The Martial Arts Theory of Everything

[Tgace]

Heres an interesting site with American Indian definitions of warriorship and some of their modern "warrior socities".


http://users.rttinc.com/~asiniwachi/Rwarrior.html#warrior

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by loki09789
Rich,

Protect your village from the local idiot: VOTE They are the idiots with the largest range of effect.

I vote and I would vote more often, if I could figure a way to do it and keep my morals.

 

[mandirigma]

Originally posted by Tgace
The best any of us can do is to try and live life like a warrior, I could care less what anybody else thinks of or calls me....and that covers a lot more than training in any martial art....

Such a good topic. Struggle with that a lot myself.

A) I think martial arts can be a pervasive system of thinking. Anything can be a system of thought. For example, let's say one is a scientist, and has "mastered" scientific method. That is certainly a type of skill that's applicable in other aspects of life. MA's can teach us the similar things: powers of observation, hard work, reward, defeat, self-esteem, fun, hypothesis testing, etc. MA's offer skills of all kinds to those willing to look for them.

B) A true martialist, IMHO, derives the greatest benefits from their mindset. The distinguishing characteristic of a warrior is their thinking, their mindset. Think of all the martial artists you know who are missing proper mindset. How many black belts leave the school and shuffle across the parking lot, without a hint of awareness? How many very experienced teachers of "self-defense" ride around town with their car doors unlocked? When car-jacked, would you rather have 4 black belts, a shotgun, guard dog and a light saber under your seat or would you rather have your door locked and room in front of you to drive? Mindset is the hallmark of a warrior.

C) Yes, as warriors, IMHO, we should seek out all pragmatic disciplines related to our art. We should know the law, some basic first aid, conflict resolution, etc. Warriors should spend as much time caring for their loved ones as training (after all, what are you training to survive for?).

So MA give us many benefits. However, for example, playing rugby with the local club also gives you discipline, work ethic, physicality, and probably the ability and resolve to defend yourself (those guys are tough!). The question, then, is what does being a warrior REALLY give us that we couldn't get elsewhere?

Just two long cents. Cool topic.

Be safe!

:asian:

 

[Tgace]

Originally posted by mandirigma
So MA give us many benefits. However, for example, playing rugby with the local club also gives you discipline, work ethic, physicality, and probably the ability and resolve to defend yourself (those guys are tough!). The question, then, is what does being a warrior REALLY give us that we couldn't get elsewhere?

Exactly! When you think of it, most team sports are battle simulations of a type arent they? Lacrosse is fairly big in my area and that was a warrior pastime among the Native Americans and a forerunner of Hockey.

I believe one of the primary "warrior" traits is finding and using what is useful in everything. Steven Ambriose (sp?) the historian, stated that one of the advantages the American soldier had during WWII was good old fashioned farmboy experience. For example the Germans would leave brokendown vehicles by the roadside for follow-on maintainance crews to fix. Americans would fix theirs up on their own with whatever they had on hand and keep on moving (he attributes that to the American love of cars and farmboy experience with tractors and farm equipment). When American tanks got tangled up in the French hedgerows, an enlisted man came up with the idea of welding steel blades to the front of his tank to plow through them. Soon the whole US Army was doing it. Its an example of translating seemingly unrelated experience into a combat advantage.

 

[Tgace]

Very interesting statement about "warriorship".

http://www.usd.edu/~nin/essay6.htm

 

[loki09789]

"So if some of you should look deep into your heart as I have asked and decide that you don’t belong here training, I will have no hard feelings."

This idea goes, not only for those who decide to leave training, but decide to choose different training as far as I am concerned. Budhists talk about the 8 fold path, Christians talk about each persons "calling," and folk sayings say there is more than one way to skin a cat.... okay.

We can agree to disagree, as long as the winner is willing to drive the loser to the hospital when its done .

Paul M.

 

[mandirigma]

From tgace's link to Warriorship: "I take this responsibility very seriously. I am training warriors, not running a daycare."

I agree. One of my instructors has said to this effect:

"Trainees...will do exactly what is expected of them. If little is expected, little will be accomplished. Seldom are noble deeds done by men who are thought of, and think of themselves, as nothing more than cannon fodder. Noble deeds are accomplished only by noble men. Training is largely meaningless if it does not make the trainee aware of his mission, of his place in history, and of his own magnificence."

Robert Spencer in The Craft of the Warrior gives a good idea of some aspects of mentality that warriors can/should strive for. He barely mentions martial arts, but the mentality is excellent.

:asian:

 

[Pappy Geo]

One of the things that come out of this thread is that we would agree on that there are different stages or degrees of warriorship and for different times of our lives. Below is a from a thread I wrote on the WMAC forum a will back.

As you can see these friends of mine were acting warriors at one time, but now live there life as normal people. Are they still warriors? probably considered has-been warriors. Just another prospective to consider on this hard to define subject. Maybe some of us are warriors in reserve?



Is your best friend a unsung hero-warrior?
Do you really know your friends?

Here is a partial list of buddies that I have a special bonding with that I hunt and fish with. A few of the many unsung heroes/warriors of the Vietnam area.

Buddy number one, lives in Othello, eastern Washington, a draftee, was a Navy medic assigned to the Marines during Vietnam for a couple of tours, he saw much action in Vietnam and was shot and seriously wounded will rescuing a fallen Marine in a fire-fight in the jungle. We hunt and fish together on a regular basis

Buddy number 2, lives in Yelm, WA, a draftee, was a Marine and spent several tours in the jungle, became addicted to being on the edge, had a difficult time adjusting to being a civilian and recently was diagnosed with Hepatitis C and nearly died before having a liver transplant 2 years ago, living on borrowed time he is an avid salmon fisherman and I consider him a fishing buddy. Does every thing on the edge!

My main hunting partner for over 10 years, lives near Rochester, WA, spent 5 years in the jungle, covert as a VC to do atrocious things that were blamed on the VC (always against VC collaborators) to make the villages not want to cooperate with the VC. He was one of the first operators under the "Phoenix Program"a top secret Ops under the CIA. He retired as a Sgt. Major, went through open heart surgery last year and now is doing really great. A tough old bird! He is the one who almost had his fingers bitten off when knifing the throat of a VC.

A lifetime friend, lives on Fox Island, WA, a draftee did his tour in a recon platoon carrying a shotgun, pulled many LPs (Listening posts) by yourself, separated from your squad by a kilometer m/l in the middle of the night in the jungle black as an ace of spades sorting through the jungle sounds when the hiss of the radio when checking in sounded like shout in the night. Spooky! We motor home and fish together on a regular basis.

My Military stories are different as they were as a sailor in the Coast Guard (yes the Coast Guard went to Vietnam also) patrolling the coast and river mouths but not in the jungle, not the same kind of risk...., boarded junks, arrested smugglers- suspected VC, support fire on the villages.. rode out unbelievable storms in typhoon season. Deadly sea snakes with no known anti- venom serum ... picked up bodies, wreckage's...at sea for 6 to 8 weeks at a time...hell on wheels on R&R...a draftee also.....

I am friends with and am surrounded by warriors! Regular guys in the everyday world, certainly not wannabes, maybe has-beens, and will only talk about their experiences with another vet who has been there. As a whole most were draftees--not by choice...

I am telling you this as for food for thought, on how many warriors are really out there, who have been there, and if pressed into a life or death corner would be very dangerous.

How about some of you? Does your relatives, friends have a story to tell?
_________________
Tito Geo

 

[Rich Parsons]

One of the things that come out of this thread is that we would agree on that there are different stages or degrees of warriorship and for different times of our lives. Below is a from a thread I wrote on the WMAC forum a will back.

As you can see these friends of mine were acting warriors at one time, but now live there life as normal people. Are they still warriors? probably considered has-been warriors. Just another prospective to consider on this hard to define subject. Maybe some of us are warriors in reserve?



Is your best friend a unsung hero-warrior?
Do you really know your friends?

Here is a partial list of buddies that I have a special bonding with that I hunt and fish with. A few of the many unsung heroes/warriors of the Vietnam area.

Buddy number one, lives in Othello, eastern Washington, a draftee, was a Navy medic assigned to the Marines during Vietnam for a couple of tours, he saw much action in Vietnam and was shot and seriously wounded will rescuing a fallen Marine in a fire-fight in the jungle. We hunt and fish together on a regular basis

Buddy number 2, lives in Yelm, WA, a draftee, was a Marine and spent several tours in the jungle, became addicted to being on the edge, had a difficult time adjusting to being a civilian and recently was diagnosed with Hepatitis C and nearly died before having a liver transplant 2 years ago, living on borrowed time he is an avid salmon fisherman and I consider him a fishing buddy. Does every thing on the edge!

My main hunting partner for over 10 years, lives near Rochester, WA, spent 5 years in the jungle, covert as a VC to do atrocious things that were blamed on the VC (always against VC collaborators) to make the villages not want to cooperate with the VC. He was one of the first operators under the "Phoenix Program"a top secret Ops under the CIA. He retired as a Sgt. Major, went through open heart surgery last year and now is doing really great. A tough old bird! He is the one who almost had his fingers bitten off when knifing the throat of a VC.

A lifetime friend, lives on Fox Island, WA, a draftee did his tour in a recon platoon carrying a shotgun, pulled many LPs (Listening posts) by yourself, separated from your squad by a kilometer m/l in the middle of the night in the jungle black as an ace of spades sorting through the jungle sounds when the hiss of the radio when checking in sounded like shout in the night. Spooky! We motor home and fish together on a regular basis.

My Military stories are different as they were as a sailor in the Coast Guard (yes the Coast Guard went to Vietnam also) patrolling the coast and river mouths but not in the jungle, not the same kind of risk...., boarded junks, arrested smugglers- suspected VC, support fire on the villages.. rode out unbelievable storms in typhoon season. Deadly sea snakes with no known anti- venom serum ... picked up bodies, wreckage's...at sea for 6 to 8 weeks at a time...hell on wheels on R&R...a draftee also.....

I am friends with and am surrounded by warriors! Regular guys in the everyday world, certainly not wannabes, maybe has-beens, and will only talk about their experiences with another vet who has been there. As a whole most were draftees--not by choice...

I am telling you this as for food for thought, on how many warriors are really out there, who have been there, and if pressed into a life or death corner would be very dangerous.

How about some of you? Does your relatives, friends have a story to tell?
_________________
Tito Geo

Thank You Pappy Geo I liked your post. :asian: It makes people think about those that were in the recognized wars. Think back to your friends and family from the time period between Vietnam and ODS or the Gulf War in the early 90's. In the twenty years between there were many little unrecognized wars and conflicts, that our men and women did their duty to this Country U.S.A. They may not be able to talk about it, yet if they are having trouble, ask thme if they need to talk anyways. I know, I have friends from this time period who I have listened too, from time to time, just to let them talk and or vent or express their feelings.


With Respect
:asian:

 

[tshadowchaser]

The best any of us can do is to try and live life like a warrior, I could care less what anybody else thinks of or calls me....and that covers a lot more than training in any martial art

I couldn't agree more

I know, I have friends from this time period who I have listened too, from time to time, just to let them talk and or vent or express their feelings.

How true. Sometime they just need to expres themsleves . No comment is needed in return, just an ear to talk to and a mouth that dose not repeat what the ear hears.

Pappy thank for the story and your list of friends it opens the mind to what is out there

 

[loki09789]

Pappy Geo,

I would hesitate to call these types 'has beens' because that would imply that they have forgotten the warrior traditions. It seems that you as a group are keeping the most important aspects alive, loyalty and espirit de corps...

In the Marines we would say that there are no 'ex marines' only former. I think that would hold true here too.

Paul M

 

[Pappy Geo]

I would accept former warrior, sure sounds better than a has-been!

 

[loki09789]

"Here's to us, and those like us...Damn few left"
(Gardens of Stone)

Amen Brother

Paul M

 

[DoxN4cer]

"Here's to us, and those like us...Damn few left"
(Gardens of Stone)

Amen Brother

Paul M

... and to our fallen brothers in "the Gan", Iraq and elsewhere.

TK

 

[Pappy Geo]

So the consensus seems to be that there are different stages of being a warrior.

1. Wannabe warriors

2. Former warriors

3. Warriors in reserve

4. Trained warriors but not experienced

5. Experienced warriors

What about warriors in the busines world? Like J. Paul getty, Howard Hughes, Donald Trump, just to name a few. If being a warrior is a state of mind would they not be classified as warriors?

Food for thought............

 

[loki09789]

I would say yes, it could be seen that way. Especially when you look at the 80's business schools of Japan where the motto was "business is war" and books like The Book of Five Rings and Sun Tzu's Art of War were required reading.

Also yes, if you consider the number of military officers who get snatched up by businesses when these guys retire/get out.

Paul M.