The Resurgence of Traditional Martial Arts in Modern Mixed Martial Arts

[Wing Woo Gar82 5]

I've never messed with calves but grabbing a goat by the hide like you described does work like a charm. We've got one in particular thats just a big jerk, have had to pull him off his feet several times by the hide. We have a dog that helps out, it's easier when he's distracting that a-hole goat lol. He'll actually grip a goat by the back of the neck. Doesn't hurt them but man it helps.

My grandfather had 2 pit bulls, “ Joiner” and “Shaper” to help him with his pigs. They were very effective deterrents to sneaky pigs. I saw the pigs eat a live squirrel, I was always afraid they would eat me when I was a kid.

 

[Wing Woo Gar82 5]

Interestingly it depends.

If you put enough story in their heads about how things work in the street. Then they will discount that evidence for their conformation bias.

Which is why trying to focus on evidence and not stories is so important.

Stories are a type of evidence, provided one trusts the source. What people believe is of little worth in the street. What matters is paying attention to surroundings so that you know what’s happening before it happens. That’s literally bouncing in a nutshell. I’m sure you can predict quite a bit just by quietly observing.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Something I've noticed here, you CMA guys really seem to study fighting. Most of the karate I've practiced is more geared towards stopping an attacker so you don't have to actually engage in a fight. Hopefully lol. I was taught if you're having to spend time fighting with a person, you're not doing karate the way it's meant.

Karate people study fighting too. lol

 

[JowGaWolf]

Stories are a type of evidence, provided one trusts the source. What people believe is of little worth in the street. What matters is paying attention to surroundings so that you know what’s happening before it happens. That’s literally bouncing in a nutshell. I’m sure you can predict quite a bit just by quietly observing.

Most of hear things like "Act on instincts" or "train until it becomes natural." the reality there is a lot of analytical work that goes on and that happens very quickly. If we break down the thought process and things that we analyze within seconds, then most will tell us there's no way we could do all of that. But we do. People who don't analyze things usually end up like that lady who got body slammed.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Most of my actual “fighting” was before I trained CMA. My dirty tricks, improvised weapons, limited boxing, and even more limited JJJ was what I used as a teenager and early 20s. I started CMA 28 years ago. I acquired my most recent teacher, Dr Yang Jwing Ming about 18months ago. I think my focus is far more geared towards movement fundamentals that make martial arts possibly more effective. I like to think that what I teach can be applied to nearly all other athletic endeavors. I don’t focus on teaching techniques, I focus on balance, posture, and coordination. I’m of the opinion that teaching techniques to people who can’t stand up straight, or on one leg is a waste of time. What technique works without coordination? Which techniques work better when these solid fundamentals are present? I don’t know a thing about Karate, but I understand that viewpoint. Half a brick to the back of the head can be quite expeditious.

CMA has a romanticized image anyway. It isn't as noble and high on moral values as people make it appear. The type of techniques found in CMA makes this pretty clear.

I always tell people that kung fu says If there's a brick on the ground pick it up or your enemy will use it against you. The worst that will happen if you pick it up is that you gain an option that you didn't have before, while at the same time take away an option from your enemy.

 

[Kung Fu Wang147 177]

Something I've noticed here, you CMA guys really seem to study fighting. Most of the karate I've practiced is more geared towards stopping an attacker so you don't have to actually engage in a fight.

Some people like to use the term "self-defense" instead of "fighting". This way, they can believe they are the good guys and everybody else are all bad guys. I like to use the term "fighting" because

- inside school sparring/wrestling,
- tournament fight,
- personal challenge fight

all have nothing to do with self-defense (I don't like to talk about street fight that I try to avoid).

I have 2 CMA teachers. In a street fight, one of my teachers would put a knife into my hand. The other of my teachers would pull me away. In CMA, people are different too.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Some people like to use the term "self-defense" instead of "fighting". This way, they can believe they are the good guys and everybody else are all bad guys. I like to use the term "fighting" because

- inside school sparring/wrestling,
- tournament fight,
- personal challenge fight

all have nothing to do with self-defense (I don't like to talk about street fight that I try to avoid).

I have 2 CMA teachers. In a street fight, one of my teachers would put a knife into my hand. The other of my teachers would pull me away. In CMA, people are different too.

good point about self-defense.

I spent a few hours sharing Jow Ga and not once did I mention self-defense. When I talk about self-defense I don't mention Jow Ga.

But if you want to know how I fight I will talk forever about Jow Ga. I think deep down Fighting and Self-Defense aren't the same thing. Self-defense means I'm defending myself. Fighting means I'm ....... When I spent a few hours sharing Jow Ga, I don't think I mentioned how to defend.

I think when I went to the Meet up, I didn't mention how to defend.

 

[Kung Fu Wang147 177]

I think deep down Fighting and Self-Defense aren't the same thing.

The only place that "self-defense" is suitable to be used is the "street fight" that legal issue will be involved which is not fun to talk about it.

I don't like to talk about "street fight". This is why I have never used the term "self-defense".

 

[Haruhiko]

Most of hear things like "Act on instincts" or "train until it becomes natural." the reality there is a lot of analytical work that goes on and that happens very quickly. If we break down the thought process and things that we analyze within seconds, then most will tell us there's no way we could do all of that. But we do. People who don't analyze things usually end up like that lady who got body slammed.

When people say stuff like that, it's usually referring to a state of flow. There's no analysis as one's mind is absorbed completely into a play state.

 

[isshinryuronin37 36]

I think deep down Fighting and Self-Defense aren't the same thing.

Fighting is an all-inclusive term, I think. A broad definition I just came up with (and quite like) may be the employment of physical technique designed to injure/dominate another where there is at least potential risk to both parties. There are various subsets of fighting aside from the style/system used.

Self-defense in response to an attack. Initiating an attack against another. Mutual combat where both parties desire to engage. (It seems possible that one can flow into another.) In all of these, the level of damage for either party can be varied on the spectrum of violence, from getting the opponent to surrender, retreat, to minor injury, major injury, all the way to lethal. There is also sport fighting where the levels of violence and the end of conflict are determined by a rule set. This is one way of classifying types of fighting. Other ways are possible, such as mental state and justification, but I tried to avoid the subjective.

The choice of technique/tactics will likely be different for each type of fight. The ones I listed are all fighting IMO, self-defense included. When attacked, some kind of fighting move is executed by the defender. I can't think of why self-defense would not be considered fighting (at least by my definition).

 

[Badhabits1]

Most of my actual “fighting” was before I trained CMA. My dirty tricks, improvised weapons, limited boxing, and even more limited JJJ was what I used as a teenager and early 20s. I started CMA 28 years ago. I acquired my most recent teacher, Dr Yang Jwing Ming about 18months ago. I think my focus is far more geared towards movement fundamentals that make martial arts possibly more effective. I like to think that what I teach can be applied to nearly all other athletic endeavors. I don’t focus on teaching techniques, I focus on balance, posture, and coordination. I’m of the opinion that teaching techniques to people who can’t stand up straight, or on one leg is a waste of time. What technique works without coordination? Which techniques work better when these solid fundamentals are present? I don’t know a thing about Karate, but I understand that viewpoint. Half a brick to the back of the head can be quite expeditious.

I really like this approach. Long time ago I heard something like " martial arts should inform your general movement" that really stuck with me.

 

[Badhabits1]

Karate people study fighting too. lol

True. Just different emphasis with different people.

 

[Wing Woo Gar82 5]

The only place that "self-defense" is suitable to be used is the "street fight" that legal issue will be involved which is not fun to talk about it.

I don't like to talk about "street fight". This is why I have never used the term "self-defense".

My Sifu said there is no such thing as self defense, there is only self offense.

 

[Xue Sheng138 9]

My Sifu said there is no such thing as self defense, there is only self offense.

Xingyiquan; I had a Shifu who said Xingyiquan is the only internal martial art, possibly the only Chinese martial art, that thinks a preemptive attack is justified. He never called it self-defense, he alway just called it fighting.

 

[Kung Fu Wang147 177]

In Chinese wrestling (Shuai Chiao), defense techniques are taught 3 years later after all the offense techniques have been taught. The SC teacher want his students to attack, attack, and still attack.

My teacher said that during the ancient time, audience would give credit to a person who played offense and lost than to a person who played defense and won. Because the person who plays offense will have a future. The person who plays defense will not have any future.

 

[Kung Fu Wang147 177]

Xingyiquan; I had a Shifu who said Xingyiquan is the only internal martial art, possibly the only Chinese martial art, that thinks a preemptive attack is justified. He never called it self-defense, he alway just called it fighting.

If we talk about internal MA, I believe Bagua also like to attack first that moving around opponent, look for opening to attack. Taiji is the only internal MA that like to play defense. If you stand 6 feet away from your Taiji opponent, you should feel safe.

 

[Xue Sheng138 9]

If we talk about internal MA, I believe Bagua also like to attack first that moving around opponent, look for opening to attack. Taiji is the only internal MA that like to play defense. If you stand 6 feet away from your Taiji opponent, you should feel safe.

To me
Taijiquan: defense is defense and defense is attack
Baguazhang: defense is defense, attack is attack
Xingyiquan: attack is attack, attack is defense

 

[Haruhiko]

There is enough damage dealt in a rules fight to incapacitate someone.

Do you feel they just wouldn't be incapacitated because there are no rules?

It would be a completely different fight, and UFC fighters would be at a disadvantage if they are training for the "meta".

 

[drop bear146 21]

It would be a completely different fight, and UFC fighters would be at a disadvantage if they are training for the "meta".

Why.

I mean for example.

A UFC fighter can punch someone in the face hard enough to knock them out and then completely have their way with them. (They are really quite good at that generally)

Now there might be lethal strikes or moves that cause more damage
But that punch is enough damage to end a fight.

So regardless as to what is in a person's street arsenal. They still have to come up with some way of addressing that.

And there are not street moves that address that issue. There isn't an illegal move that prevents a person being counter punched.

You just have to be better at punching.

 

[JowGaWolf]

It would be a completely different fight, and UFC fighters would be at a disadvantage if they are training for the "meta".

Could you elaborate? We've seen instances of MMA fighters involved in street fights and according to news reports some of them did well against single and multiple attackers. There is enough video out there for this not to be theoretical discussion.