The New Shogun

[Gyakuto108]

This looks really exciting!

The person who brushes beautiful Japanese calligraphy for me, told be she and her friend had created all the calligraphy for this new adaptation of James Clavell’s ‘Shogun’, but I’d heard nothing of it and assumed it was just for Canadian release until seeing this. It’s going to be on Disney+ in February 2024.

 

[Bujingodai]

I loved the original, damn will need to get Disney + again

 

[Gyakuto108]

I loved the original, damn will need to get Disney + again

Yes me too, but watching the old one now, it’s a little dated…even for a jidaigeki (period drama)!

It looks like the new one has Mariko as some sort of ‘super assassin’ rather than the little cutie she was in the original That’s a bit of a well-worn Hollywood trope.

Yes I looked into getting Disney+ for a month to watch them all. Seems pretty cheap.

 

[Bujingodai]

That's a shame they are going to re allocate the storyline like that. But that seems the theme. I'll still watch it.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Big fan of the original. Trailer is awesome, but I'd be interested in what the Japanophiles think.

 

[Oily Dragon]

That's a shame they are going to re allocate the storyline like that. But that seems the theme. I'll still watch it.

It's just what they do now with these historical dramas. They need to beef it up for the modern viewer. The music has to be Avengers-like, lots of slow narrative overlays. "What kind of man..." is the new "this summer...one man..".

Look at pop shows like "Bridgerton" and "Queen Charlotte" and the dozens of copycats. What seems like attention to detail often comes under fire as "totally wrong", but people eat it up anyway.

 

[Gyakuto108]

It's just what they do now with these historical dramas. They need to beef it up for the modern viewer. The music has to be Avengers-like, lots of slow narrative overlays. "What kind of man..." is the new "this summer...one man..".

”…in a worrrld… “ <man walking, determinedly, away from explosions in slow motion>

By ‘modern viewer’ you might mean DC/Marvel fans. It’s lowest common denominator screen writing. Do they really think DC/Marvel fans, in any great numbers, will be enticed into watching a period drama set in Japan because of these tweaks?

Good writing doesn’t require gimmicks. Sopranos with a flying Tony didn’t happen. Walter White never once used invisibility to evade detection. Tiberius Claudius Drusus Nero Germanicus was devoid of magnetic powers to conquer Britain in AD 43!

Look at pop shows like "Bridgerton" and "Queen Charlotte" and the dozens of copycats.

Like Britney Spears, Pussy Cat Dolls, One Direction, popular doesn’t mean good or worthy.

What seems like attention to detail often comes under fire as "totally wrong", but people eat it up anyway.

All too true. Let’s hope ‘Shogun-This time he means business’ doesn’t pander to the ‘lowest common denominator’.

 

[Steve]

With all the whinging and moaning I honestly can’t tell if you two are looking forward to this or not.

 

[Gyakuto108]

Brits like to moan. It shows we‘re happy.

 

[Oily Dragon]

”…in a worrrld… “ <man walking, determinedly, away from explosions in slow motion>

By ‘modern viewer’ you might mean DC/Marvel fans. It’s lowest common denominator screen writing. Do they really think DC/Marvel fans, in any great numbers, will be enticed into watching a period drama set in Japan because of these tweaks?

Good writing doesn’t require gimmicks. Sopranos with a flying Tony didn’t happen. Walter White never once used invisibility to evade detection. Tiberius Claudius Drusus Nero Germanicus was devoid of magnetic powers to conquer Britain in AD 43!


Like Britney Spears, Pussy Cat Dolls, One Direction, popular doesn’t mean good or worthy.


All too true. Let’s hope ‘Shogun-This time he means business’ doesn’t pander to the ‘lowest common denominator’.

I don't know if it's comic book fans...they tried to do 47 Ronin with Keanu Reeves and it tanked, but the trailer was as awesome as the new Shogun one:

"...mountains of corpses...will not stand in our way.."

All I can say is, the Last Samurai and Shogun have a lot of common tropes, not to mention actors, which is a good sign. Neither of these were mean to be about the "outlander" anyway, but a glimpse inside culture.

Funny fact though, Matt Damon was not the first person to play Jason Bourne. It was actually Richard Chamberlain in 1988.

 

[Oily Dragon]

With all the whinging and moaning I honestly can’t tell if you two are looking forward to this or not.

As long as they don't cast Jake Gyllenhaal as a member of the Imperial court, or Scarlet Johansen as the spunky, rebellious geisha.

 

[Bujingodai]

I don't know if it's comic book fans...they tried to do 47 Ronin with Keanu Reeves and it tanked, but the trailer was as awesome as the new Shogun one:

"...mountains of corpses...will not stand in our way.."

All I can say is, the Last Samurai and Shogun have a lot of common tropes, not to mention actors, which is a good sign. Neither of these were mean to be about the "outlander" anyway, but a glimpse inside culture.

Funny fact though, Matt Damon was not the first person to play Jason Bourne. It was actually Richard Chamberlain in 1988.

View attachment 30339

I had no idea of that, and I was an adult at that time. Never saw it. Funny just not the guy I think for a role like that, but then again I thought he was decent in Shogun and would never have thought of him for that role either.

 

[Gyakuto108]

My ten point scale for how good a film is, has at ‘one’ Oppenheimer and Forty Seven Ronin and at ’ten’ Arrival/Ex Machina.

I was nearly an extra in 47 Ronin!

 

[Buka23]

I don't know if it's comic book fans...they tried to do 47 Ronin with Keanu Reeves and it tanked, but the trailer was as awesome as the new Shogun one:

"...mountains of corpses...will not stand in our way.."

All I can say is, the Last Samurai and Shogun have a lot of common tropes, not to mention actors, which is a good sign. Neither of these were mean to be about the "outlander" anyway, but a glimpse inside culture.

Funny fact though, Matt Damon was not the first person to play Jason Bourne. It was actually Richard Chamberlain in 1988.

View attachment 30339

I never knew Chamberlain played Bourne.
Wish I had seen that.

 

[hoshin160016]

If my memory is correct, when the original Shogun came out the Japanese didn't like it because it deviated too far from the historical accuracy of the true story that it was adapted from. I think I will be disappointed with this version for the same reason.
But yes ill watch it.

 

[Steve]

If my memory is correct, when the original Shogun came out the Japanese didn't like it because it deviated too far from the historical accuracy of the true story that it was adapted from. I think I will be disappointed with this version for the same reason.
But yes ill watch it.

You mean the fictional book by James Clavell that it was based on or the story of William Adams upon which it was loosely based? It’s been decades since I read the book or watched the mini series, but as I recall, it did a very good job of staying true to the novel.

 

[Steve]

This looks really exciting!

The person who brushes beautiful Japanese calligraphy for me, told be she and her friend had created all the calligraphy for this new adaptation of James Clavell’s ‘Shogun’, but I’d heard nothing of it and assumed it was just for Canadian release until seeing this. It’s going to be on Disney+ in February 2024.

Finally had a chance to watch the trailer, and it looks really good to me. I'll pretty much watch anything with Hiroyuko Sanada, though. Don't know how well it will follow the book, but I don't really think it needs to. As long as it's a good story, well told, I'll be happy. And the source material wasn't too shabby.

 

[Gyakuto108]

I was nearl

You mean the fictional book by James Clavell that it was based on or the story of William Adams upon which it was loosely based? It’s been decades since I read the book or watched the mini series, but as I recall, it did a very good job of staying true to the novel.

You don’t have it on DVD?

Fare-thee-well, oh you Barbary merchants
Fare-thee- well to the Spanish blockade
Fare-thee-well to the straits of Gibraltar
and the treacherous seas of Cathay!

 

[hoshin160016]

You mean the fictional book by James Clavell that it was based on or the story of William Adams upon which it was loosely based? It’s been decades since I read the book or watched the mini series, but as I recall, it did a very good job of staying true to the novel.

I was meaning that both book and original movie were not well received by the Japanese because they were comparing it to the historical Adam's but more so because Toranaga is obviously Ieyasu Tokugawa. I am sure there were many cultural errors, as example actor Toshiro Mifune refused to shave his head and wore a mullet instead. Darn those mullets. I had a Mifune mullet back in the 80s. Worst fashion ever, tho I hear they are making a comeback.

 

[Gyakuto108]

I was meaning that both book and original movie were not well received by the Japanese because they were comparing it to the historical Adam's but more so because Toranaga is obviously Ieyasu Tokugawa. I am sure there were many cultural errors, as example actor Toshiro Mifune refused to shave his head and wore a mullet instead. Darn those mullets. I had a Mifune mullet back in the 80s. Worst fashion ever, tho I hear they are making a comeback.

I think the book and the mini series presented an exaggerated view of Japanese culture: a minion, seemingly asleep while in a guard of honour (?), doesn’t bow in a line up, so the senior samurai cuts his head off to the horror of Blackthorne. A hung pheasant belonging to Blackthorne is disposed of by a kindly gardening peasant, so he is executed(!). Seppuku is committed here, there and everywhere. A samurai leaps to his death just to attract Blackthorne’s attention in a critical situation (!). It was all a bit ‘on the nose’ and makes me cringe when I rewatch it now.

These thing might’ve happened, but they were unlikely and rare. They were a dramatic trope to highlight the seeming barbarism of the Japanese (juxtaposed with Blackthorne’s eventual appreciation and love of Japan, the Japanese and their culture). Thus I can understand why the Japanese audience found it an uncomfortable watch.