Tech. question
- Thread starter terryl965
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terryl965 said:
The ITF doesn't call it a roundhouse, it's called a turning kick, which may be why you're having trouble finding information. However, I have too little specific information on how the WTF performs the kick to tell you how it's different. Here's how I was taught turning kick (there are variation, such as target, but this is the basic kick):
Lift your kicking leg and pivot until your knee is pointing at the target, with your knee bent and your kicking foot pulled back toward your butt; your entire leg should be level with the floor. Your foot, led by the ball of the foot with the toes pulled back, travels in an arc around your knee, striking the target with the heel slightly higher than the ball of the foot. This is for a belt-level kick. To kick higher or lower, raise or lower the leg at the hip. For high targets, especially round targets like the head, the tool is changed to the instep (round target, flat tool; flat target, round tool). As the kick improves, instead of pointing the knee first, the kick comes from the ground, the leg is raised, and the speed and power of the kick come from the hip rather than the knee, but it is taught the way I described it first so that students don't do a sloppy front kick in place of a turning kick.
For sparring, there is a variation on turning kick that comes up like a front kick (straight through, knee up, foot down) and then, as the kicker pivots, the hip pulls forward and the knee turns as the kick is delivered, but does not have to be parallel to the floor as above.
I hope this makes sense; it's easy for me to show it (in fact, I just taught one of my students on Thursday, since testing was the week before), but it's hard to put into writing.
OP
OP
Kacey what you are calling a turning kick I learned many years ago as a spinning kick using the ball of the foot! It is so funny to me that alot of kicks are basically the same but with different names from different organization.
Thanks for your answer.
terry
Thanks for your answer.
terry
Miles
Senior Master
When I was originally taught round/turning kick (70's ITF), we raised our knee up and then turned our hip over before torquing the body forward. We kicked only with the ball of the foot (no instep kicks).
As I began training with other instructors (Kukki-TKD), I was taught to raise the knee and torque the body nearly simultaneously and that at the apex of the motion, my knee should be through target line. We did kicks with both ball of the foot and the instep (former for breaking, latter for sparring).
Miles
As I began training with other instructors (Kukki-TKD), I was taught to raise the knee and torque the body nearly simultaneously and that at the apex of the motion, my knee should be through target line. We did kicks with both ball of the foot and the instep (former for breaking, latter for sparring).
Miles
Last Fearner
2nd Black Belt
One answer to this question is that the WTF does not teach roundhouse kicks. The WTF does not teach any techniques. The WTF is not a school of instruction and there is no curriculum. It is an organization for managing sport competition. Even when they were involved in certifying Black Belt ranks, there were no "WTF Instructors" who taught students how to do things. Instructors learn from their seniors in their Kwan, or associations. Those Kwans and associations became "affilliated" with the WTF, or offered instruction of Poomsae required by WTF, but that has no influence on techniques.
Almost any Taekwondo school anywhere (ITF, ATA, USAT, or whatever) is going to teach a roundhouse kick with similar movements. The textbook kick lifts the knee, the lower leg goes horizontal, and the foot follows the knee to the target. The pivoting of the hips stop when the knee and hips are sidways and in line with the target, and the lower leg is then extended to strike. The striking tool can be the ball or the instep, and either can be used for any target. The ball does more concentrated damage, and the instep slaps, and will do more broad surface damage.
The next variation is a shortcut for street, or sparring, that takes the knee, and lower leg at a 45 degree angle. Finally, the deceptive kick, is to approach like a front kick, and pivot at the last second to switch to a roundhouse. Textbook has the hips fully pivoted to a horizontal position, while the shortcut strikes with the hips pivoted half way at 45 degrees.
I have seen these variations taught by most Taekwondo instructors and we did them in the ATA back in the 70's. However, it wasn't until I joined with a Jidokwan Master (WTF certified) that I saw anyone break boards with an instep roundhouse (I thought that was crazy as we had always used the ball for breaking, and instep for sparring.
The term "roundhouse" kick is one of the many western nicknames for techniques. Punches in boxing were called "roundhouse punches" long before Martial Art came to the West. The term just carried over to describe the rounding motion of the approach for this kick. The traditional Korean term is "Dollyo Chagi" which means "turning kick" because you are turning your hips as you are kicking. A "spinning kick" on the other hand is traditionally called a "Momtong Dollyo Chagi" which means "body turning kick" because you are turning your body backwards before kicking (also called "back spin kicks" because you are spinning backwards and kicking).
CM D. J. Eisenhart
Almost any Taekwondo school anywhere (ITF, ATA, USAT, or whatever) is going to teach a roundhouse kick with similar movements. The textbook kick lifts the knee, the lower leg goes horizontal, and the foot follows the knee to the target. The pivoting of the hips stop when the knee and hips are sidways and in line with the target, and the lower leg is then extended to strike. The striking tool can be the ball or the instep, and either can be used for any target. The ball does more concentrated damage, and the instep slaps, and will do more broad surface damage.
The next variation is a shortcut for street, or sparring, that takes the knee, and lower leg at a 45 degree angle. Finally, the deceptive kick, is to approach like a front kick, and pivot at the last second to switch to a roundhouse. Textbook has the hips fully pivoted to a horizontal position, while the shortcut strikes with the hips pivoted half way at 45 degrees.
I have seen these variations taught by most Taekwondo instructors and we did them in the ATA back in the 70's. However, it wasn't until I joined with a Jidokwan Master (WTF certified) that I saw anyone break boards with an instep roundhouse (I thought that was crazy as we had always used the ball for breaking, and instep for sparring.
The term "roundhouse" kick is one of the many western nicknames for techniques. Punches in boxing were called "roundhouse punches" long before Martial Art came to the West. The term just carried over to describe the rounding motion of the approach for this kick. The traditional Korean term is "Dollyo Chagi" which means "turning kick" because you are turning your hips as you are kicking. A "spinning kick" on the other hand is traditionally called a "Momtong Dollyo Chagi" which means "body turning kick" because you are turning your body backwards before kicking (also called "back spin kicks" because you are spinning backwards and kicking).
CM D. J. Eisenhart
OP
OP
One answer to this question is that the WTF does not teach roundhouse kicks. The WTF does not teach any techniques. The WTF is not a school of instruction and there is no curriculum. It is an organization for managing sport competition. Even when they were involved in certifying Black Belt ranks, there were no "WTF Instructors" who taught students how to do things. Instructors learn from their seniors in their Kwan, or associations. Those Kwans and associations became "affilliated" with the WTF, or offered instruction of Poomsae required by WTF, but that has no influence on techniques.
Thank you Last Fearner you win, you wae the onlt person to catch the mistake in the thread, the WTF has bever thought techs. See I posted it that way because almost everybody associates Olympic style teaching with the WTF. I commend you on your actual knowledge and the insight to corrrect the playing field here on MT.
Terry
Thank you Last Fearner you win, you wae the onlt person to catch the mistake in the thread, the WTF has bever thought techs. See I posted it that way because almost everybody associates Olympic style teaching with the WTF. I commend you on your actual knowledge and the insight to corrrect the playing field here on MT.
Terry
There is no difference in the technical aspects of a roundhouse kick when it comes to WTF (the 5 kwans as was pointed out) and ITF. I've gotten my BB in WTF and when we moved I started attending a school that where the instructors taught ITF then moved to include WTF.
for a right leg rear roundhouse; from a fighting stance, raise your right knee until its at least belt high and chamber your leg, pivot about 90 degrees to your left on the ball of your left foot, point you knee at the target then (here's room for some argument) unchamber and hit the targe with the the ball of your foot/ top of your foot.
I've always been taught that the ball of your foot should be used, but slip into a pair of boots, dress shoes and even some sneakers and you'd be VERY hard pressed to get your toes to pull back enough to use the ball of your foot - which is why the top of the foot is what I've always used.
Also, the front/ lead leg round house makes for a quicker attack - most folks are used to see a rear leg coming, not so much the front leg.
for a right leg rear roundhouse; from a fighting stance, raise your right knee until its at least belt high and chamber your leg, pivot about 90 degrees to your left on the ball of your left foot, point you knee at the target then (here's room for some argument) unchamber and hit the targe with the the ball of your foot/ top of your foot.
I've always been taught that the ball of your foot should be used, but slip into a pair of boots, dress shoes and even some sneakers and you'd be VERY hard pressed to get your toes to pull back enough to use the ball of your foot - which is why the top of the foot is what I've always used.
Also, the front/ lead leg round house makes for a quicker attack - most folks are used to see a rear leg coming, not so much the front leg.
Marginal
Senior Master
fireman00 said:
When you're wearing shoes, you don't really need to pull your toes back that far anyway. The shoe reinforces the toes. (Especailly dress shoes, boots etc.) Unless you're kicking something obscenely hard like a steel pole moored in cement, it's not an issue.
matt.m
Senior Master
Yep, I understand the difference now. My school teaches the old school crisp chamber, straight line good old fashioned side kick. My friend who goes to a school that teaches a lot of the olympic style of stuff did a flip kick. He brought his leg up like a half baked round kick and shot his foot out.
I don't go to his school, I don't train under his instructors, the guy is my friend and all. However that was a flip kick, not a side kick or a round kick. Quick point fighting technique, nothing street worthy.
I don't go to his school, I don't train under his instructors, the guy is my friend and all. However that was a flip kick, not a side kick or a round kick. Quick point fighting technique, nothing street worthy.
I've learned a slighty different technique on targeting, it seems. After lifting the leg, we are taught to point the knee a little bit beyond the target (if done with the right leg, then the knee points slightly to the left of the target). This is to help add a lot more penetration in the follow through, especially if it's done with the ball of the foot.
Anyone else learn this variation?
Anyone else learn this variation?
