Teaching Students

[terryl965]

Why if we are instructor do we not see the value of teaching students? I know let me get on my rant here, students come in all shape and sizes all kind of walks of life women, men, teenagers and the forbidden child. Here lies the problem with alot of folks the see absolutely no value in teaching out of shape people or people that are there for exorcise or the forbidden child Why is this? What is the real reason behind teachimg these types is it fear that they do not have the patience to do it, do they feel they have to must SD principle in there core to be of service to them or is it just plain and other discremination towards certain types in the MA world.

I knw alot of fine instructor on this site and I know what they would say but what about those of you that really feel this way I can hear from you as well, what is the true meaning of not teaching thse types of people?

Lets also keep this converstation as respectful as we can. Really looking for some great decussion here.

 

[Kacey]

You've seen my class - how many places would take my 2 students with cognitive disabilities? One of them was actually in a McDojo before he started with me; as nearly as I can find out (his step-father has told me damned near nothing in 6 years) he must have been the only person this particular McDojo has ever not renewed a contract for.

When I started TKD, I was certainly not anyone's preferred student, except, perhaps, for age. Within certain limits,I will teach almost anyone who comes in the door. The limits I place have more to do with the facility itself - age, mostly, as the nearest bathroom is quite a distance away for little kids, but also physical ability, as the room is down a flight of stairs, and if you can't make it down the stairs, there's really nothing I can do about it - but other than that, come and join us!

 

[terryl965]

You've seen my class - how many places would take my 2 students with cognitive disabilities? One of them was actually in a McDojo before he started with me; as nearly as I can find out (his step-father has told me damned near nothing in 6 years) he must have been the only person this particular McDojo has ever not renewed a contract for.

When I started TKD, I was certainly not anyone's preferred student, except, perhaps, for age. Within certain limits,I will teach almost anyone who comes in the door. The limits I place have more to do with the facility itself - age, mostly, as the nearest bathroom is quite a distance away for little kids, but also physical ability, as the room is down a flight of stairs, and if you can't make it down the stairs, there's really nothing I can do about it - but other than that, come and join us!

Kacey you are right you have the gift for teaching and you are a very special person, but still alot of folks put limits on what they will and will not take. You do a great job for what the Y has given you and I would train there anytime

. You are a saint to so many of your students and they are happy and that is so very important these days.

 

[IcemanSK]

I remember a conversation with my friend who has spent 40+ years in MA. He talks of days when BB's were "the elite" of society in his view. He has never had much patience for teaching kids. One day, he was lamenting having to teach his kids class again & I said, "all students can't be 16 year old brown belts." He's a thoughtful man & brought up that conversation a week later. He said, "you're right, most folks that want to teach MA get the idea in their head that they will always teach their 'ideal student.' In my case, I want to teach folks with a lot of knowledge & a lot of energy to try new things."

I have my favorite type of student to teach, also. But I've learned the incredible gift teaching someone who isn't like "my ideal" really can be. One would think that because I have a disability that I'd jump at the chance to teach someone who also struggles. Truthfully, it's not easy for me either, but I do it in order to learn how to teach everyone better.

 

[tellner]

One sort of teacher selects only the strongest and weeds out everyone else.
Another sort takes the weak and helps them to become strong.

The first may produce more champions, but the second has to develop into a better teacher and leaves the world a better place. Besides, the naturals often quit when they get to the end of where pure talent and genetics will take them. The pluggers are used to adversity and picking themselves up to go back into the fray. In the end, they tend to eat the naturals' lunch.

 

[Miles]

Within certain limits,I will teach almost anyone who comes in the door. The limits I place have more to do with the facility itself - age, mostly, as the nearest bathroom is quite a distance away for little kids, but also physical ability, as the room is down a flight of stairs, and if you can't make it down the stairs, there's really nothing I can do about it - but other than that, come and join us!

I run a similar program, except you have to walk upstairs to get to the dojang. My ideal student is anyone who is willing to learn, regardless of age/sex/weight/race. Everyone comes to class with some sort of baggage, but as long as they show up for class, I'll teach them.

Miles

 

[terryl965]

I run a similar program, except you have to walk upstairs to get to the dojang. My ideal student is anyone who is willing to learn, regardless of age/sex/weight/race. Everyone comes to class with some sort of baggage, but as long as they show up for class, I'll teach them.

Miles

I agree Miles if they have the desire than I will take the time to teach them.

 

[dancingalone]

It depends on your goals as an instructor. My teacher doesn't accept students lightly and he screens people by their level of athleticism, fitness, and emotional maturity. As a result, virtually all of my fellow students (we only number six right now) are men in their 20-40s who hold similar types of jobs. We certainly aren't the most inclusive group out there, but our similar backgrounds also lets us train efficiently. We have no issues with ego or pride and everyone can keep up physically and mentally with what Sensei has in store for the day. Given his sometimes severe training methods, I completely understand why his screening is strong.

 

[turtle]

My ideal student is anyone who is willing to learn, regardless of age/sex/weight/race.

This is a terrific philosophy. I've seen so many students come through the door who might look like ideal students on the surface, but they have so much resistance to the actual learning process, that they don't last long.

 

[Blindside]

If this topic is open beyond the TKD instructors....

Personally I have very little desire to teach kids below about 11/12. Most kids below that age really don't have the ability to retain the fairly large amounts of information that kenpo requires without making up a kiddie ranking system. Even the few kids who do manage to retain the physical material don't really get the principles and concepts until much later. This isn't to say the kids don't get benefits from it, I've seen plenty of kids who have, but isn't "martial arts" that is giving them that benefit, it is simply discipline and regular work outs that they could get equally well from soccer.

I don't see that selecting students by age makes me a poor instructor. An instructors job is to transmit the art, having a classroom of kids where you know that 98% of the kids won't make it past the second belt isn't really transmitting that art efficiently. It keeps the lights on, it pays the rent, but it isn't transmitting the art well. Given that my time is limited I'd rather spend it with students who can retain material and grow in the art. Above that minimum age, I don't care, if you want to learn, I'll teach you.

As for Kali, I suspect most parents would frown on me teaching their eight year old bladed weapon use.

Lamont

 

[morph4me]

Personally I have very little desire to teach kids below about 11/12. Most kids below that age really don't have the ability to retain the fairly large amounts of information that kenpo requires without making up a kiddie ranking system. Even the few kids who do manage to retain the physical material don't really get the principles and concepts until much later. This isn't to say the kids don't get benefits from it, I've seen plenty of kids who have, but isn't "martial arts" that is giving them that benefit, it is simply discipline and regular work outs that they could get equally well from soccer.

I have to agree, I teach aikido and I find teaching kids very frustrating.

I don't see that selecting students by age makes me a poor instructor. An instructors job is to transmit the art, having a classroom of kids where you know that 98% of the kids won't make it past the second belt isn't really transmitting that art efficiently. It keeps the lights on, it pays the rent, but it isn't transmitting the art well. Given that my time is limited I'd rather spend it with students who can retain material and grow in the art. Above that minimum age, I don't care, if you want to learn, I'll teach you.

I'm in a much better position in that I don't own a dojo, I teach at dojo's owned by friends and at the occasional seminar. I wouldn't refuse to teach kids, but I tend to work on very basic skills and play games that put those skills to use, and end up feeling like a babysitter. I definetly prefer teaching older teens and adults. I realize that there are exceptions among kidsbut they tend to be few and far between. Terry's kids fore example were a genuine pleasure to have around, they were serious and talented, but you don't run into too many like them.

 

[terryl965]

I have to agree, I teach aikido and I find teaching kids very frustrating.



I'm in a much better position in that I don't own a dojo, I teach at dojo's owned by friends and at the occasional seminar. I wouldn't refuse to teach kids, but I tend to work on very basic skills and play games that put those skills to use, and end up feeling like a babysitter. I definetly prefer teaching older teens and adults. I realize that there are exceptions among kidsbut they tend to be few and far between. Terry's kids fore example were a genuine pleasure to have around, they were serious and talented, but you don't run into too many like them.

Thank you Tom, they have learn well from there instructor

 

[Miles]

If this topic is open beyond the TKD instructors....

Personally I have very little desire to teach kids below about 11/12. Most kids below that age really don't have the ability to retain the fairly large amounts of information that kenpo requires without making up a kiddie ranking system.

Absolutely this is open to anyone!

When I first began teaching, I only taught adults. I thought I would never like teaching kids. Then my instructor opened a branch program at a Y and put me in charge. What a learning experience....for me. After about a year, I discovered I liked teaching the kids. They asked crazy questions I would not be prepared for, they had lots of energy and they made me work as an instructor to keep their attention.

Even the few kids who do manage to retain the physical material don't really get the principles and concepts until much later. This isn't to say the kids don't get benefits from it, I've seen plenty of kids who have, but isn't "martial arts" that is giving them that benefit, it is simply discipline and regular work outs that they could get equally well from soccer.

I agree that one aspect that the martial arts or any organized sport teaches is discipline and physical training. But I think martial arts are important for kids as they are more likely to need the training than most adults. Think about it, unless you are a bouncer or a body guard, most people haven't had a fight since the schoolyard.

I don't see that selecting students by age makes me a poor instructor. An instructors job is to transmit the art, having a classroom of kids where you know that 98% of the kids won't make it past the second belt isn't really transmitting that art efficiently. It keeps the lights on, it pays the rent, but it isn't transmitting the art well. Given that my time is limited I'd rather spend it with students who can retain material and grow in the art. Above that minimum age, I don't care, if you want to learn, I'll teach you.

As for Kali, I suspect most parents would frown on me teaching their eight year old bladed weapon use. Lamont

I am a student in the kali class at the school where I teach TKD, and that instructor does not teach kids for precisely the reason you mentioned.

Miles

 

[granfire]

Well, paying bills is not an unethical reason to teach people. Those who never make it past second belt, or quit right after tieing the Black belt around their waist....we also teach things besides the kicking and punching and not everybody is receptive to it.

but I also grant not everybody has the qualities it takes to teach kids. They are a challenge, especially on them days when they not even have the attention span of a gnat. And usually the whole class has it on the same day.

But on the note of paying bills....though it's not the most expensive activity in town (ok, speaking from my own experience, while your mileage may vary) do any of you have programs in place to help pay the way for less fortunate kids? My instructor was planning on something like that, maybe in conjunction with the Girls and Boys Club, but the idea was shot down from the outgoing director in the region and has not been picked up again.

 

[terryl965]

Well, paying bills is not an unethical reason to teach people. Those who never make it past second belt, or quit right after tieing the Black belt around their waist....we also teach things besides the kicking and punching and not everybody is receptive to it.

but I also grant not everybody has the qualities it takes to teach kids. They are a challenge, especially on them days when they not even have the attention span of a gnat. And usually the whole class has it on the same day.

But on the note of paying bills....though it's not the most expensive activity in town (ok, speaking from my own experience, while your mileage may vary) do any of you have programs in place to help pay the way for less fortunate kids? My instructor was planning on something like that, maybe in conjunction with the Girls and Boys Club, but the idea was shot down from the outgoing director in the region and has not been picked up again.

Look into city grants to teach the uner privelefge childern in the nieghborhood also they have greanrs in place to keep them astive and away from gangs. If you really want to go that route check with your city councilmen.

 

[YoungMan]

Teaching the athletic and talented is like teaching the advanced placement kids in school: its easy and everyone wants to do it. Realize, if you're athletic, fast, talented, and strong you wouldn't need martial arts in the first place. The problem students are the ones who need it the most.

 

[K31]

Albert Einstein was said by one of his mathematics teachers to be "unteachable". Audie Murphy, the most highly decorated US soldier in WWII was rejected by two other services and the Army before finally being accepted by the Army because or his stature. What's an "ideal" student? I've seen students in my Dojang being given special attention because they looked like good potential tournament candidates. Is that good or bad? I think it's good to help someone live up to their potential no matter what it is. We just had a girl join our class who has disabilities and I think it's great. She's an orange belt so she obviously also trained somewhere before. There's two places I've been in my life where I've never seen any discrimination based on one's abilities or physical makeup. One is in weight training (I'm talking about a real weight training gym, not the trendy, excess-spandex, pickup gym) and the second in the martial arts.

 

[Laurentkd]

Absolutely this is open to anyone!

When I first began teaching, I only taught adults. I thought I would never like teaching kids. Then my instructor opened a branch program at a Y and put me in charge. What a learning experience....for me. After about a year, I discovered I liked teaching the kids. They asked crazy questions I would not be prepared for, they had lots of energy and they made me work as an instructor to keep their attention.

I agree with this one!
If you can teach a kids class for an hour, adult classes are suddenly a breeze to teach!!

 

[IcemanSK]

I'm one that always kinda figured that teaching kids was a "necessary evil" when teaching Taekwondo. I would always have rather taught adults. But when I started, I really grew to love it! I can't imagine running a program without tteachin kids, now!

 

[kaizasosei]

Another sort takes the weak and helps them to become strong.

that's true, but if a person is not open and really interested in martial arts and learning in the first place, there's no point-even if he's talented.

i had to really laugh when i thought about aikido and kids. what a combination. actually, i have lots of experience with both kids and aikido, but never together. it's the fist time that i thought about it, and i just had to keep chuckling. maybe it's the reflection of the adults themselves not knowing whats going on, but i just kept imagining most kids that are basically not interested in any form of philosophy or complicated technique. -'oh boy, i get to take them down now- yeah i know how- like this'- whoosh, bam. crying breaks out.

i thought up an interesting exercise although i don't know if it would be useable in a class. basically, one person is elected or volunteers as the pusher. the pusher stands in the middle and everyone forms a line and one at a time, move towards the pusher and the pusher pushes each person on their shoulder and the goal is to escape the push by pulling back ones shoulder at the right time. the pusher is encourages to really put his body into it, so he practically loses his balance every time. if he succeeds with a fast one and pushes someone, it's also not that great of a success but possibly a good learning experience for the one pushed-if it's not too hard.
what do you think of my drill? ok? i think it gets the point across well.
it's kindof a lose lose situation for the one that's pushing- i have to admit though ive never tested this out so i cant know if there are any major flaws in this idea.








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