The Rise and Fall of System Popularity

[Instructor]

I've been practicing martial arts since the early 90's. I've gained rank in a couple of systems and dabbled in many others for fun. Lately I notice most local schools are advertising either MMA or BJJ. Growing up it was always Karate, maybe Judo. When I began TKD was peaking. We could point to so many things wich would increase a systems popularity. For example a major movie star doing a system such as Bruce Lee. Or maybe a regular TV series like Kung Fu. I think the obvious reason MMA has gained popularity is because of watching it competitively on television. MMA has its stars in cinema as well.

With all these musings. Do you all think MMA will continue to rise in popularity or has it peaked? What will be the next big thing and if so why?

Cheers,
Jon

 

[Hot Lunch]

I've been practicing martial arts since the early 90's. I've gained rank in a couple of systems and dabbled in many others for fun. Lately I notice most local schools are advertising either MMA or BJJ. Growing up it was always Karate, maybe Judo. When I began TKD was peaking. We could point to so many things wich would increase a systems popularity. For example a major movie star doing a system such as Bruce Lee. Or maybe a regular TV series like Kung Fu. I think the obvious reason MMA has gained popularity is because of watching it competitively on television. MMA has its stars in cinema as well.

With all these musings. Do you all think MMA will continue to rise in popularity or has it peaked? What will be the next big thing and if so why?

Cheers,
Jon

I think there's a difference between being a martial artist and being a fighter. Just because you're one doesn't mean you want to be the other. So I think that karate, judo, kung fu, taekwondo, etc will always have their place.

As for "the next big thing," Karate Combat is rising in popularity. I could see other traditional martial arts adopting their own professional full-contact combat sport promotion that is specific to their one art. Maybe taekwondo or wing chun does it in the future. Outside of that, I'm not sure if there's anywhere left to go.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Been training since the 70s. Seen many changes. The media has a big impact. Competitions are a great place to advertise styles. Has MMA peaked? Who knows? It is all about cycles - the new becomes old, and the old becomes new. The main secret is to ignore the trends and keep training in the art which you have a passion for.

 

[Instructor]

Been training since the 70s. Seen many changes. The media has a big impact. Competitions are a great place to advertise styles. Has MMA peaked? Who knows? It is all about cycles - the new becomes old, and the old becomes new. The main secret is to ignore the trends and keep training in the art which you have a passion for.

That last sentence is wisdom to a point. I think its also good to expose yourself to other systems and training methods periodically,

 

[windwalker099]

One might want to go to Asia, to understand whether they are popular as cultural traditions, or as methods used in the competitions of today...for those looking for competition. Their are hybrids using both modern and traditional method's developed by teachers interested in updating their practice's for use in the ring...

 

[windwalker099]

practice of a traditional system from long ago..

 

[windwalker099]

Updated sister style "hop gar" modified for the competitions of today.

 

[skribs]

I think MMA is going to be the strong one at least for a while. The big reason is that on social media, the MMA clique is essentially going full cancel culture on any martial art that's not part of the core group. If it doesn't meet their standards, it gets ridiculed. Videos of TMAs get posted into r/martialarts for the express purpose of dogpiling on them.

The generation of teenagers that we have right now are going to see this kind of treatment and think MMA is better, either because they agree with the arguments being made, or because they think the other art is weak if it allows these kind of things to be said about it. I know some people on here will think, "Good!" But a lot of us TMA guys will think there's merit to TMAs that the youngsters are missing, but that's how social media works.

And, even though I am planning on opening a TKD school, and even though I am staunchly against such rudeness towards other martial arts, I am starting to see their point. I've posted recently in the Hapkido forum about my encounter with a school that was 75% yoga, 25% martial arts, and the Master was all over the place and a huge hypocrite. Then my more recent experiences at a TKD school where I feel the school is so risk averse that I'm at risk of moving backwards in my abilities.

I think we're going to see the arts that fit into the MMA clique as very popular, and other arts may wane.

 

[Hot Lunch]

I think MMA is going to be the strong one at least for a while. The big reason is that on social media, the MMA clique is essentially going full cancel culture on any martial art that's not part of the core group. If it doesn't meet their standards, it gets ridiculed. Videos of TMAs get posted into r/martialarts for the express purpose of dogpiling on them.

The generation of teenagers that we have right now are going to see this kind of treatment and think MMA is better, either because they agree with the arguments being made, or because they think the other art is weak if it allows these kind of things to be said about it. I know some people on here will think, "Good!" But a lot of us TMA guys will think there's merit to TMAs that the youngsters are missing, but that's how social media works.

Reminds me of this meme that I've been seeing going around for the past few months. Clearly, this meme was made by a traditional martial artist. However, the MMA guys were straight ridiculing it.

Yes, the "masters of none" was a shot at MMA and would understandably provoke a reaction from them, but I'm not convinced that they wouldn't have ridiculed the meme anyway if that part was left out.

I don't need to be able to beat an MMA fighter to feel validated in training in traditional martial arts. That's not what I'm training to be able to do. It's also highly improbable that I'm ever going to have to defend myself from a mixed martial artist.

 

[drop bear]

Reminds me of this meme that I've been seeing going around for the past few months. Clearly, this meme was made by a traditional martial artist. However, the MMA guys were straight ridiculing it.

Yes, the "masters of none" was a shot at MMA and would understandably provoke a reaction from them, but I'm not convinced that they wouldn't have ridiculed the meme anyway if that part was left out.

I don't need to be able to beat an MMA fighter to feel validated in training in traditional martial arts. That's not what I'm training to be able to do. It's also highly improbable that I'm ever going to have to defend myself from a mixed martial artist.

View attachment 29900

Ridiculed because it is playing pretend.

Discipline, respect etc is not a case of posting memes. It is about putting the work in.

If it is any consolidation. The I am a shark riding a lion eating a viking BJJ memes also get ridiculed for the same reason.

 

[skribs]

@Hot Lunch

I'm not saying that it doesn't happen in both directions, and there certainly are TMA guys who do disrespect other martial arts. I see it on here plenty. I see it in other groups as well. However, I think the majority of what I described above is what I've seen going in the direction of MMA folks making a sport out of insulting TMAs.

@drop bear

Are you not playing pretend as well? Just because your sport is more realistic than someone else's, doesn't mean it's still got some unrealism in its ruleset.

 

[HighKick]

I think MMA is going to be the strong one at least for a while. The big reason is that on social media, the MMA clique is essentially going full cancel culture on any martial art that's not part of the core group. If it doesn't meet their standards, it gets ridiculed. Videos of TMAs get posted into r/martialarts for the express purpose of dogpiling on them.

The generation of teenagers that we have right now are going to see this kind of treatment and think MMA is better, either because they agree with the arguments being made, or because they think the other art is weak if it allows these kind of things to be said about it. I know some people on here will think, "Good!" But a lot of us TMA guys will think there's merit to TMAs that the youngsters are missing, but that's how social media works.

And, even though I am planning on opening a TKD school, and even though I am staunchly against such rudeness towards other martial arts, I am starting to see their point. I've posted recently in the Hapkido forum about my encounter with a school that was 75% yoga, 25% martial arts, and the Master was all over the place and a huge hypocrite. Then my more recent experiences at a TKD school where I feel the school is so risk averse that I'm at risk of moving backwards in my abilities.

I think we're going to see the arts that fit into the MMA clique as very popular, and other arts may wane.

How do you factor in the 'elitist' factor for MMA? I am not all that familiar with the standard MMA training model, but I would think most practitioners top out at 30 years of age or less. This leaves a very large age window that styles like Karate and TKD (any standing art) can take advantage of. And it is very school specific. A lot of TKD schools have taught Hapkido in regular classes without identifying as a Hap school long before MMA was even established. I know of several that roll in their classes above green belt.
I think there is a stronger likelihood hood that most martial arts will become an amalgamation in the future. What name it will be called I have no idea.
Is there a more casual training for model MMA?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've been practicing martial arts since the early 90's. I've gained rank in a couple of systems and dabbled in many others for fun. Lately I notice most local schools are advertising either MMA or BJJ. Growing up it was always Karate, maybe Judo. When I began TKD was peaking. We could point to so many things wich would increase a systems popularity. For example a major movie star doing a system such as Bruce Lee. Or maybe a regular TV series like Kung Fu. I think the obvious reason MMA has gained popularity is because of watching it competitively on television. MMA has its stars in cinema as well.

With all these musings. Do you all think MMA will continue to rise in popularity or has it peaked? What will be the next big thing and if so why?

Cheers,
Jon

Popularity used yo be based on perceived fiction. MMA changed that. Now function has become a big draw. After that it's entertainment. The idea of being a martial arts action hero or villain is still an attractive opportunity that pays more than actual fighting. Function is going to drive the next 20 years. It will take that long for many TMA schools to groom their prized student.

 

[Blindside]

Is there a more casual training for model MMA?

Most people in a MMA/BJJ/Kickboxing gym aren't fighters and aren't planning on being fighters/competitors. They are there for fitness, fun, personal challenge and probably the social aspect of the gym. They probably do light sparring/rolling regularly or maybe they just attend the bag classes. Basically it is just like a traditional martial art, just without the you know, tradition. As an older guy I'd be happy to go to a kickboxing class and do some light rounds at the end.

 

[drop bear]

@Hot Lunch

I'm not saying that it doesn't happen in both directions, and there certainly are TMA guys who do disrespect other martial arts. I see it on here plenty. I see it in other groups as well. However, I think the majority of what I described above is what I've seen going in the direction of MMA folks making a sport out of insulting TMAs.

@drop bear

Are you not playing pretend as well? Just because your sport is more realistic than someone else's, doesn't mean it's still got some unrealism in its ruleset.

Not to the point of needing a meme to validate how disciplined I am.

 

[skribs]

Not to the point of needing a meme to validate how disciplined I am.

There is a different kind of discipline in a TMA than in MMA.

In my experience in BJJ, there's a lot more discipline about being safe with your training partner. But in a TMA, there's more discipline in how you approach each other and in how you approach the material. It's a different skill to memorize forms in great detail than it is to learn how to apply techniques against a resisting opponent.

I think this is more important for kids, where I've seen how the discipline of Taekwondo helps fix certain behavior problems better than BJJ does. Other behavior problems it's the opposite. There's this one teenager that was at my last TKD school, I think all of the instructors would have paid money to see him take a BJJ class just to see how the mat enforcers would treat him.

 

[drop bear]

There is a different kind of discipline in a TMA than in MMA.

In my experience in BJJ, there's a lot more discipline about being safe with your training partner. But in a TMA, there's more discipline in how you approach each other and in how you approach the material. It's a different skill to memorize forms in great detail than it is to learn how to apply techniques against a resisting opponent.

I think this is more important for kids, where I've seen how the discipline of Taekwondo helps fix certain behavior problems better than BJJ does. Other behavior problems it's the opposite. There's this one teenager that was at my last TKD school, I think all of the instructors would have paid money to see him take a BJJ class just to see how the mat enforcers would treat him.

If you are starting with that meme. And you get mocked. You basically deserve it.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

The style of martial art we choose seems to affect how we behave in the world. It strikes me as rather funny that MMA/UFC fans like to prove their approach to the martial arts is the best and most realistic. This attitude mirrors the sport of UFC/MMA which aims to see which fighters are the strongest, fastest, best, etc. etc.

 

[drop bear]

The style of martial art we choose seems to affect how we behave in the world. It strikes me as rather funny that MMA/UFC fans like to prove their approach to the martial arts is the best and most realistic. This attitude mirrors the sport of UFC/MMA which aims to see which fighters are the strongest, fastest, best, etc. etc.

Yes. MMA definitely has more integrity in that regard.