I always have some concern with the WC Tan Shou. You turn your left parm facing up to block your opponent's punch.
If you
- want to grab your opponent's arm, you have to rotate your left hand 270 degree clockwise. If your left Tan Shou faces to your right, you only need to rotate your left hand 180 degree clockwise to grab your opponent's arm.
- left Tan shou faces to your right, it's just like a vertical punch with finger tips. When you train your vertical punch, you also train Tan Shou at the same time.
- want to change your Tan Shou into comb hair, your don't have to rotate your hand. It's much faster.
- train hand washing, you have to use both vertical hands.
Some people may say that the palm up Tan Shou can be used to pull your opponent's arm with the outside wrist area. But the control won't be as good as your last 3 fingers.
So your left Tan Shou can be replaced by a left spear fingers with your left palm faced to your right.
View attachment 29581
His right Tan Shou has palm facing left.
View attachment 29582
Brother is correct about me asking about the gerk (foot), not sao (hand) but I'd still love to toss in my opinion on this if it might help.
In my opinion, you are over-complicating it and not going back to fundamentals. The bottom picture, which you seem to prefer, is, in my opinion, an example of how the master is showing how a poor tan can get you hit. Look where the student's hand is and look where the master's fist is.
Furthermore, in a real actual fight, I don't suggest standing in the "Ip Man" stance (though I have seen high level guys do it and dominate). This is more Hollywood and is essentially chi sao posturing. In a real fight, you don't want to posture first and as Sifu says, Wing Chun is about using your opponent's commitment as an invitation to immediately go on the attack.
Now back to basics. Think Siu Lim Tao and how many different times the tan sao is used (many don't realize the 2nd movement when you bring your arms up, you go through a crossed-over double tan, even if not full range).
As for your point.
If you:
- want to grab your opponent's arm, you have to rotate your left hand 270 degree clockwise. If your left Tan Shou faces to your right, you only need to rotate your left hand 180 degree clockwise to grab your opponent's arm.
* The tan sao is not a posture, it is a movement. A letter in the alphabet of Wing Chun that is used to form words and if needed, sentences. Quite frankly, if your tan sao hand faces right, then that is probably more a double woo sao (if there is such a thing) than a tan sao.
As for grabbing an opponents arm, which arm? How is the arm coming? Furthermore, if you ARE going to grab an opponent's arm then you should properly learn how to do a lop sao. Remember what comes right after the first tan sao in SLT? When your palm faces up you are neutral and therefore, can do a huen sao around the opponent's punching arm as you deflect it with the tan sao and properly get the lop sao in, with your thumb on the inside of their arm and your others fingers on the outside. You could even do a huen sao the other way to trap hi arm then come across with an elbow.
Also, the last thing you'd want to do is a biu jee (darting fingers) with your palms facing the side. It's just a really bad move that could get you an easy broken finger. Remember SLT, after the bong sao, you go back into a tan sao and then...push the bottom of your palm in an upward motion. That's a strike. Also remember that you could go from a tan sao to a shovel hand to the throat very easily with just a simple wrist turn. Or, just rotate your arm 180 and go for a bil sao.
The hand is not used to deflect, it's the forearm, whether a tan sao or bil sao.
I mean these are just ideas, concepts you could do from a tan sao but if you want to see some awesome application of the tan sao, check this out, from Adam Chan.
This master Wong, but honestly, he shows very simple and effective use of the tan sao to deflect and if you look where his hands end up at the end, it would not be difficult to do a huen sao, come around his arm with your hand into a proper lop sao (where your thumb should be on the inside). You'd probably be better served to deflect with the tan then move straight in with a punch or elbow as opposed to trying a lop sao (like above). Just my opinion.
Just look at the still above. Why deal with worrying about a grab when your opponent is twisted and you can just moe in and strike him in any way. Hope that helps.
