The Power of Faith - the Amish
- Thread starter Jonathan Randall
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Hey Johnathan,
I hope that they can forgive and move on after this tragedy. However when I was talking about this with my wife last night I have serious doubts that anyone could actually forgive this fast. Maybe they say they have forgiven but actually have they? I hope that whatever is truly the situation that they do find a way to make some sence or get some peace out of this horrible tragedy.
I hope that they can forgive and move on after this tragedy. However when I was talking about this with my wife last night I have serious doubts that anyone could actually forgive this fast. Maybe they say they have forgiven but actually have they? I hope that whatever is truly the situation that they do find a way to make some sence or get some peace out of this horrible tragedy.
When it's your child... no, I can't imagine anyone ever finding sense or having peace again. Maybe they will; I hope so.
I would have to agree with you and hope that they can find some way to move on and get past this absolutely horrible tragedy.
Life is difficult enough to live the peaceful, simple ways that they do with the ever increasing encroachment of modern man on their boundries. They've striven hard to maintain their way of life and their philosophy for over 100+ years in this country. An amazing feat in-of-itself.
When modern day violence hits them, I can imagine the effect shaking them down to their roots. But they'll hold on as they've always done and move on as they've always done with their lives.
They can forgive and forgive quickly. They're not exposed to media portrayals in movies and comic books and graphic novels about quick vengance and long vendettas and deep grudges. The idea is foreign to them.
We should copy their example sometimes.
When modern day violence hits them, I can imagine the effect shaking them down to their roots. But they'll hold on as they've always done and move on as they've always done with their lives.
They can forgive and forgive quickly. They're not exposed to media portrayals in movies and comic books and graphic novels about quick vengance and long vendettas and deep grudges. The idea is foreign to them.
We should copy their example sometimes.
gardawamtu
Yellow Belt
I agree with y'all -- it would be extremely difficult to forgive. And one might ask if their forgiveness is a healthy one. Is forgiveness in this situation a way of escaping their pain?
I would love to be as forgiving.
Then again, they have an extremely different culture than those in the "mainstream" of society. It would be interesting to hear from someone who stands in both cultures (if there is such a person) who might be able to translate their worldview for those of us who do not understand.
I would love to be as forgiving.
Then again, they have an extremely different culture than those in the "mainstream" of society. It would be interesting to hear from someone who stands in both cultures (if there is such a person) who might be able to translate their worldview for those of us who do not understand.
gardawamtu
Yellow Belt
No, but they do study the Old Testament which has plenty of pictures of quick vengeance as well as long vendettas (Gen 4, Judges 19, 2 Sam 13, to name a few).
I have to agree with you, though, we as a culture have a lot we could learn from their embrace of simplicity and forgiveness.
From the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review website:
'Shoot me first,' victim said
By Mike Wereschagin
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Friday, October 6, 2006
NICKEL MINES - As they stood, their feet bound, in a line near the blackboard in the one-room schoolhouse, Marian Fisher spoke to her captor.
"Marian said, 'Shoot me first,' " said Rita Rhoads, a midwife who helped deliver Fisher 13 years ago.
Barbie Fisher, 12, spoke up just after her big sister, and asked Charles Carl Roberts IV to shoot her next, Rhoads said. They were trying to protect the younger girls, ages 6 to 13, who were taken prisoner Monday when Roberts barricaded them inside the West Nickel Mine Amish School, Rhoads said.
"He asked them to pray for him," she said. "I think that's amazing. He recognized they had something he didn't."
the rest of the story is here: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_473771.html
'Shoot me first,' victim said
By Mike Wereschagin
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Friday, October 6, 2006
NICKEL MINES - As they stood, their feet bound, in a line near the blackboard in the one-room schoolhouse, Marian Fisher spoke to her captor.
"Marian said, 'Shoot me first,' " said Rita Rhoads, a midwife who helped deliver Fisher 13 years ago.
Barbie Fisher, 12, spoke up just after her big sister, and asked Charles Carl Roberts IV to shoot her next, Rhoads said. They were trying to protect the younger girls, ages 6 to 13, who were taken prisoner Monday when Roberts barricaded them inside the West Nickel Mine Amish School, Rhoads said.
"He asked them to pray for him," she said. "I think that's amazing. He recognized they had something he didn't."
the rest of the story is here: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_473771.html
Gardawamtu---there are such people, I think---namely, Mennonites. I have friends who are Mennonites, and from what I understand, the Amish and the Mennonites are `first cousins' so far as belief goes, but the split---not at all amicable---arose at the end of the 17th c. with the Amish appearing as stricter subsect within the somewhat more open Anababtist sect that become the Mennonites. Mennonites are completely part of the modern world and modern society---our friends' children go to the same public school as our little boy---but from what my friends say, they still feel not just a spiritual but a cultural linkage to the Amish and my impression is that they have a much more detailed understanding of what Amish life is like than most of us. As soon as this thread started I began thinking about asking our friends next time we run into them at school what their take is on how people from Amish communities are likely to deal with this unspeakable tragedy---individuals are different, but cultures give the individuals who share them certain resources for coping with the extreme harsh edge of life (and withholding others from them). I am going to do that...
I can't bear to read this.
For these Amish, like for anyone else, forgiveness is a choice. But that doesn't make it easy for them (any more than it would for any of us) & they know that. If one decides to forgive someone, they don't automatically FEEL like forgiving them (or FEEL love toward them to do so). They act on the choice they've made to forgive. There is a lot of resistance in us to forgive. The "natural" way is to go with our 1st emotion of hurt & anger. Personally, I can feed on that feeling for a long time. But, the choice to forgive is against feeling the need to "get even." As Christians, God calls us to forgive. None ever said it would easy.
I hope that if I'm ever in situation of dire straits like that, I will make that same choice.
I hope that if I'm ever in situation of dire straits like that, I will make that same choice.
zDom
Senior Master
One thing to consider: forgiveness is good not only for the forgiven, but also for the forgiver.
Bitterness, hate, grudges -- all of these usually have more of a negative impact on the one holding them inside than the one they are held against.
I'm sure forgiveness is like any other skill or virtue: the more you do it, the easier it becomes.
Bitterness, hate, grudges -- all of these usually have more of a negative impact on the one holding them inside than the one they are held against.
I'm sure forgiveness is like any other skill or virtue: the more you do it, the easier it becomes.
bydand
Senior Master
Absolutly right. I don't think I could live up to this ideal myself if it were my children involved, but there are some out there who can I have no doubt.
zDom
Senior Master
I doubt my ability to forgive as well, when it comes to my children.
But there is no doubt that vengeance would be a BAD choice to make for me, ultimately, while forgiveness would without a doubt be the BEST choice.
Creator preserve me from ever having to find out the hard way! I don't think I would be strong enough to bear it.
Amazing. I think we can all learn a lesson from the Amish.
Think about what would happen if people dealt with all of the world's problems like this...
Yeah the Amish are far from perfect, but there is a lot that can be learned from them as a community.
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