats. You have a better chance of being mugged by a thug than the average homeless person. I for one am greatful that time has passed.

Could you find for me some statistics related to "thugs" as a demographic, please? My booklet includes statistical data related to the homeless.

 

[The Martialist]

Phil,
You took seventytwo pages to basically say "Some homeless people may be dangerous, either due to mental illness, or outright greed-motivated criminal violence." Congratulations.

Actually, I took seventy-two pages (about ten less when you subtract facing pages and formatting) to state this, then support it with reason, statistics, and personal experience, and then I listed the common ploys one encounters when dealing with such street people -- ploys accumulated through ten years of dealing with these people on an all-too-frequent basis.

Your "expertise" with the homeless is apparently based on running the unfortunate gauntlet that occurs on too many urban streets. You don't really support many of your arguments except by personal anecdote.

I support my arguments through citing statistics and news reports (often from sources sympathetic to the homeless) and then do indeed cite the results of ten or more years of my presonal experience with them, yes.

A literal couple of pages where you quote from a few sources (including a decade old survey) doesn't really make your argument.

That "decade old survey" is part of a quote from Jim Grover. It is not cited as evidence of any assertions; it is part of his assertions, quoted for context and because I thought he was making a very valid point regardless of the numbers. I cite several contemporary resources in the course of making my arguments.

You don't really have anything impressive or new in what you've written. Yep, lots of beggars, especially aggressive panhandlers will LIE. Shockers. Guess what? I'm aware of instances where people will fake being homeless to beg...

I was not aware that one must be totally original in order to offer something of value. Your post contains nothing new, impressive, or particularly original, either. Should you not have made it?

 

[Sukerkin]

Mr. Elmore, I think you may be on a losing wicket here.

You can argue your position as vehemently and as long as you wish, of course (unless you cross the line and get yourself banned) but your reputation precedes you and thus colours everyones responses.

 

[Archangel M]

While many homeless people suffer from some form of mental illness, Id be hard pressed to believe that their propensity toward criminality or violence is statistically any more or less than a "housed" group of people. The majority of mentally ill are not violent.

 

[Logan]

Why stop at "street" people? Why not just say people in general are a threat?

 

[The Martialist]

Mr. Elmore, I think you may be on a losing wicket here.

You can argue your position as vehemently and as long as you wish, of course (unless you cross the line and get yourself banned) but your reputation precedes you and thus colours everyones responses.

The truth certainly is very upsetting to many people. It remains the truth regardless.

 

[The Last Legionary]

The truth certainly is very upsetting to many people. It remains the truth regardless.

Truth is subjective.
To hundreds of thousands, the Negro is inferior, the Jew is greedy, the Italian is slimy and the Hun is feared yet backward. To some America is the enemy, to others a Savior.
Truth my fair scribbler, is quite a different animal, to all those who claim it.

Your truth is, the homeless are dangerous. My truth is, they aren't. I don't see them 8 blocks ahead and go through evasive manoeuvres, cross the street, or start walking with my street sword hanging out, hand on scabbard and 3 musketeer hat on. I've walked dangerous streets and never had a problem.

Statistics are also a joke. 95% of them are made up, and the other 25% aren't reliable either. Sources must be considered. The MMA nuts insist that 90% of the fights go to the ground, for example. They however fail to take into consideration that those stats come from the FBI, who got them based on police reports on arrests, and since one is usually arrested face down with hands behind back, well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the data gaps there. So you data is subjective an if I felt like it I could counter it but I need lunch and that is much more important to me.

Your writings Phil are entertaining, and reveal much about you and your core beliefs. Some think you're innovative, others a ripe nutter ready for buttering. I'm in the middle. Some of your stuff has good intel, some seems rather alarmist and needlessly wordy. This piece, is the later, in my opinion.

Now if you'll excuse me, I see a guy with a tin cup walking down the street and I must duck into this phone booth to ripmy shirt off and reveal my SuperDude uniform so I can make a citizens arrest, before he lets Al Qeda into my home and sodomizes my puppy.

TaTa!

---------------------------Whooooooosh!

 

[MA-Caver]

Dear The Martial list I for one have been homeless before and living on the street is cold and ugly. Most homeless people that I have met here in Miami were not cut throats. You have a better chance of being mugged by a thug than the average homeless person. I for one am greatful that time has passed.

As I too have experienced FIRST HAND the life of the homeless for several years I have to say your expose' Phil, is nothing more than an angry, frustrated rant against people whom you resent because they've nothing better to do than to accost people who are more fortunate than they are.
This quote from the article is inaccurate.

Let’s be clear on something from the outset, too. Our popular entertainment media love to push the mythology of the down-on-his-luck average homeless Joe, somebody to whom fate has simply been cruel and who, through no fault
of his own, finds himself penniless. As we learned in the preceding section, that’s a load of crap. Most people who are homeless are homeless because they have mental or substance abuse issues.
The media also love to spread the myth of the homeless family — a poor, noble underclass eking out an existence under our overpasses and on our subway grates, desperate to make it in a cold and uncaring world. This is ridiculous and not at all borne out by the demographics of homelessness in the United States.

While the media does romanticize the homeless and the down and outs... it's not a myth. I myself have had to experience misfortune (true, most by my own making) and destitute poverty and had to "live off the government's tit" as Lt. Dan would be fond of saying.
But it's a scenario that does exist. Not all homeless are drug addled monsters waiting for the unwary victim to pounce upon and rob them of their money and life.
Many of them do have drug, alcohol problems yes. It would seem that many would prefer to stay in that miserable state and thus go the easy route and panhandle for sometimes pennies on a daily basis to get their next round of drugs and booze, rather find a full time job, there are many who go to the daily labor employment offices to work a full day doing the jobs that nobody else wants to to and earn a meager pay from modern day Fagins and get their nightly fix of drugs/booze and FOOD. It's the best they can do. If they can earn a couple of bucks on the side asking people for a hand out then hey, it's two dollars less they have to worry about.
But the chances are that you'll be attacked by one of them who OPENLY approaches you and asks as politely as they know how to is minimal.
The mentally ill ones? Well gee, those poor bastards have it worse. Not only do they got the day to day struggle of surviving on the streets but they got their own inner demons to deal with as well.
Most of these people come out of abusive homes, war veterans, or those who's state welfare funds have run out to the point they cannot afford their meds anymore. They are probably very unaware of their appearance and bodily odors. If they were in the right mind they'd care and probably try to find a place to get clean clothes and a bath. But they're not.
Am I asking you to pity them... to an extent yes. Pity them that folks like you don't petition the government to help them more. Instead folks like you want to call them garbage, human refuse, or as they called them in Demolition Man "Scraps", you want to berate them and hate them and be angry with them. Pity, pity for you Phil.

I'm not in that world anymore of the homeless, but I remind myself that everyday that could change. It could change for any one of us.
Jesus said: "The poor will be with you always..." he was right. So long as dead or dying multi-millionaires prefer to give to their own via colleges and private medical centers (who would turn away a homeless person because they've no insurance). So long as the government spends money on a war that is becoming increasingly unpopular by the week instead of finding a solution to help it's poor and tired and huddled masses...
There will be poor. There will be homelessness, there will be the mentally insane who can't get the help they need because everyone is too busy turning them away as they walk into the stores for their own subtenancies.

I get approached by homeless people alot. My state of awareness is the same as it is with the nicely dressed guy asking me for a light. Using the Homeland Security color code, I give these homeless folks a yellow... the nicely dressed guy asking for a light... yellow. The only time it escalates to a "orange" level is when they become argumentative at my inability (not always refusal) to help.
If I got a couple of bucks that I know I'll probably blow somewhere else ... I'll give it to them. Because dammit, sometimes they are just looking to get a burger at McDonalds or Burger King... just like I really was when I was "down there".

Ever go really hungry Phil? Ever go really hungry and not have a dollar to buy that .99 cent burger? Try that for a few days in a row. Then deny someone the next time they ask.

Sorry Phil, I normally like you and your articles... but this one... well... it just pissed me off with your anger and blind hatred.

 

[Sukerkin]

Blimey! The things you learn somedays - I never would've dreamed that some of my compatriots here have had it so tough economically at one point or other in their lives. I feel for you chaps and can only hope that you got something positive from your time on that savagely rough road.

It makes me feel all the more what I said to my missus the other night whilst we watched "The Pursuit of Happiness" viz, sometimes I am so very glad that I do not live in America. If you're riding high then it's wonderful but if you're not ...

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

[QUOTECould you find for me some statistics related to "thugs" as a demographic, please? My booklet includes statistical data related to the homeless.][/QUOTE] Dear Martial list I do not need to rely on stats because I lived it. In my experience here in Miami the homeless are not the ones endangering people. And not all Homeless people are black drug addicts nor are they suffering from mental illness. I have been homeless before and I have worked with the homeless with the network Food not bombs a food drive that helps the homeless. The thug is a person who is out to harm a person for ill will intent or to rob them. In my experiences these are the people who are endangering lives be it through the cross fire of stray bullets or actual robbing for money.
But thats the difference between you and me you talk about stats and I lived watching my back.
Go ahead and say what you will I have no need to respond.

 

[Big Don]

The number of homeless is pitifully small next to the number of illegal aliens, whose mere presence makes them criminals. I'd be far more inclined to worry about them than the homeless.
My mom's husband worked in several high end restraunts on Maui, 70% of the waitstaff was homeless...BY CHOICE. They lived in tents on the beaches and showered and changed in the employee locker rooms. Oh, and their wages while not CEO level were higher than average for the jobs on Maui at that time and they made healthy tips...

 

[MA-Caver]

The number of homeless is pitifully small next to the number of illegal aliens, whose mere presence makes them criminals. I'd be far more inclined to worry about them than the homeless.
My mom's husband worked in several high end restraunts on Maui, 70% of the waitstaff was homeless...BY CHOICE. They lived in tents on the beaches and showered and changed in the employee locker rooms. Oh, and their wages while not CEO level were higher than average for the jobs on Maui at that time and they made healthy tips...

That's one other factor is that many of these homeless people, choose to be without a roof over their heads... but they are working none-the-less.

 

[Xue Sheng]

The truth certainly is very upsetting to many people. It remains the truth regardless.

Opinionated yes, the truth as seen by Phil most certainly but the actual truth....doubtful.

Statistics can be used to prove or disprove a lot of things but without the actual study and formulas used behind those statistics they are pretty useless

And by my statistics 9 out of 10 people may or may not agree.

Catch Ya Later Phil

 

[shesulsa]

Truth is, at best, subjective and relative. The truth of The Martialist is that all not like him are to be feared, regarded as the enemy and profiled.

I have fed the homeless. I have helped pregnant homeless women find suitable clothing from a large pile of donations. MY truth ... from my actual, physical, one-on-one encounters with the homeless is this: the majority of these unfortunates are, indeed, mentally ill ... it is clear as a bell that there's something a bit "off" about most and I don't mean the odor. I mean most appear, sound and behave as though they have some kind of disability. Others it was clear were just on drugs or alcohol.

The majority of the homeless people I have been side-by-side with, served food to never wanted to tell their story. They wanted to be seen as human beings like you and me, just ... without a roof.

Homelessness IS a tragedy. Desperate times will lead people to desperate actions and the smaller portion of the homeless who are unequivocally criminals, homless by choice, cannot be denied their existence.

But to lump all under one umbrella is a classic, socially misguided tenet of the unitarian diatribe most expect from authors like The Martialist.

Should you fear everyone? Absolutely not. Should you take care in your surroundings at all times? Of course. I don't think anyone needs a volunteered handbook on fearing women who wear purple any more than they need a hole in the head ... which is, I'm sure, why it's volunteered rather than published for sale.

Have a nice day.

 

[Lisa]

Oh how these threads make me giggle.