The cost of Ego, disrespect, and the failure of teachers and students.

[drop bear]

You cannot define core principles by one technique. That would be like defining a what is a dog and what's not a dog by the shape of it's tail. Lips and teeth do not make a human. Nor do lips and teeth define the core principle of what makes a human a human.
This is the same with martial arts and fighting systems.

Leg locks in this case break the core principles of bjj

Or maybe they don't.

Because the trick isn't bending the spoon.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Leg locks in this case break the core principles of bjj

Or maybe they don't.

Because the trick isn't bending the spoon.

Video sounds as if an assumption about what makes good BJJ. From an outsider looking in. I didn't have that assumption about Jujitsu. I've seen too many leg locks to think that way.

The assumptions that he made about BJJ are ones I have never made about BJJ and the risk of dealing with someone who does BJJ. If I had to take a direction on this, it would be more in line that he limited his understanding of BJJ and it may have been been a sport limitation of BJJ. We see Martial arts locks as submissions. But in reality they aren't submissions or locks. They are breaks and tears. You lock someone's arm or leg, do the damage and then you return to your feet ASAP. Then force your opponent to fight with a damaged limb. Like that lady who had her ankle broken.

So I'm going to go with the fact that Leg locks do not break any core principles of BJJ.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Leg locks in this case break the core principles of bjj

Or maybe they don't.

Because the trick isn't bending the spoon.

Yeah, I have to say that the evolution of leg locks didn’t change or break the core principles of BJJ. What it did was add additional options to a simplified tactical rule of thumb that was based on those core principles.

BJJ has always been about finding advantageous positions so that you can control and harm an opponent and they can’t control or harm you, then use that positional control to end a fight by striking, strangling, or isolating a limb and breaking it.

The old simplified tactical rule of thumb was that you achieved that goal by taking someone down, getting past their legs to control the upper body, then applying a finish from there. The newer understanding is that properly applied leg entanglements can be dominant control positions just like side mount, full mount, or back mount. The principles haven’t changed, we’ve just learned more control positions.

BTW, this process has also developed in parallel with the understanding that submissions in general can also be dominant control positions in their own right, even if you don’t manage to finish the submission.

 

[jayoliver00]

The fight didn't start in that position. It also didn't end in that position. To pick a specific point in the fight and to ask that question as if that's the only thing that happened is not an honest analysis of what went on. I've seen enough people actually use Wing Chun to know that what he was doing lacked Wing Chun techniques.

The fight started with him holding his head at one side and hooking him on the other. There's no hooks in WC? The fight proceeded & ended with him just roughing the kid around, not really trying to hurt him.

This is how it works with most things. The core principles of a car is what makes a car. The core principles of a bicycle is what makes it a bicycle and not a motorcycle, or moped., or scooter.

You cannot take the core principles of BJJ and say that you are doing Kung Fu. I cannot do Jow Ga Kung Fu without the core principles of Jow Ga.
You cannot define core principles by one technique. That would be like defining a what is a dog and what's not a dog by the shape of it's tail. Lips and teeth do not make a human. Nor do lips and teeth define the core principle of what makes a human a human.
This is the same with martial arts and fighting systems.

He Boxes also, and looks like some BJJ.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, I have to say that the evolution of leg locks didn’t change or break the core principles of BJJ. What it did was add additional options to a simplified tactical rule of thumb that was based on those core principles.

BJJ has always been about finding advantageous positions so that you can control and harm an opponent and they can’t control or harm you, then use that positional control to end a fight by striking, strangling, or isolating a limb and breaking it.

The old simplified tactical rule of thumb was that you achieved that goal by taking someone down, getting past their legs to control the upper body, then applying a finish from there. The newer understanding is that properly applied leg entanglements can be dominant control positions just like side mount, full mount, or back mount. The principles haven’t changed, we’ve just learned more control positions.

BTW, this process has also developed in parallel with the understanding that submissions in general can also be dominant control positions in their own right, even if you don’t manage to finish the submission.

As big an evolution as karate adopting leg kicks or chun using a hook punch.

 

[JowGaWolf]

As big an evolution as karate adopting leg kicks or chun using a hook punch.

Wing Chun not having or using a punch always amazes me. I sometimes find myself wanting to question that reality.

 

[Anarax]

Because he's just roughing him up by swatting like punches. They weren't serious punches. Most of them were to the body, when his head was completely open.

He alternated between the head and body several times, thus he didn't resort to bodyshots out of restraint but due to lack of advantageous positioning. Waldo starts to stand back up as he's grabbing Rashun limiting Rashun's ability to hit him in the head, thus Rashun wasn't choosing to not hit him in the head. Rashun simply lacked advantageous positing to consistently land headshots. When he was in said position he struck Waldo in the head.

What belt are you in BJJ?

Guard passing and positioning are BJJ fundamentals that most schools will teach you if/when you go to a BJJ class.

I've trained enough people with zero skill nor training to know that you're wrong. And I can also tell when someone's not really going full out.

"Full out" is a relative term. A pro fighter's "going easy" is more than a recreational martials artist's "full out". That doesn't mean the recreationalist wasn't going "full out" just because they weren't able to do much to their opponent. The volatile emotional state of the individual doesn't guarantee a more optimal outcome for them. Rashun was very emotional and was trying to hurt Waldo, he was just ineffective in doing so. Rashun showed what his decades of training taught him, unfortunately not much at all.

And what's the point of the last comment about the 250lb guy?

Quite simply that Rashun felt comfortable escalating the situation with someone that didn't appear very threatening.

 

[jayoliver00]

He alternated between the head and body several times, thus he didn't resort to bodyshots out of restraint but due to lack of advantageous positioning. Waldo starts to stand back up as he's grabbing Rashun limiting Rashun's ability to hit him in the head, thus Rashun wasn't choosing to not hit him in the head. Rashun simply lacked advantageous positing to consistently land headshots. When he was in said position he struck Waldo in the head.

He clearly didn't hit him hard with the head shot, on purpose.

Guard passing and positioning are BJJ fundamentals that most schools will teach you if/when you go to a BJJ class.

No shame in being a White belt.

"Full out" is a relative term. A pro fighter's "going easy" is more than a recreational martials artist's "full out". That doesn't mean the recreationalist wasn't going "full out" just because they weren't able to do much to their opponent. The volatile emotional state of the individual doesn't guarantee a more optimal outcome for them. Rashun was very emotional and was trying to hurt Waldo, he was just ineffective in doing so. Rashun showed what his decades of training taught him, unfortunately not much at all.

Nah, he was toying with the kid.

Quite simply that Rashun felt comfortable escalating the situation with someone that didn't appear very threatening.

That's why he didn't go full power on the kid.