The JKA: past and present?

[Grenadier]

Looking at the past history of the Japan Karate Association, it's no secret that they've been rather reluctant to promote non-Japanese to the higher dan rankings in the past.

With the SKIF and ISKF gaining in strength and numbers throughout the years, has the JKA outlook changed, regarding the promotion of non-Japanese?

 

[Victor Smith]

Interesting question of course.

On the other hand it begs another question about high rank.

While systems vary on ranking structures, let's take an often mentioned point, say the highest performance level is 5th dan, why should anyone worry about higher rank, as it should be nothing but adminstrative burden, and by structure only a few should ever be selected for those posts?

Makes me wonder I've watched JKA video's of camp instruction by very, very senior instructors and don't see anything taking place that a 2nd dan could run. So if someone should have higher rank, and not just a function of time in the art, administrative responsiblity aside, what skills should that senior instructor possess to equate to that rank.

the endless discussion, imvho

 

[Makalakumu]

Interesting question of course.

On the other hand it begs another question about high rank.

While systems vary on ranking structures, let's take an often mentioned point, say the highest performance level is 5th dan, why should anyone worry about higher rank, as it should be nothing but adminstrative burden, and by structure only a few should ever be selected for those posts?

Makes me wonder I've watched JKA video's of camp instruction by very, very senior instructors and don't see anything taking place that a 2nd dan could run. So if someone should have higher rank, and not just a function of time in the art, administrative responsiblity aside, what skills should that senior instructor possess to equate to that rank.

the endless discussion, imvho

I think that is the nature of the art. There's not a lot of things that people learn except new kata at the higher ranks. There's no new esoteric principles no new skills, it's all about refining what you already know.

I worked out with the highest ranked people in the world in the SKIF and there certainly was a high level of zen like austerity in the technique, but there wasn't anything beyond that. I came away disappointed.

 

[Victor Smith]

I guess it's somewhat different for me, for I spent over 10 years training with Tristan Sutrisno, an Indonesian Shotokan stylist whose father trained under Funakoshi Ginchin in the 30's, and the Shotokan I experienced is very, very different in it's texture.

What's for the advanced practitionier. Incredible depth in 'bunkai' for the Shotokan kata, advanced training practices that don't begin till 3rd dan, totally restructuring the underlying template of technique, and also includes aikido, indonesian silat tjimande as well as a very complete kobudo system of study, with extremely logical form progression.

I've never been able to undestand the difference between his art and the JKA. They also only utilize 5 degrees of dan, following the Funakoshi standards.

 

[JohnASE]

Looking at the past history of the Japan Karate Association, it's no secret that they've been rather reluctant to promote non-Japanese to the higher dan rankings in the past.

With the SKIF and ISKF gaining in strength and numbers throughout the years, has the JKA outlook changed, regarding the promotion of non-Japanese?

IMHO, the "reluctance" you talk about is a means of maintaining control. In any group, there are differences of opinion. I'd guess that there are fewer differences of opinion with other people from your own country and culture than there are with people from others. If the powers that be want the organization run their way, they need peers who think as they do.

I would guess that the leaders of the JKA feel the organization would best be served by keeping control in Japan. I'm sure they understand they could increase membership by loosening up, but at what cost? Is a bigger, fragmented group better than a smaller homogeneous group? Again, I'm just guessing that this is what they're thinking.

With this in mind, no, I don't think their "outlook" has changed. I feel like Okazaki's split from the JKA is still kinda fresh, but Kanazawa, Nishiyama, Oshima and many others left long ago and their outlook didn't change. Maybe some day, but I don't see it happening soon.

 

[OldKarateGuy]

I don't think it's any secret that the JKA wishes to maintain control of the world-wide organization. As the overseas instructors age, younger (promising) instructors are sent from Japan to assist, and eventually, take over the foreign affiliates. Maybe this is for two reasons: one monetary and the other a desire to maintain some sense that the Japanese essence is not diluted. I think the breakaways ( by ISKF and from KUGB) were really more about money and autonomy than whether natives could be promoted past a certain rank. For what it's worth, I believe the US JKA affiliates now have two non-Japanese 6th dans, something that never happened before.

With all due respect to other posts, I can't believe that anyone seriously thinks that your basic 2nd dan could duplicate a training camp, with say, Shiina Sensei who is in Florida this week. The man is a 7th dan, and a past kate and kumite champion. If such instructors often emphasize basics, it may be they see our techniques and training mindset as somewhat deficient compared to their own.

 

[Grenadier]

With all due respect to other posts, I can't believe that anyone seriously thinks that your basic 2nd dan could duplicate a training camp, with say, Shiina Sensei who is in Florida this week. The man is a 7th dan, and a past kata and kumite champion. If such instructors often emphasize basics, it may be they see our techniques and training mindset as somewhat deficient compared to their own.

That's not unusual at all, from the higher ups... I remember seeing Mikami Sensei giving a clinic, and he spent the vast majority of the time covering fundamental training (primarily gyaku-zuki, koshino-kaiten, etc).

 

[Ray B]

Interesting question of course.

On the other hand it begs another question about high rank.

While systems vary on ranking structures, let's take an often mentioned point, say the highest performance level is 5th dan, why should anyone worry about higher rank, as it should be nothing but adminstrative burden, and by structure only a few should ever be selected for those posts?

Makes me wonder I've watched JKA video's of camp instruction by very, very senior instructors and don't see anything taking place that a 2nd dan could run. So if someone should have higher rank, and not just a function of time in the art, administrative responsiblity aside, what skills should that senior instructor possess to equate to that rank.

the endless discussion, imvho

IMO, high rank impresses people who are not "in the know".
It's that whole Spinal Tap mentality of "If 10 is the highest we're going to 11!"

Those who have their time in and who truely understands the MAs knows at 4th or 5th dan it's all about personal development. If you are independent and a 4/5 dan, then there's no more road to travel. So now you need to go back a look for detail.

Oshima never got more than Godan from Funakoshi and will never accept any more because it was not from his sensei. Correct me if I'm wrong but all admin in his camp are godan. I like this. Everyone knows that he is top dog but he doesn't need a plethera of stripes or titles. Not even a black gi to distinguish him from the rest.

 

[OldKarateGuy]

Back to the original post, I think Kanazawa left the JKA over a philosophical issue - whether to accept techniques from other styles (SKI) or to maintain purity/isolation (depending on your POV) of only the traditional shotokan syllabus (JKA). The ISKF left the parent organization over - mainly - whether the USA based ISKF could continue to administer (and control) the JKA affiliates in Central and South America. Neither group (SKIF or ISKF) would allow non-Japanese management to any significant degree, I don't think.

The JKA continues to (attempt to) manage affiliates world-wide with Japanese instructors, although there has been some progress in terms of promoting non-Japanese around the world. I think that in the U S, the current JKA-sanctioned organizations are generally headed by elderly master-level instructors, with not many younger Japanese here now waiting to take over.

Whether this will ever change is one of those "Who Knows?" deals, I think. If it does change, though, I do not think it will be done happily or willingly by the JKA management. Whether such a change would be good for karate, I leave to others.