Taekwondo curriculum content and teaching methodology

[Daniel Sullivan]

Everyone seems to focus on the organizations, but I am more curious as to what the differences are between individual schools. Two people in the same organization may have radically different approaches to how and what they teach.

So with that in mind,

If you are an instructor:

• what type/org taekwondo do you teach and what do your classes look like?
• What is your curriculum like?
• Do you use programs like masters clubs and black belt clubs?
• Do you charge for belt tests, and if so, do the costs escalate as you progress?
• If you charge more than the organization's fee, what do your students get in return for the difference?
• Do you promote children to first dan and issue them a black belt?
• If you are KKW, do you put black belts on pum students?
• Do you have a weapons program, and if so, where did it come from and what does it consist of?
• Do you teach hoshinsul, and if so, where did that come from?
• Have you grafted on elements of other arts? If so, what arts and elements?

If you are not an instructor:

• Can you answer the same questions about where you train?
• What are your thoughts on the program?

Not looking to do a good/bad, better/worse, superior/inferior contrast between methodologies or curriculums, but more of a 'this is what I do and this is why I do it' so that we can see how similar and how different we are, even within the same organization. If you run a McDojo and your answer as to why you do it is that it pays the mortgage and feeds your family, then that is perfectly acceptable. Not looking to make any value judgements.


If you cannot participate without 'calling BS' on anything that you don't like, then find another thread. If you strongly disagree with a practice and feel obliged to say so, please speak articulately and explain intelligently why you disagree with it, rather than giving middle school level insults.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Everyone seems to focus on the organizations, but I am more curious as to what the differences are between individual schools. Two people in the same organization may have radically different approaches to how and what they teach.

So with that in mind,

If you are an instructor:

• what type/org taekwondo do you teach and what do your classes look like?

It's Kukkiwon, but it is distinctly our own and still has ITF-like elements left over from GM Park. BB's are all KKW certified.

• What is your curriculum like?

Foundation is kicks and solid basic striking abilities, building from there. Standard Taekwondo I guess.

• Do you use programs like masters clubs and black belt clubs?

I don't personally. Our other school does.

• Do you charge for belt tests, and if so, do the costs escalate as you progress?

Yes and yes. By $10 a belt or something like that.

• If you charge more than the organization's fee, what do your students get in return for the difference?

Generally a free seminar before the grading. It's the main school's fee not mine.

• Do you promote children to first dan and issue them a black belt?

Pum grades only. Through Kukkiwon.

• If you are KKW, do you put black belts on pum students?

Nope.

• Do you have a weapons program, and if so, where did it come from and what does it consist of?

Yes. Sais, Nunchaku, staff, sword. I'm terrible at weapons.

• Do you teach hoshinsul, and if so, where did that come from?

Yup. Hapkido is the official answer although I suspect Jujitsu and Judo as well.

• Have you grafted on elements of other arts? If so, what arts and elements?

See above. I also teach Judo falling skills and a couple of easy footsweeps.



If you are not an instructor:

• Can you answer the same questions about where you train?
• What are your thoughts on the program?

Not looking to do a good/bad, better/worse, superior/inferior contrast between methodologies or curriculums, but more of a 'this is what I do and this is why I do it' so that we can see how similar and how different we are, even within the same organization. If you run a McDojo and your answer as to why you do it is that it pays the mortgage and feeds your family, then that is perfectly acceptable. Not looking to make any value judgements.


If you cannot participate without 'calling BS' on anything that you don't like, then find another thread. If you strongly disagree with a practice and feel obliged to say so, please speak articulately and explain intelligently why you disagree with it, rather than giving middle school level insults.

Here ya go.

 

[andyjeffries]

what type/org taekwondo do you teach and what do your classes look like?

Very simple, Kukki-Taekwondo. Classes are for an hour (children) and are generally 15 minutes warm-up, 15 minutes on basics/poomsae(2), 15 minutes on sparring/drills(3), 10 minutes on other stuff (self-defence, paddle-work, (4)) and a 5 minute cooldown. Sometimes I'll mix it up and it'll be more of one of 2/3/4 and less of the others (or omitted), but I would say that breakdown is fairly typical.

What is your curriculum like?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/478290/Fairlands/syllabus.pdf

This is the grading requirements for each level. My students are all very junior at the moment, so I haven't tested/refined the higher levels yet, but I thought I'd put it out there.

Also, in case anyone cares, the information I give to new starters is - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/478290/Fairlands/New Starter Information.pdf

Do you use programs like masters clubs and black belt clubs?

No. I feel these may be useful at commercial clubs and I don't think down on them for doing it, but I'm a small club instructor - I'm not in it to make money, I'm there to help children learn a martial art and grow as people. For example I charge £2.50 (approx $4) for the training session, whereas most clubs in the nearby area (martial arts, football, dancing, etc) are all charging in the £5 area.

Do you charge for belt tests, and if so, do the costs escalate as you progress?

I charge £7 (about $10) for a coloured belt/tag test. These are every 6 months and include a certificate and tag or belt. These costs are fixed, all gup tests are the same price.

I will be charging more when my students reach poom/dan status, but I haven't decided how much yet. I'd like it to be enough to include a KKW certificate and an embroidered belt (I guess about £100 or $150 equivalent), but I'll see how it's going at the time as to whether the students can afford that. The minimum will be the Kukkiwon fee, that's important enough to me that it's mandatory (therefore poom/dan gradings will increase in cost).

If you charge more than the organization's fee, what do your students get in return for the difference?

My organisation doesn't charge a fee for gup ranks. I charge a minimal fee so that the club makes a little profit.

Do you promote children to first dan and issue them a black belt?

I will (as I said, none of my students are there yet) promote them to poom ranks and issue them with a half-red/half-black belt. If they decided to get their own belt (see above about potentially reducing the fee) then they will not be allowed to wear a full black belt until 15.

If you are KKW, do you put black belts on pum students?

No, as above.

Do you have a weapons program, and if so, where did it come from and what does it consist of?

No.

Do you teach hoshinsul, and if so, where did that come from?

I teach hoshinsool as part of the Taekwondo training, it comes from my knowledge of hoshinsool from Taekwondo (that I have been taught by my Grandmaster and instructor, neither of him hold ranking in Hapkido or anything similar).

Have you grafted on elements of other arts? If so, what arts and elements?

Later on I may throw in some basic groundwork that I've learnt from BJJ, but not yet and not 100% definite that I'll do this. If I do, it would be just considered part of my Taekwondo rather than advertising it as BJJ.

If you are not an instructor: What are your thoughts on the program?

Although I am, I just thought I'd say that I'm seriously considering putting a small survey in to the parents hands so I can try to get a better feeling for the reasons why students train with me and their feelings on the program. If I do it and it gives anything interesting, I'll post the results.

 

[MAist25]

1. What type/org taekwondo do you teach and what do your classes look like?
A. We teach traditional Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do as well as Kukki Taekwondo. Certified through Kukkiwon and the United States Taekwondo Association through the guidance of GM Richard Chun

2. What is your curriculum like?
A. Our curriculum is pretty much based solely off of GM Chun's curriculum. We do conditioning, pad work, bag work, line drills, forms, self defense, 1 steps, 3 steps, sparring, etc. Our dojang does not look like your typical Taekwondo dojang, which is why I love it.

3. Do you use programs like masters clubs and black belt clubs?
A. No clubs.

4. Do you charge for belt tests, and if so, do the costs escalate as you progress?
A. No belt fees other than the Dan ranks and we only charge what is costs for certification. We do not profit at all from promotions.

5. If you charge more than the organization's fee, what do your students get in return for the difference?
A. We don't charge a penny more than what our organizations' require.

6. Do you promote children to first dan and issue them a black belt?
A. It depends. Students can choose to receive certification through KKW, the USTA, or both. The USTA does issue Dan ranks to children, the Kukkiwon does not.

7. Do you promote children to first dan and issue them a black belt?
A. Like I said, it depends. But yes, children wear black belts.

8. If you are KKW, do you put black belts on pum students?
A. Yes.

9. Do you have a weapons program, and if so, where did it come from and what does it consist of?
A. Yes, we do. We do not certify anybody separately in any weapons system but we train in Arnis de Mano (Lanada System).

10. Do you teach hoshinsul, and if so, where did that come from?
A. Yes we do. Our traditional self defense techniques come from GM Chun's curriculum, but we also train in Hapkido under the guidance of GM J.R. West.

11. Have you grafted on elements of other arts? If so, what arts and elements?
A. Yes, we are willing to learn from whoever has something to teach. I have previous training in Jeet Kune Do Concepts, Muay Thai, and Judo so I bring some of those elements to our school. We have also had Judo black belts come in and teach classes, as well as a Silat Suffian Bela Diri practitioner. Our doors are always open!

 

[SahBumNimRush]

what type/org taekwondo do you teach and what do your classes look like?

Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo.

What is your curriculum like?

Our typical class consists of mixed age and rank, and general curriculum consists of warm up, floor exercise, technique drills, hyungs, 1 step sparing/hoshinsul, free sparring. I generally attempt to coordinate key elements in each section of class.

Do you use programs like masters clubs and black belt clubs?

No, we have a flat membership fee that allows you to come to all rank/age appropriate classes.

Do you charge for belt tests, and if so, do the costs escalate as you progress?

All promotion examinations are done at the main school (not my branch school), and yes there are exam fees (flat charge for all gup ranks, higher charges for all dan ranks)

If you charge more than the organization's fee, what do your students get in return for the difference?

N/A

Do you promote children to first dan and issue them a black belt?

Yes, but no BB under age of 11.

Do you have a weapons program, and if so, where did it come from and what does it consist of?

Yes, at BB, you may begin learning the Jang Bong (long staff). The curriculum comes from my teacher(s). Consists of learning basic movements, basic forms, and stick to stick drills, not common to spar, as we do not have the safety equipment.

Do you teach hoshinsul, and if so, where did that come from?

Yes, again, comes from my teachers(s). Consists of defense from all attacks (kicks, hand strikes, grabs, chokes, knife attacks, other weapons, etc.) Some is practiced in a 1 step sparring fashion, others are free style. At black belt, we begin knife sparring. The key purpose of our hoshinsul is to develop quick, efficient and effective defenses, they are not flashy (unless preparing for a demonstration, then the focus is shifted to crowd pleasing).

Have you grafted on elements of other arts? If so, what arts and elements?

In a way yes, and in a way no; My instructor did, and so have I. Our philosophy is that once you have a solid foundation, adapt anything that works from anything else you have been exposed to your knowledge of Taekwondo. For my instructor that primarily consisted of Yoshukai and Judo. For me it is elements of Shorei ryu, Shotokan, pukulan silat, bando, wing chun, white crane kung fu, jujutsu, and hapkido. What I mean by this is that I have friends that practice other arts, and we have worked out together and shared techniques. I have adopted what works for me (that also fits with our technical philosophy) from what I have learned. Sometimes it is merely a different variation of a technique I already practice, sometimes it is a new technique, and other times it is an entirely new concept. Anytime I introduce something like this to my class, it is something that I have practiced extensively with my friends in other arts, so that I am proficient in its application. I also give credit to where the technique comes from.

**Also, the incorporated techniques mainly come in the form of SD oriented techs for the gups, and more focused techniques/principles for bb's (since they have a firm foundation in our core curriculum).**

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Do you have a weapons program, and if so, where did it come from and what does it consist of?

Yes. Sais, Nunchaku, staff, sword. I'm terrible at weapons.

Sounds very similar to the school where I used to train. What does your swordwork consist of and where did you learn it?

 

[ETinCYQX]

Sounds very similar to the school where I used to train. What does your swordwork consist of and where did you learn it?

I couldn't tell you, and I have yet to learn much of it. It's BB up and I haven't done much training myself lately. I will find out though.

EDIT: It is kata based and we don't do any weapons sparring. I don't really know a thing about sword arts, but I suspect it's lifted out of another martial art as-is to be honest but I'm not sure, I couldn't hazard a guess as to which one.

 

[dancingalone]

Everyone seems to focus on the organizations, but I am more curious as to what the differences are between individual schools. Two people in the same organization may have radically different approaches to how and what they teach.

Good thread. I hope everyone can stay on track and we can have a productive discussion and perhaps even get some ideas from each other.

what type/org taekwondo do you teach and what do your classes look like?

My commercial school is a KKW curriculum school. It has one hour classes with a quick five minute warm up and then they go right into line drills, paddle work and kicking partner held shields. This takes up most of the hour, but then last 15 minutes is spent on poomsae or sparring. I plan to change this up, possibly increasing the class length for the adult classes to 1.5 hours and making a lot of other gradual material changes.

What is your curriculum like?
I want to add hogu drills and include substantially more depth with the forms and then additional material based upon the forms including one/three steps and hosinsul. Sparring will need more structure too. Right now, it's kind of a sink or swim thing and natural aggression is rewarded over technique and good footwork.

Do you use programs like masters clubs and black belt clubs?
No, but there is a slighter higher fee to attend unlimited classes versus only three, so perhaps some of the elements of a BBC is there. I am thinking about going with a one fee, all you can eat structure.

Do you charge for belt tests, and if so, do the costs escalate as you progress?
Previously there was a $50 fee for all belt exams under BB. I have discontinued this practice as soon I took ownership of the dojang as I have never agreed with the idea of belt test fees.

There is a $250 fee for BB tests. I see this practice continuing as I prefer to bring in high ranking/credible martial artists for judging panels and I want to compensate them for their time in some small measure. This will likely be IN ADDITION to any KKW fees for dan registration unfortunately, and likewise those too will need to be paid for by the students if they desire KKW certification.

If you charge more than the organization's fee, what do your students get in return for the difference?
I'm changing my answer a little here. They get high quality judging from the guest judges brought in.

I imagine when we test the next batch of BB candidates and if some of them elect to obtain KKW certification, the school will charge them whatever it costs and no more, aside from the judging fee already mentioned. I am not a KKW master so we'd be going through the previous dojang owner and he might charge an additional convenience fee, but I don't think he would add on much.

Do you promote children to first dan and issue them a black belt?
Yes. The school will promote kids as young as 10, which is earlier than I would prefer, but as it is a pre-existing practice from before I bought the school, I suppose I must roll with it.

If you are KKW, do you put black belts on pum students?
The kids only hold house certificates and they wear regular black belts. I'd prefer to go the poom route, but again this would be changing the rules midstream.

Do you have a weapons program, and if so, where did it come from and what does it consist of?
Not currently. I do plan to introduce a formal Okinawan kobudo program later on where authentic instruction in Taira lineage kobudo will be offered. We'll probably offer ranking in this though traditionally there was no such thing. At a minimum instruction in bo, tonfa, and sai will be offered. Maybe nunchaku and eku too perhaps.

Do you teach hoshinsul, and if so, where did that come from?
Yes, I see this as a major addition and asset to our school. I have a large set of formal techniques attached to the Chang Hon forms that I devised through my understanding of karate bunkai along with studies in aikido and judo. I am looking for common points within the KKW poomsae where I can adapt the same library of applications as additional study for the poomsae.

Have you grafted on elements of other arts? If so, what arts and elements?
As mentioned above, there will be influences from karate, aikido, and judo. With the possible exception of aikido, I really don't think the other two are stretches at all to include within the study of TKD, given the training background many of the kwan-era TKD practitioners had.

This and the kobudo mentioned above.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I couldn't tell you, and I have yet to learn much of it. It's BB up and I haven't done much training myself lately. I will find out though.

EDIT: It is kata based and we don't do any weapons sparring. I don't really know a thing about sword arts, but I suspect it's lifted out of another martial art as-is to be honest but I'm not sure, I couldn't hazard a guess as to which one.

What type of sword is used and what is the nature of the kata? Is it drawing and cutting or lenthier patterns performed on one's own or is it two person kata (kumitachi)?

 

[andyjeffries]

Good thread. I hope everyone can stay on track and we can have a productive discussion and perhaps even get some ideas from each other.

Definitely, I have some things I'd like to discuss from your answers.

My commercial school is a KKW curriculum school. It has one hour classes with a quick five minute warm up and then they go right into line drills, paddle work and kicking partner held shields.

Interesting that for the same length class, I do a 15 minute warm-up but you only do 5 minutes. I'd like to get my warm-up time down, but already I feel that I'm cutting it really short. By the time body temperatures are raised and all joints are rotated warm, we don't have long for stretching (although we do a lot of dynamic stretches during the warm-up), so it's a couple of quick stretches and on.

Could you give a break down of what you do in those 5 minutes?

Do you consider the line drills/paddle work part of the warmup (i.e. do you tell students to take it easy and build up, or is it straight in full speed).

Previously there was a $50 fee for all belt exams under BB. I have discontinued this practice as soon I took ownership of the dojang as I have never agreed with the idea of belt test fees.

We were never charged for gup tests when I was coming up through the gup ranks. However, most other clubs in the area seem to do it so I decided to charge a small fee that includes the certificate and belt (and includes the training fee for that time too, so that the hall fees are covered). My wife also tends to bring down some biscuits/cakes/drink for the kids to mini-celebrate straight afterwards. I don't want to charge a lot nor do I want to be out of pocket for it. Hopefully you'll agree my fee is fairly nominal.

I would have never had an issue with paying for a test/promotion, so didn't have any second thoughts when I decided to do it. I also feel that students often value more that which they've had to pay for and earn. That's why I don't want to promote people for free, nor do I want to do it as just an aside during training "oh by the way, here's a new belt".

However, it's never about me earning a fortune (as you can see from the amounts I charge, I'm not retiring and buying a mercedes from my club's profits any time soon).

So, hopefully that explains my opinion and therefore, out of interest, what's your reason for never agreeing with belt tests?

 

[dancingalone]

Interesting that for the same length class, I do a 15 minute warm-up but you only do 5 minutes. I'd like to get my warm-up time down, but already I feel that I'm cutting it really short. By the time body temperatures are raised and all joints are rotated warm, we don't have long for stretching (although we do a lot of dynamic stretches during the warm-up), so it's a couple of quick stretches and on.

Could you give a break down of what you do in those 5 minutes?

It is probably too short. I'm used to running 1.5-2 hour classes in my home karate dojo, and we definitely had a much longer warm up. I even threw in some calisthenics and plyometric exercises like burpees while we were doing our line basics.

The 5 minute warmup consists of jumping jacks, pushups, running in place or fake jump ropes, arm/neck/leg twists, and some dynamic stretching.

Do you consider the line drills/paddle work part of the warmup (i.e. do you tell students to take it easy and build up, or is it straight in full speed).

We do start off lightly but ramp up rather quickly.

We were never charged for gup tests when I was coming up through the gup ranks. However, most other clubs in the area seem to do it so I decided to charge a small fee that includes the certificate and belt (and includes the training fee for that time too, so that the hall fees are covered). My wife also tends to bring down some biscuits/cakes/drink for the kids to mini-celebrate straight afterwards. I don't want to charge a lot nor do I want to be out of pocket for it. Hopefully you'll agree my fee is fairly nominal.

I would have never had an issue with paying for a test/promotion, so didn't have any second thoughts when I decided to do it. I also feel that students often value more that which they've had to pay for and earn. That's why I don't want to promote people for free, nor do I want to do it as just an aside during training "oh by the way, here's a new belt".

However, it's never about me earning a fortune (as you can see from the amounts I charge, I'm not retiring and buying a mercedes from my club's profits any time soon).

So, hopefully that explains my opinion and therefore, out of interest, what's your reason for never agreeing with belt tests?

I agree 10 bucks isn't much. You certainly aren't cheating your students.

I've never liked belt tests and I believe I've mentioned the reasons why here before.

I DO award new rank from time to time without a formal test, so it seems inconsistent to charge a fee at some times and not at other times. It also keeps the financial arrangements simple, I'd rather charge a single all inclusive fee, so the student doesn't have to write extra checks for belt fees, extra seminars, etc. Most importantly, it keeps the separation clear in my mind (hopefully the students too) that there is no link between money and advancement.

 

[andyjeffries]

It is probably too short. I'm used to running 1.5-2 hour classes in my home karate dojo, and we definitely had a much longer warm up. I even threw in some calisthenics and plyometric exercises like burpees while we were doing our line basics.

The 5 minute warmup consists of jumping jacks, pushups, running in place or fake jump ropes, arm/neck/leg twists, and some dynamic stretching.

We do start off lightly but ramp up rather quickly.

Thanks for that. Maybe sometime I'll try a reduced time warm-up then use paddles to warm the students up (starting gently and building up).

I agree 10 bucks isn't much. You certainly aren't cheating your students.

I've never liked belt tests and I believe I've mentioned the reasons why here before.

I DO award new rank from time to time without a formal test, so it seems inconsistent to charge a fee at some times and not at other times. It also keeps the financial arrangements simple, I'd rather charge a single all inclusive fee, so the student doesn't have to write extra checks for belt fees, extra seminars, etc.

Both of those make sense - it is hard to sometimes charge and sometimes not; and if you're charging a monthly fee then it would get awkward to manage. I charge per session, everyone pays in cash (they could pay by cheque or even bank transfer if they wanted to pay for a whole month, but all the parents just find it easier to pay per session in cash as it's such a small amount - less than a coffee at a nearby coffee shop). So for the one session every six months when there's a belt test it's easy enough to tell them in advance that for this week it's £7 not £2.50.

Most importantly, it keeps the separation clear in my mind (hopefully the students too) that there is no link between money and advancement.

That's another fair point. I guess if I were charging what I'd consider a lot (say £30/$50), then it might muddy the waters a bit (as 20 students x £30 is a fair bit of money). I can see how that would lok like "cha-ching, it's testing time again guys".

However, for the extra £4.50 per student i get, minus the money for belts, certificate printing and post-test snacks, they must know I'm not doing it for the money. It's obviously not "time to test you so I can raise some cash".

Thanks for your answers. One of them gave me confidence to try an idea and the other cemented in my mind that what I'm doing isn't evil

 

[dancingalone]

I also wanted to add that promoting a student without a rank test can be very meaningful to students. I don't do it frequently. Only when a student is so stellar that it seems pointless to make them wait a few months to receive the recognition from me that they're doing very well indeed.

One of my black belts in karate related at one of our seminars that the event was special to him and went a far ways towards settling his self-confidence for the better. He had been going through some turmoil at home and was throwing much of his time into training as an escape of sorts, and the promotion out of nowhere made him realize he could channel his tough times into positive goals instead of moping and thinking negatively.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

If you are KKW, do you put black belts on pum students?

The kids only hold house certificates and they wear regular black belts. I'd prefer to go the poom route, but again this would be changing the rules midstream.

You could announce that you will be shifting from in house certs to KKW pum certs and that in order to conform to KKW regulations, you will be issuing the pum belts with the official certificate. Make the announcement well in advance of the next dan testing.

Or, if you have a newsletter, make the announcement there.

 

[dancingalone]

You could announce that you will be shifting from in house certs to KKW pum certs and that in order to conform to KKW regulations, you will be issuing the pum belts with the official certificate. Make the announcement well in advance of the next dan testing.

Or, if you have a newsletter, make the announcement there.

What do I do with the kiddos already wearing the regular black belt? Take it away from them and issue them a poom belt instead? I don't want to 'demote' anyone.

 

[andyjeffries]

What do I do with the kiddos already wearing the regular black belt? Take it away from them and issue them a poom belt instead? I don't want to 'demote' anyone.

I would say let them keep it. But when they want to promote to 2nd poom, they need to wear a poom belt or be stuck on their current rank. That way it's clearly stated to them that going to a poom belt isn't a demotion, it can be a promotion, it depends on the rank. Also, tell them that it's standard in Korea, the home of their art, and that all under 15s in Korea wear poom belts.

Say they can keep their black belts (you aren't taking them away), but if they want to test again, they need to wear a poom belt after that point. It's better to be an internationally certified 2nd Poom (and be standing in a more senior place in the class) than to keep their club 1st Dan dojang black belt.

Just my thoughts, but I think it's all in the phrasing.

 

[Tez3]

Thanks for that. Maybe sometime I'll try a reduced time warm-up then use paddles to warm the students up (starting gently and building up).



Both of those make sense - it is hard to sometimes charge and sometimes not; and if you're charging a monthly fee then it would get awkward to manage. I charge per session, everyone pays in cash (they could pay by cheque or even bank transfer if they wanted to pay for a whole month, but all the parents just find it easier to pay per session in cash as it's such a small amount - less than a coffee at a nearby coffee shop). So for the one session every six months when there's a belt test it's easy enough to tell them in advance that for this week it's £7 not £2.50.



That's another fair point. I guess if I were charging what I'd consider a lot (say £30/$50), then it might muddy the waters a bit (as 20 students x £30 is a fair bit of money). I can see how that would lok like "cha-ching, it's testing time again guys".

However, for the extra £4.50 per student i get, minus the money for belts, certificate printing and post-test snacks, they must know I'm not doing it for the money. It's obviously not "time to test you so I can raise some cash".

Thanks for your answers. One of them gave me confidence to try an idea and the other cemented in my mind that what I'm doing isn't evil

I have visions of you paddling all the kids to warm them up!

A lot of people have put Judo and/or Judo falls as an added extra, I always feel people should be able to 'land' properly even if they don't do Judo itself, it's so useful.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

What do I do with the kiddos already wearing the regular black belt? Take it away from them and issue them a poom belt instead? I don't want to 'demote' anyone.

No, I'd leave them in their current belts and just make it clear that you are shifting away from in house certificates to KKW certificates.

Is the current policy an two tiered system where you have junior black belts who later shift to an adult class and then test for a "real black belt" and KKW cert?

If so, just continue that policy for existing junior black belts and issue no new ones. You could also maybe offer to convert their current in house junior BBs to a KKW first pum, explaining that any pum grades they earn will automatically convert to a dan with filing of paperwork.

That way, anyone who opts to keep a solid black belt will test for their ildan just the same as before, while new pum certificates will be issued with pum belts. Those current junior BBs who opt to register (don't retest them) will move along as before, maybe getting their second or third pum along the way, and will convert upon age fifteen. If they choose to register, let them keep their current belt; just don't issue any new solid black to child students. Eventually, all grades will be uniform and at the same time, everyone's current rank is respected.

 

[andyjeffries]

I have visions of you paddling all the kids to warm them up!

I don't get it - why the smiley face? You're exactly right...

;-)

A lot of people have put Judo and/or Judo falls as an added extra, I always feel people should be able to 'land' properly even if they don't do Judo itself, it's so useful.

I kind of agree with this (and I was always taught how to breakfall - if for no other reason than take downs during 1 step sparring - but was never told it wasn't a part of TKD). However, we don't train on mats (at the moment) so I don't want them all breaking their arms trying. Maybe one day...

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I would say let them keep it. But when they want to promote to 2nd poom, they need to wear a poom belt or be stuck on their current rank. That way it's clearly stated to them that going to a poom belt isn't a demotion, it can be a promotion, it depends on the rank. Also, tell them that it's standard in Korea, the home of their art, and that all under 15s in Korea wear poom belts.

Say they can keep their black belts (you aren't taking them away), but if they want to test again, they need to wear a poom belt after that point. It's better to be an internationally certified 2nd Poom (and be standing in a more senior place in the class) than to keep their club 1st Dan dojang black belt.

Just my thoughts, but I think it's all in the phrasing.

The only real problem is that the current grades are in house. So there is no 'second pum' for them because they haven't ever been registered as a first pum.

Also, there may be some second or third degree Jr. BBs. Perhaps the KKW has a skip pum option for this situation?