taiji and kenpo

marlon

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The tracey brothers, a kenpo family, claim to have a 'secret' more direct transmission of the yang form. they even claim to have been taught my master Tung and that they impressed him with their large frame form that they had learned previously...has anyone heard of these things? secret elbow strikes and a hdden gift in the cross hands...
www.yangchengfu.org


respectfully,
Marlon
 

grydth

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I studied at one of these kenpo schools in Massachuesetts from 1977 to 1980. I never heard anyone there make or mention such a claim then. There was no pretext at offering any kind of Tai Chi. I had never heard this before reading your post.
 

Xue Sheng

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The tracey brothers, a kenpo family, claim to have a 'secret' more direct transmission of the yang form. they even claim to have been taught my master Tung and that they impressed him with their large frame form that they had learned previously...has anyone heard of these things? secret elbow strikes and a hdden gift in the cross hands...
www.yangchengfu.org


respectfully,
Marlon

My first thought is not exactly acceptable for posting on MT, it would likely be filtered, so let me just say I find it highly unlikely that in a year they would learn much if anything form Shiyi Tung since he himself, in his book, said it takes at least 6 years of fulltime study to understand the forms.

[And let me say.....THERE ARE NO SECRETS HERE!!!! :soapbox:

Ok I feel better now, there elbow strikes in Yang style and it is not a secret. I can show you 2 in block perry punch...oh wait but then I might be giving away secrets :rolleyes:....

Oh and there is a lot of Qinna in the fast form of Tung Ying Jie too...DAMN!!!! [/COLOR]There I go again giving away secrets :uhohh: give me a break :rolleyes:

But you have to admit it is a nice sales pitch.

Karate + Taiji does not equal Taiji.
 

Flying Crane

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Ok. Tracy Kenpo has adopted Tai Chi Chuan into the curriculum. The history of how and when that happened, and from whom they learned is something that I do not know. I read that article, and to be honest, I often have trouble keeping all the names of old, dead Chinese masters straight in my head, so it just doesn't sink in.

I have not learned Tai Chi in the kenpo curriculum, so I cannot make any comment nor judgement on what is being taught. I have learned tai chi from a Chinese-American Sifu, so that is my frame of reference, altho the bulk of my training has been in Chen style, with very little in Yang.

This particular article belongs to Will Tracy, one of the three brothers. Will has, I believe, mostly separated from the Tracy Kenpo organization, which is headed by Al Tracy. I believe there is still some connection between them (they are brothers, after all), but it is my understanding that Will is not any kind of official spokesperson for Tracy Kenpo.

Now, I cannot comment on Will's experience with tai chi. I wasn't there, I certainly don't know his teachers, nor have I ever met Will himself, to experience that which he writes about. So take it for what it is: it's his perspective on things (much like we ourselvesl have about just about everything). Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong, I don't know and I don't care. He was one of the very early participants in kenpo having studied with Mr. Parker in th 1950s and having received his Shodan from William Chow. A lot of people don't like what he has to say about things, especially where Mr. Parker is concerned. That's fine, it's just his perspective. If you find that his writings bug ya, then don't read them. If you chose to read them, take them with as much salt as you feel is appropriate.

Will Tracy's writings have been discussed at length here on MT. I hope this doesn't go down that road again, 'cause it ain't worth it.

But to get back on topic, yes, Tai Chi Chuan is part of Tracy Kenpo. If/when I learn that aspect of our art, it will be interesting for me to compare and contrast it to the tai chi that I already practice.
 

Jim Hanna

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Well, when you speak of Tracy's Kenpo today you are speaking about Al Tracy, not Will. Will Tracy is no longer physically capable of teaching Kenpo, although he teaches Tai Chi.

His Tai Chi Chuan is different from what most of us know that adhere to Al Tracy's curriculum. We do the Cheng Man Ching short form--at least that is what Al Tracy promotes.

Also, we do it for health/life--not self defense. We do kenpo for self defense.

Secret tai chi moves etc are really a non issue in the Tracy's curriculum.

Jim
 
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We do the Cheng Man Ching short form--at least that is what Al Tracy promotes.

Also, we do it for health/life--not self defense. We do kenpo for self defense.

Hi Jim,

That's about the same story I heard from Al, a couple of times over the years.

What I find interesting are the "stories" others put out about people without any type of verification process, or Clarity Model (i.e., the Meta-Model) being used.

I'm glad some still have calibration skills and use them before saying something they may later regret.

It must be the Law Enforcement training.

Anyway, the moves in Tai Chi are for people that have a totally different mind set and energy level, then those that normally do Kenpo Karate.

Or they have a reason they can no longer do the more vigorous Kenpo, i.e., Will Tracy and his injuries.

Sincerely,
Dr. John M. La Tourrette
 

Jim Hanna

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Hi Jim,

That's about the same story I heard from Al, a couple of times over the years.

What I find interesting are the "stories" others put out about people without any type of verification process, or Clarity Model (i.e., the Meta-Model) being used.

I'm glad some still have calibration skills and use them before saying something they may later regret.

It must be the Law Enforcement training.

Anyway, the moves in Tai Chi are for people that have a totally different mind set and energy level, then those that normally do Kenpo Karate.

Or they have a reason they can no longer do the more vigorous Kenpo, i.e., Will Tracy and his injuries.

Sincerely,
Dr. John M. La Tourrette

The different mind set and energy level between Tai Chi and Kenpo, for me, originate at the feet. When I move my feet in kenpo it is with violent intent. When I move my feet in Tai Chi, I am understanding the earth.

Two completely different mind sets and energy levels--and yet strangely synergistic.

Jim
 
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The different mind set and energy level between Tai Chi and Kenpo, for me, originate at the feet. When I move my feet in kenpo it is with violent intent. When I move my feet in Tai Chi, I am understanding the earth.

Haha.

You are just younger than I am.

I never move with violent intent with my feet.

I use them to balance on now.

And I use violent intent with my hands and closing gap.

Just kidding.

I eat salads now, not meat.

You did bring up a great point, the tai chi centering skills and intention drills that can be learned, and then added to the kenpo.

Which is probably different than you are referencing.

Dr. John M. La Tourrette
 
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