Teacher Who Let Students "Vote Out" 5 y.o. with Asperger's Syndrome Gets Job Back

Ken Morgan

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Phht. The teachers are making excuses for one of their own, Oh its the schools fault, because it just cant be hers.

Gimmie a break. She should have been fired and charged. Period.

You do not, ever put a five year old through that kind of emotional humiliation regardless as to what they have done. Any adult, particularly a teacher should have know better.

Fire the witch.
 

shesulsa

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"I don't necessarily agree with what Mrs. Portillo did that day," she added. "But I can understand it."

Really? I can't. Shame as discipline for a social developmentlly affected child? Maybe she needs to take a year or three off and take some sensitivity training and maybe a class or two on Aspergers and its other autism-related disorders ... you know, since there's one in almost every class now.
 
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Carol

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But not, "I'm sorry."

Pax,

Chris


Aye. And I read that and thought that I hope they find the help they need too, because they sure aren't going to find it in that school disctrict.

No child left behind, unless the teacher just doesn't wanna deal with 'em.
 

LuckyKBoxer

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I am sure the more compasionate amongst us look at this and say what a poor child.

I look at the other 15 students and teacher and say what a shame they all have to deal with this pain in the *** kid, because the parents and administration has deemed it better for him to be amongst all the other kids, when it is better for the other 15 kids to not have him there disrupting their learning, and wasting their time.

I feel sorry for the kid, but putting the pressure of accepting his behavior due to his syndrome is horrible to put on the other kids and teacher.
 

shesulsa

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No child left behind ... except this kid ... and thousands more like him.

I guess it's no big deal until it hits home.

I think it's going to be a century or more before the herd learns to help out and encourage the young.
 

LuckyKBoxer

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Noone said anything about leave him behind, thats you wanting to feel superior and wanting to try to instill guilt in others.

The fact is my father has been a teacher for 38 years, longest by far in his districts history, has continously shown the highest percentage increase in grade level increase in skills from beginning of year to end of year for the entire system.

These kids they are shoving into normal classrooms, to integrate and give these kids a more normalized atmosphere is causing great harm and detriment to the other students in the classroom. Incredible amounts of time are spent dealing with, and containing these kids rather then teaching other kids. This is a relatively new occurance. Most teachers are completely against it, infuriated by it, and leaving the public school system to private schools to get away from it.
These kids do not belong in a normal classroom, wasting the other students time.
Oh BTW my dad had 34 kids in his class, 4 of these project kids, the amount of time wasted on these 4 was astronomical.
Like I said the way we have changed things, and continue to change things does nothing to drive people to excell. Students that excell are left to their own devices as they are"priveledged" and the needy few are demanded to be given more attention.
Hello Mediocre States of America.....Goodbye the Land of Opportunity...unless of course you are one of the few that are weak, disabled, or otherwise unfortunate that can hold the rest of the country hostage to your demands.
 

LuckyKBoxer

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It sounds horrible out of context.
I think that more likely then not there is alot more to the story then was written, especially considering the lady still has her job.
I imagine from what I have read that the kid was a constant source of disruptions to everyone in the class, and I can only assume that the teacher was at the end of the options she could exercise and possibly tried to see if "peer pressure" might solve the problem.

We can only speculate on what happened, but I am going to give the benefit of the doubt with the teacher in this situation, as It appears nothing was done to help her deal with a problem child, and she was actively seeking solutions. Could it have been handled better?? Possibly noone here knows.
Could it have been painful for that boy to be voted out? Probably..
was it painful for every other student in that class to deal with constant interruptions? Absolutely. So whats the worst case there?
 

arnisador

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This couldn't possibly have been the right solution. If she needed to complain to her bosses about needing more help or to have the child removed, she should have.
 

LuckyKBoxer

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Um she did, multiple times. Nothing changed, nothing had worked. A little creative attempt at curbing the problem is what this was in my view of the matter. I mean seriously the teacher basically had the other kids in class tell this kid what they thought of his behavior, told him they wanted him to stop it, and then voted to give the kid a "time out" he was made to stand outside the classroom at the door..... what is actually so bad about that?
The Principals of these schools don't care, they tell the teachers to deal with the problems, they give the teachers hell if they send a disruptive student to the office for counseling or discipline. If you think the administration at these schools is there to help the teachers you are mistaken big time.
 

shesulsa

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Um she did, multiple times. Nothing changed, nothing had worked. A little creative attempt at curbing the problem is what this was in my view of the matter. I mean seriously the teacher basically had the other kids in class tell this kid what they thought of his behavior, told him they wanted him to stop it, and then voted to give the kid a "time out" he was made to stand outside the classroom at the door..... what is actually so bad about that?
The Principals of these schools don't care, they tell the teachers to deal with the problems, they give the teachers hell if they send a disruptive student to the office for counseling or discipline. If you think the administration at these schools is there to help the teachers you are mistaken big time.

What you probably are not familiar with is IDEA - the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act - which is a federal law that states all persons of school age are entitled to a free and appropriate education.

While a monumental move forward in the education of special needs persons, there are many problems with IDEA as well - the most notable among them likely is the lack of funding to accompany the law.

Here's what goes down, oftentimes, especially when a child is so young:

Someone convinces school and/or district administrators that the child needs to be evaluated for special needs. The special education administrator from the child's neighborhood school will invite the parents to a conference and ask their permission to evaluate the child for special needs consideration. If the parents do not consent, the school cannot evaluate and the child (as well as the teacher and classmates) become trapped. Usually, in that case, the teacher will ask for a TA or in-class assistant and they are usually denied, as the first portion of any district budget to get cut (behind music and arts of course) is the TA and special education portion.

But ... voting a child out of a classroom is not only NOT the answer, it can permanently damage this child psychologically and THAT, friend, is a much deeper wound for that child than any frustration level will ever harm any healthy child. Complete rejection and humiliation at such a young age almost always brings about the most severe of consequences.

Most teachers have ZERO training in dealing with special needs students and usually try conventional remedies and strategies which almost never work on special needs children. Ironically, many minor changes will help the higher functioning children cope not only educationally but socially and like it or not, much of what happens in school is completely dependent upon social ability and social learning.

A rash action by this teacher. I firmly believe she needs further training and SUPPORT IN THE CLASSROOM.
 

LuckyKBoxer

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I appreciate what you are saying.
I simply disagree with having someone this distracting there in the first place.
I simply do not believe that so many kids and adults need to suffer to accomodate one kid.
I simply do not see anything wrong with giving those other students a voice in sharing their feelings with the problem child.
I simply do not see anything wrong with trying a different approach to a solution when the standard approach had obviously not worked in any capacity at that point.
You will not be able to change my mind, I have a feeling I wont be able to change yours. Thats fine, I have first hand experience with these situations, I think its a huge part of the problem why America is going downhill at a disgustingly scary rate.
I never said the kid did not have a right to an education, I never said he did not have the right to be in school. I just think that after a certain point he needs to be removed from the classroom. If he can get his act together elsewhere then maybe he can return, but this is not working for anyone, and to only point blame at the teacher or other students is just wrong.

Oh ya and using any decree, or law, or anything having to do with our existing education system is a joke. Our Education system is so broken in the United States its not even funny, the entire thing needs to completely scrapped and redone from the bottom up. The people in charge of our education system need to be executed or expatriated and we need to get new people who are competant in place.... I am not talking about the teachers... even though some of them are horrible too, I am talking about the government people, the district people, the administration people, etc. Its such an outdated, misplaced, misunderstood hodgepodge of contradicting policies and selfish programs put together to milk money from the kids to the greedy fatcats. It does not teach people how to be self sufficient, it teachs them little more then to go find a job working for someone else and being a part of a machine..
 

shesulsa

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I'm not trying to change your mind.

Just pointing out the error in her actions, trying to enlighten as to the process and what happens with it.

I don't disagree that the system is broken ... I just see a value in people like this child where you apparently do not.
 

celtic_crippler

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Some children need special attention and should be given it, but not at the expense of those that do not require it because it is not fair to them nor fair to society as a whole.

Exceptional children should be encouraged to be exceptional. To hold them back educationaly and developmentally hinders their potential and the potential good they could contribute to society as adults.

That being said, I feel this teacher was way out of line and extrememly insensitive to this child's needs and feelings. Doesn't qualify as child abuse? My *** it doesn't! That child will be haunted by that ordeal for life most likely. There's no telling what damage was done to his developing self-esteem and ego. She has no business teaching children exhibiting behavior like that IMHO.

If the child was being disruptive to the class it should have been proplerly addressed with superiors and parents. Of course, continueing counter-productive legislation doesn't help our educational system either. Bottom line: our Educational System needs tons of work and it ain't getting any better.

You'd think something that has such a wide ranging and lasting impact on our society such as education would be given more consideration and support, but it rarely is. Boggles the mind...:idunno:
 

shesulsa

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If the child was being disruptive to the class it should have been proplerly addressed with superiors and parents.

She definitely should have received in-class support and for the administration to ignore/reject it was misguided and wrong.

You'd think something that has such a wide ranging and lasting impact on our society such as education would be given more consideration and support, but it rarely is. Boggles the mind...:idunno:

Indeed. :asian:

It should be said that some slight alterations to conventions and involving the classmates through fostering compassion and tolerance, such a situation *can be* transformed into quite the opportunity and increase learning in unaffected children. Now this can't always be the case, of course ... but teaching inclusion can be much more productive for all involved.
 

LuckyKBoxer

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I'm not trying to change your mind.

Just pointing out the error in her actions, trying to enlighten as to the process and what happens with it.

I don't disagree that the system is broken ... I just see a value in people like this child where you apparently do not.

If you want to get mean and nasty and try to insinuate something have some spine and go ahead and say it.

First of all I never said this kid had no value, please feel free to go back and find anywhere in my posts that I said that.
See thats a problem with people like you, instead of addressing the comments I actually said and evaluating whether they make sense or not, you immediately want to demonize the teacher and anyone who might support in anyway what happened.
The syndrome this kid is possibly being diagnosed with....last I heard he had not been diagnosed... is the same syndrome that many people people believe that some of the brightest in our history may have had... Einstein anyone? I simply said that a continuously disruptive person, regardless of which end of the spectrum they may reside in when it comes to worth, or intelligence, etc. should not be in a class screwing up the process for 16 other kids..... kids mess up occasionally, thats not the issue, this kid was constant. Constant interuptions and problems is not good for the other students and the teacher.... can you not agree with that?

Lets try to deal with the actual comments I made and not try to make me look like a bad guy because you want to make some obscure point and use the classic liberal tactic of villainizing anyone who disagrees with you.
Hey I guess it works though...
The Democratic party used it very successfully the last election..
I guess most people just listen to who sounds the most compassionate, not who actually makes sound common sense...... and yes this last part was a bit of a dig, after a few such digs from you I guess I had one coming. So the question I am really curious about how you address is...
Why do the other 16 kids and teacher have to put up with this behavior and disruptions to their education?
 

Tez3

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16 five year olds in one class, wow, no wonder they had trouble!!

LuckKboxer, do you drink an huge amount of coffee? thats some astringent posting!
 

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