Tae Kwon do Gun Disarms

[Cryozombie]

My co-workers daughter studys TKD, and just tested for her Black Stripes. As part of the test he said she had to do Gun-disarms.

I was curious about how TKD approaches Gun-disarm training, can anyone give me some examples how its done?

Thanks!

 

[Kamaria Annina]

Well in our classes, we practice inside/outside cresent kicks if we are in range. We are also taught to carefully control the gun, it being the most vital in an attack.

 

[Andrew Green]

Get a water pistol (or paintball gun) and try it, with the person shooting you if it doesn't work like you planned.

I'd imagine you'll all get rather wet...

 

[kenpochad]

I don't do TKD but I was told get in on a gun and run from a knife.
If they mad up there mind that they are going to shot you try something .

 

[Spookey]

Dear Sir,

Most realistic gun disarming techniques I have experienced all have on thing in common (other than being fool proof)...solid control of the weapon!

If the fire arm is in reach two things must happen simultaneously.

1. You must, abruptly, move yourself from the line of fire

2. You must firmly secure the weapon while moving it in the opposite direction of your body.

Once a grip is made it is necesarry to begin to attack the wrist joint (as well as the body) in order to remove the firearm from the hands of the attacker. All while paying added attention to the muzzle position!

TAEKWON!
Spookey

 

[bignick]

Well in our classes, we practice inside/outside cresent kicks if we are in range. We are also taught to carefully control the gun, it being the most vital in an attack.

How is executing a cresent kick to the gun in any way maintaining control of the weapon/weapon hand?

And I agree with Andrew, might want to practice that in a swimsuit.

We used to teach gun disarms but we've done some serious evaluation of those types of techiniques and they came to the conclusion that the disarm techniques we had been using, just like so many other schools and arts were just not up to par.

 

[bignick]

As for now. We teach running from both a gun and a knife, if possible...

 

[Cryozombie]

As for now. We teach running from both a gun and a knife, if possible...

Can you run from a gun?

I mean... BANG!

 

[Han-Mi]

tot tell the truth, a crescent kick is prolly the worst thing to do against a gun wielding stranger. Maybe a knife, but definately not a gun

We pulled our techs from other instructors. I don't know anything about traditional gun disarming, if such a thing exists.

 

[Han-Mi]

Can you run from a gun?

I mean... BANG!

A good point. i tell students to do what ever they are told unless they feel that harm will come them anyway.

 

[MJS]

tot tell the truth, a crescent kick is prolly the worst thing to do against a gun wielding stranger.

I agree! I would think that getting your body out of the line of fire and getting control of the weapon/hand would be a safe bet.

Maybe a knife, but definately not a gun

I can't speak for everyone else but I'd stay away from kicking against the knife as well.

Mike

 

[Makalakumu]

Simulation with a paintball gun will really give you a feel for what you are up against when it comes to empty hand defense against firearms. I practiced this drill with a martial arts group a few years back.

Here is what we discovered.

If the gun is not drawn, attack. Do not allow them to draw the weapon. At five feet, with a paintball gun, it is almost impossible to get the gun out, up and aimed. At ten feet, this is still very difficult without training. At 15 feet, if the attackers reflexes are average, the shooter could fire on a quick attacker.

If the gun is drawn and aimed your options are limited by distance. At five feet, one can attempt to get off line and get control of the weapon. Against a live attacker with a paintball gun, I was hit five times for ever one time I got the weapon. At 10 feet, I tried twenty five times and got the weapon once. On the other hand, I ran in a curved path and was not hit 50% of the time. At 15 feet it was impossible for me to get the gun. However, I was able to evade 50% of the time.

Running is a good defense against the gun IMO if there is no other options and the weapon is already drawn. If you run in a curved path, the shooter is going to have to lead you in order to hit. The shooter will have a higher percentage of missed shots depending on the shooter's skill.

 

[kwon 17]

An my school we learn knife disarms as well as gun disarms.My Sa bum nim tells us to only fight back in these situations unless all other options are out ther window.However, we are still taught how to approach theses situations.In gun situations we practice with water guns like others suggested and are taught how to disarms them depending on where the attacker is holding it.This can also be known as angle of attack which I believe is the foundation of gun disarms.We also practice Knife techniques and are the basics we are told are angle of attack,distance of the knife from your body and many other techniques for both situations.

 

[Cryozombie]

Running is a good defense against the gun IMO if there is no other options and the weapon is already drawn. If you run in a curved path, the shooter is going to have to lead you in order to hit. The shooter will have a higher percentage of missed shots depending on the shooter's skill.

Interesting... Ill have to give that a "shot" hehe

 

[shesulsa]

Can you run from a gun?

I mean... BANG!

Depends on how good a shot the bad guy is. If ya gotta run, run zig-zagged or not in a straight line.

 

[bignick]

Can you run from a gun?

I mean... BANG!

I'm sure an LEO can give the statisitics better than I can but the chances of you getting shot are actually slim...and even if you are shot, doesn't mean you're down and out...people get shot all the time and live.

Upnorth...sounds like you discovered the 21 foot rule. On average a person with a holstered weapons needs to be over 21 feet away from a knife wielding attacker to have time to draw and shoot before the attacker reaches them and can stab, cut, etc....

And yes, crescent kicking any incoming attack is a bad idea. A cresent kick is a pretty limited range weapon, either way....you have to be about the right distance to hit a target at a certain height, at least that's what I've discovered. I think some of this comes from the fact that sometimes crescent kicks are taught where someone will come with a punch and you will crescent kick their hand away...all well in class, but if you analyze the situation, unless you are extremely flexible, if you can crescent kick their hand, they were too far away to hit you anyways. What the kick should be doing and is simulating is a kick to the head the moment you see any sort of motion indicating attack. That requires a lot less finesse, but still a great deal of speed.

 

[FearlessFreep]

When we learned a crescent kick we talked a bit about using it against a knife but since then our SD classes against knives have not used it. I'd have to be fairly confident I could get to the wrist fast with power before I would try it (and I don't think I have that speed/power).

I wouldn't try it against a gun, too likely to go off...too likely for them to tense up, etc...

Just guessing but it seems to me that with knife disarms that if ou don't disarm them, you can still defend against the ongoing attack. For example, if I crescent kick and don't disarm the knife, I'm still standing and if he lunges, etc, then I have another defense. My feeling is that the whole purpose of a gun disam is to get the gun away before the attack, the shot, so you need to *at least* gain control of the weapon if you don't take it away. A cresent kick that misses the target or does not break the gun loose is just going to make the attacker more upset and open fire and I don't think I have a good defense for a gun shot at that range...

 

[shesulsa]

1. You must, abruptly, move yourself from the line of fire

2. You must firmly secure the weapon while moving it in the opposite direction of your body.

Once a grip is made it is necesarry to begin to attack the wrist joint (as well as the body) in order to remove the firearm from the hands of the attacker. All while paying added attention to the muzzle position!

This is close to what we do - four rules to weapons attack:

1. Clear your body from the line of attack.
2. Contain/control the weapon.
3. Disarm the attacker.
4. Neutralize the attack.

Anybody else follow this?

 

[MJS]

This is close to what we do - four rules to weapons attack:

1. Clear your body from the line of attack.
2. Contain/control the weapon.
3. Disarm the attacker.
4. Neutralize the attack.

Anybody else follow this?

Yes, my thoughts exactly!

 

[Gemini]

This is close to what we do - four rules to weapons attack:

1. Clear your body from the line of attack.
2. Contain/control the weapon.
3. Disarm the attacker.
4. Neutralize the attack.

Anybody else follow this?

Basically the same concept at my school. While practicing, one of the hardest things to get right is the transition between 2 and 3. Myself included. After controlling the weapon, they focus on disarming and tend to allow the attacker to point the barrell right back at them. Game over. Like anything else, just keep practicing.

Some interesting info on the success rate at different distances though. And I like the idea of the paint ball gun. I bet at point blank range, you'd have a real good incentive to get it right as quickly as possible.